Am I missing something? (mandarin dragonets)

[Wut]

Hey everyone,

I hope I dont come across as ignorant with this question, but It's been bugging me for a while.
Why are Dragonets regarded as difficult fish to care for? Every site I've looked at whether it be Liveaquaria, fishlore etc classifies dragonets as "difficult" to care for, only for the "expert" aquarist. The reasons for their difficulty are always the same: They need a well-established aquarium and live copepods. Ok. Every fish needs a well established aquarium. Tbh i'd be hesitant to put even a damsel in a tank that wasn't full established/cycled. As for the feeding, copepods are very easy to culture, inexpensive, and readily available from any online vendor...I get that when people say "established" with regards to mandarins they mean copepods living in the live rock, but a dragonet will go through all the cops you have in your main tank in a week unless you have a fuge. Breeding microfauna in a 10g with an air stone and some phytoplankton shouldn't give this fish an "expert" status. With that logic, couldn't I classify my F8 pufferfish as "expert"? I breed snails to feed him so he doesn't end up starving, yet puffers are usually not in that category.

I guess I don't understand how people have trouble keeping mandarins alive compared to other fish. They're actually pretty hardy, they just need some live food, no big deal.. Sorry if this seemed more like a rant than a question, I love MD's definitely my favorite marine fish it kind of sucks that they have this whole "Difficult" thing surrounding them or I think they might be more popular.

thanks

 

[Misled]

It's normally rare to get one that eats dry or frozen foods. You need a good size tank and a few tons of pods to keep them happy. I understand it's just a rant, but keeping up will get tiresome if the tank doesn't support them. They eat all day. Keep plenty of live food and you're good to go. That's the reason though.

 

[der_wille_zur_macht]

It's a fish that's easily identifiable and attractive to the general public (people who don't know better). To someone uninitiated with the hobby, culturing live food IS an intense and expert only task, compared to dumping flakes in once a day, which is what the general public probably assumes is already almost too much effort.

 

[Ron Reefman]

You answered your own question. "As for the feeding, copepods are very easy to culture, inexpensive, and readily available from any online vendor..." Easy... maybe. But it doesn't take too long and it become a PITA! I've been in the hobby 12 years and I wouldn't even consider culturing pods. And buying live pods gets pricey pretty fast.

 

[jda]

Pop populations can also crash quickly in tanks that are not totally mature or have other fish that will actively eat them like butterfiles, wrasses, etc. Sometimes the mandarins alone are enough to decimate a pop population on their own in all but the largest tanks.

 

[AZReef13]

I was very fortunate to have had a mated pair in my old 120. An you are totally right they are an amazing fish. Exspecially when one gets to see a male doing his shimmer mating dance. Mine did except some prepared food, but yes they wanted copepods. Which i was able to get plenty at my lfs. I think once more become captive breed ( ORA is one) we will find them to become ready available in a lot of home aquarium, and survive. Wut; I think the better way to approach this is to share experences in caring for them, with your tips and trick might help those that might be unsure, or feel they aren't an expert, and give them a try?

 

[MondoBongo]

Pop populations can also crash quickly in tanks that are not totally mature or have other fish that will actively eat them like butterfiles, wrasses, etc. Sometimes the mandarins alone are enough to decimate a pop population on their own in all but the largest tanks.

this ^^^

pod cultures are easy up to a point, but if you're relying on that feed a mandy and they go belly up, it takes weeks to reboot them and make them productive again.

couple that with the mandy's need to graze all day, and not doing well with discreet feedings, and there's your answer.

also, most fish don't need a well established aquarium. just a cycled one. the common fish in this hobby like clowns, most tangs, etc, etc, tend to do well on diets of prepared foods. so they don't need established populations of benthic fauna to provide their nutrition.

dragonets DO need that, hence the "established tank" requirement.

 

[ca1ore]

Watch a mandarin for a few minutes, and you'll quickly realize the numbers of pods necessary to keep one at a healthy weight. I had one for four years until my pod population crashed for unknown reasons, and it starved despite my trying to seed a new population.

 

[JimON]

Interesting stuff here. They are truly a beautiful fish. I did a little Googling and found an article on coralreefing about them, which was a good read. One thing that struck me was this quote:

"As a side note, you probably won't need to quarantine your Mandarin for any disease or illness reasons. Mandarins naturally secrete a disease-resistant oil that coats their bodies and protects them from pathogens and bacteria."

True story? If so, are there any other fish that secrete the same oils?

 

[der_wille_zur_macht]

I don't know if the oil part is true but IME mandarins are definitely more pest resistant than some other common aquarium fish.

Whether or not that leads you to decide to not QT is another question.

 

[JimON]

I don't know if the oil part is true but IME mandarins are definitely more pest resistant than some other common aquarium fish.

Whether or not that leads you to decide to not QT is another question.

Thanks. As for QT, something about discretion and valor comes to mind.:beer:

 

[der_wille_zur_macht]

QT is a personal choice. I can't remember the last time I QT'd a fish (it's probably been 15+ years) except for a very few specific cases where there was clearly an issue. I also can't remember the last time I lost a fish to disease or parasite. I don't think I ever have, actually.

Instead of QT, I try to plan carefully when and how I add fish, and only get them from known good sources. Less work for me, less stress on the fish, I'm supporting good businesses and/or other hobbyists; everyone wins. We drill it in to newbs that they shouldn't ever put fish in a new, sterile, unestablished tank, and then we basically tell them to do exactly that in a quarantine tank, and try to pass it off as beneficial. I don't get it, honestly.

But we don't need to derail this thread. Mandarins are beautiful, I'm happy that ORA and others are breeding and hopefully we will reach a point where captive bred fish that are taking prepared food are the norm, and everyone can reclassify this species as the OP seems to be suggesting. I agree with Ron that the "expert" rating is appropriate, for the majority of Mandarins. I've cultured food in the past. It's a fun experiment, but I don't think I'd ever want to depend on it to keep a fish alive. That said, I plan on eventually getting a Mandarin for my 24g cube, as soon as I can find an established individual who's eagerly taking prepared food.

 

[JimON]

That is an interesting take on the QT, and yes you are right, it does not make sense when you put it that way.

Agreed, let's not derail the thread. I just thought it was interesting about their oils, and wondered if there were others.

 

[djbon]

Established tank with tons of rocks with thousands hidden, small and interwoven holes for live foods to multiply safely is just what you need to support mandies. Remote pods hotel/condo is another option for those with minimal rocks setup. As long as the pods have foods, a place to hide and multiply, maintaining a healthy Mandy is easy.

 

[MondoBongo]

one other thing that i like to point out is that the timelines given also tend to factor in a bit of inexperience on the part of the keeper.

i know within the first year i had my tank i made a lot mistakes that could have ultimately ended in death for a more sensitive fish like a dragonet, either directly or indirectly like by wiping out its food supply.

so it's important to keep in mind that those guidelines take in to account more than just a food source in most cases.

 

[heathlindner25]

My Mandy eats pellets.

 

[heathlindner25]

March 31, 2014

 

[static916]

Its just to scare away people that want a simple answer to a simple question. Everything in the hobby really has rather complicated answers. So they're labeled expert to keep away people that really don't know better or haven't done the research on the fish.

 

[heathlindner25]

He is in a 40 breeder ,no sump, eats pellets. That picture was just taken

 

[AZReef13]

Good looking Mandy