Amino acids...

Randy15

New member
Has anyone ever tried dosing AA? I've been reading a little into it and have been considering giving it a shot for my SPS and LPS tank. Im looking to see if anyone has any first hand experience. Please let me know of any positive or negative results you've had long term or short. Thanks :)
 
I've never tried it, but I do have a degree in Biochemistry, have worked in biochemistry and molecular biology labs for the last 7 years, and am currently an MD/PhD student working in a protein engineering lab, so me and amino acids are best friends :).

So, amino acids are just the building blocks of proteins, which we know proteins will obtain from food and even synthesize de-novo from nitrogenous waste products like nitrates. So, at best it would be roughly equivalent to feeding your tank assuming your corals would absorb them from the water, which I'm not so sure they do. So you may just be spending money and adding nutrients for no good reason.

Also, your protein skimmer is tailor made to remove molecules like amino acids from your water (small, greasy, charged, defiantly would love to stick to a bubble surface), so if you wanted to maintain any reasonable level of them in your system you would have to forgo running your skimmer.

In short, I wouldn't do it.
 
Thanks. Great info! Def not going run out tomorrow and buy a bottle and dump it in lol. I'm just in the beginning stages of research. Anyone else have any input/experience?
 
To add on to this high quality AA for corals is generally expensive. Dosing them i couldn't imagine giving u positive results but spot feeding them to 2/3 select corals i could see adding a benefit but for the average person its not worth it. If the goal is to feed your corals then id suggest pouring some coral food into your tank. (at night after lights out is the best time). Just be sure not to over dose since algae blooms could result if u feed corals too much. Personally for sps i feed coral frezy some times i spot feed other times i just put a pinch of it into my tank. Lps i rarely target feed dont have a good recommendation on that end of the spectrum.Like everything else in this hobby take it slow :)
 
I've fed coral frenzy and rotifeast in the past with minimal noticeable difference (if any). The best thing to target feed LPS is brine shrimp, mysis, or even krill if its mouth is large enough. Just looking to see if there's anything that really benefits the SPS other than the basics: stable calcium, mag, and Alk, low nitrate/ phosphates, good light and flow.
 
Blanden, awesome post!

Randy, for SPS, of the things you listed, stability is the key and the most difficult to maintain. As your corals grow, the demand increases. The doses and settings that kept the ship stable now may be inadequate in 3 months. It's the game we all enjoy.

Long story short, save your $. Focus on maintenance and testing.
 
As mentioned above amino acids make up proteins and coral "color" is made in part by protein. By adding more aa to water does not really mean that coral will be sucking it out of water. Some may disagree and has not been proven. My info on this is at least 5 years old so may be wrong.

I dosed a tank directly with liquid AA some years ago. Couple aquarium brands as well as lab grade. And researched effects of specific amino acids on corals. Overall found minimal results. I began adding aa to foods I feed the reef tank, hoping that particles loaded with it will be consumed and deliver more than what the food containes initially.
 
In ULNS system I think aminoacids is a "must",besides the food,Corals would be very thankful.

This has been popularized by the zeovit folks. Nutrients are so low that coral zooxanthalle is starving and making the coral more transparent and bleached. So aminio acid may help build more protein pigment to protect coral from sun. This is why the corals are so pasty. Delivering aa via food would cause nutrient build up so the approach is to dose ingredients for color.

I ran this type of system for a bit and have seen it work, or so I thought. But many times it didn't and corals just bleached out. I now avoid keeping my tanks at 0 po4.
 
Hmmm. Adding extra AA to food your already feeding, that's an interesting idea. And the reason I would use AA is for color, any added growth would be a bonus.
 
Jmo

Jmo

when trying to "color up" SPS most people make the mistake of thinking something needs to be added rather than subtracted.

my three word recommendation for coloring up SPS:

regular water changes
 
I've tried amaino acid supplements a few times over the years with no noticeable effect. There are abut 17 of them ,IIRC, and corals are very capable of synthesizing most of them on their own from proteins .If I were going to try it again I might try aspartic acid since it's not clear if corals can synthesize that and it can be obtained from health food stores inexpensively.
When running very low to no nitrate systems,some folks worry about a nitrogen deficiency and adding amminos will bring in nitrogen as will extra food . Most of us try to reduce nitrogen in fed tanks and deficiencies are highly unlikely.
 
There is no direct relationship between amino acids and color as far as I know. Where did you hear that?
To illustrate Gary's point, the extra nitrogen some of which will go to nitrate as the amminos breaks down , will more likely lead to coral browning as it drives zooxanthelae growth( all zooxanthelae is brown) sometimes to levels that produce oxygen radicals that harm the coral.

As noted, skimming will remove some of them as most are amphipathic( charged one way on one end and the opposite on another) and readily trapped in the air water interface between the bubbles.

In my opinion ,all in all they don't have much to do with color but can be useful in anemic tanks with over reduced nutrients,not a likely ocurrence unless you don't feed, keep fish and use heavy organic carbon dosing .

Clear water, the right lighting ,flow , very stable in range parameters( salinity, temperature, ph, alkalinity,calcium, magnesium, etc) , nutreint management,proper feeding and regular water changes do very well by color and health . Just adding ammino acids without a specific purpose simply adds more crap to what might be an already foul tasting mulligan stew but it sounds cool and will lighten your wallet .
 
Delivering aa via food would cause nutrient build up so the approach is to dose ingredients for color.

I've never dosed AA before, but if I were to try it, this is the route that I would take. Think of it like gut loading rotifers or brine shrimp, or soaking food in selcon/selco for fish.
 
Thanks Tom for the great info. I've read about people dosing the AA in a few of the SPS threads and was curious as to what all you guys thought about it since I respect all the collective experience and knowledge we have here in our upstate club. My SPS isn't "brown" but doesn't necessarily look as vibrant as I feel it could. I keep my sal at 35ppm, cal 450, Alk 8.2, mag 1500, nitrates are unreadable, phosphates are <.04, vortech NTM flow, 2 month old 250w Radiums on for 8hrs at a time, blue LEDs on for 12, ASM G3 on what I'd have to guess is about 115g of water mass. I feed frozen to about 12 fish once daily. I carbon dose 5ml vodka daily. And run a reactor with BRS reg GFO/ROX mix. 20% water change is done EVERY 2 weeks with reef crystals. Is there anywhere you see I could improve what I'm doing or should I just concentrate on stability? Just trying to get the most out of what I have. I love playing around and improving so any input is appreciated. Thanks
 
I like the color I get with hamilton 14ks and xm 15ks better than what I get with the radiums on sps. I also like the phoenix 14 k. I also like vho actinics . But those are really eye of the beholder things.
I dose a mix of vodka and vinegar that would equate to 6.5 ml of vodka for 115 gallons but I feed 2x per day quite heavily.

I have also dropped gfo out of the mix over the last 2 months and now maintain PO4 at <.03ppm without it.

Here's a secret that goes a little contrary to most respected opinion.I like to dose a little iron maganese( 5 ml per day for the 600 gallons) and a little iodide( 3ml per day for the 600 gallons) particularly since the bacteria from organic carbon dosing and the granulated activated carbon use up some iodine and the macro algae(chaetomorpha) I keep likes the iron. My system runs lowvs. nsw vaules on both of these supplements per red sea tests. I've been dosing these daily for the last few months and colors seem a little richer but it's a subjective and tank specific thing.

I also like to feed some Coral Frenzy once every one to two weeks particularly to zoanthidae but it flows around to the sps too.

I'm fierce about stability particulary alkalinity and sg. I do daily 1% water changes to keep ionic balances steady and to ensure a steady stream of trace elements but I think weekly is very good.
If your nitrates are truly 0 ,you may find adding a little nitrogen via AAs or other phosphate free source will help knock down the PO4 a little more. Aspartic acidmay be a good choice. Note amminos also contain organic carbon which should be accounted for in our overall vodka, vinegar,etc dosecalulation. Nitrate in my tanks runs around 0.2ppm.
The bacteria encouraged by organic carbon dosing consume organic carbon , nitrogen and phosphorous in relatively the same ratios as they come in with foods, in the nieghborhood of 116 parts organic carbon to 16 parts nitrogen and 1 part inorganic phosphate( aka PO4). But then these bacteria also engage in anaerobic respiration once they exhaust free oxygen in a given area even in their mulm. When they do this they use up more nitrogen by stripping nitrate NO3 of the O leaving free N which binds with another free N to from N2 nitrogen gas which bubbles out. Thus the organic carbon dosing process is skewed toward using more nitrogen than phosphorous vis a vie what foods would typically provide.
 
I actualy run a se phoenix bulb on my corner tank and am also happy with it. So I understand the iodide but not the iron. I thought too much iron turned your corals green? or is it just for the macro? i have also tryed marcro in the past but was choked out when i began carbon dosing (along with any othe algae i had). how would I be able to determine wether certain aminos contain organic carbon and how much? I like how you explained the organic carbon bacteria purpose/process, makes alot of reading simplified lol.
 
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