Anemone Dominated Breeding Grounds.... The Journey Has Begun
- Thread starter Tmoriarty
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Tmoriarty
New member
Awe they are just little bitty specs!
Lol, yah they are pretty small, they are between 2 and 4 mm when born (so under a half a centimeter)
Tmoriarty
New member
Update:
2 DPH
15-20 babies remain, all healthy and swimming in the column eating well. Tommorow I will start them on oto A to try to wean them off of the rotifers and slowly get them prepped for meta, the big hurtle. Everything I have read and been told leads me to believe meta is the big issue, if they are healthy going into it, there is more of a chance they come through it well.
Most of the losses from the last 2 days have been fry I honestly didn't see making it anyways, hanging on the bottom not doing well from the start (a good portion before they were even removed from the DT).
Overall I am happy with having 15-20 fry remaining and hope to keep that number through meta, while its not a ton I am happy to just see some little guys swimming around in there.
2 DPH
15-20 babies remain, all healthy and swimming in the column eating well. Tommorow I will start them on oto A to try to wean them off of the rotifers and slowly get them prepped for meta, the big hurtle. Everything I have read and been told leads me to believe meta is the big issue, if they are healthy going into it, there is more of a chance they come through it well.
Most of the losses from the last 2 days have been fry I honestly didn't see making it anyways, hanging on the bottom not doing well from the start (a good portion before they were even removed from the DT).
Overall I am happy with having 15-20 fry remaining and hope to keep that number through meta, while its not a ton I am happy to just see some little guys swimming around in there.
Tmoriarty
New member
Update:
3 DPH
15-20 Fry are still doing good.
I did figure out a few important things to do, on both the rotifers cultures and the fry tank. I was adding in the rotigrow+ straight to the fry tank and the cultures to tint the water, what I noticed with this is that it seems to clump up a little and not disperse. In the fry tank I had some that just went straight to the bottom and sat there stagnant. I know that is not good to help keep ammonia levels down so I now mix in the amount of rotigrow+ I am going to use into a small cup of the tank water, then pour it through out the tank. I notice this way it mixes evenly and doesn't create as much potential for water fouling.
For my rotifers I am almost restarting them once every two weeks. I use a 1/4 inch hard drip line and just siphon out 1 gallon into a new batch of salt water mixed at 1.018. I do one of my cultures one week and the other culture the next week. That way if one crashes I can restart it with the other culture on the water change (one gallon into one bucket another into a second bucket). This allows me to only get the rotifers and not any of the built up gunk on the bottom. I have considered sieving out the remaining water to get the rotifers but until I have more fry going I do not need to do this.
Another issue I saw (from reading Mikes information) is that adding the rotifers to the fry tank can bump the ammonia. To prevent this I run a cup of clean salt water over them then add them to the tank. While this hatch has been quite small I have not had any problem so far with ammonia (patch still reads nothing).
Its like Mike said, on small hatches its almost like having a third roti culture going, just keep the water tinted to maintain the rotifer population. Everything so far seems to be going ok, I was worried about sucking the fry out through a drip line (1/4" hard line) but in the end it didn't seem to be that brutal on them. The avoidance of the hassle of trying to gather them in a cup made it much more worthwhile, even if I lost a few because of it.
Heres to hopping I get a fast Meta and start to see stripes within the next week.
3 DPH
15-20 Fry are still doing good.
I did figure out a few important things to do, on both the rotifers cultures and the fry tank. I was adding in the rotigrow+ straight to the fry tank and the cultures to tint the water, what I noticed with this is that it seems to clump up a little and not disperse. In the fry tank I had some that just went straight to the bottom and sat there stagnant. I know that is not good to help keep ammonia levels down so I now mix in the amount of rotigrow+ I am going to use into a small cup of the tank water, then pour it through out the tank. I notice this way it mixes evenly and doesn't create as much potential for water fouling.
For my rotifers I am almost restarting them once every two weeks. I use a 1/4 inch hard drip line and just siphon out 1 gallon into a new batch of salt water mixed at 1.018. I do one of my cultures one week and the other culture the next week. That way if one crashes I can restart it with the other culture on the water change (one gallon into one bucket another into a second bucket). This allows me to only get the rotifers and not any of the built up gunk on the bottom. I have considered sieving out the remaining water to get the rotifers but until I have more fry going I do not need to do this.
Another issue I saw (from reading Mikes information) is that adding the rotifers to the fry tank can bump the ammonia. To prevent this I run a cup of clean salt water over them then add them to the tank. While this hatch has been quite small I have not had any problem so far with ammonia (patch still reads nothing).
Its like Mike said, on small hatches its almost like having a third roti culture going, just keep the water tinted to maintain the rotifer population. Everything so far seems to be going ok, I was worried about sucking the fry out through a drip line (1/4" hard line) but in the end it didn't seem to be that brutal on them. The avoidance of the hassle of trying to gather them in a cup made it much more worthwhile, even if I lost a few because of it.
Heres to hopping I get a fast Meta and start to see stripes within the next week.
Tmoriarty
New member
Update:
4 DPH
Baby clowns were started on oto last night, heres to hopping for a fast meta. I did not notice any losses last night and stil see around 15-20 babies. I need to either get a tile in the tank or build a DIY Larvae catcher to perhaps catch more of the babies the next time, speaking of which.
1 DPS
Looks like clock work, they laid again tonight, nest is roughly the same size as last night. If the pattern continues they will hatch out at 9 DPS or 10 DPS. Thats what I will plan for this go around. Not completly sure if I want to try to raise them or not yet (I do have an extra tank but need another heater and air pump).
My wife gets to decide that, but I think she has taken a liking to the babies, she is after all the one who named Eins
4 DPH
Baby clowns were started on oto last night, heres to hopping for a fast meta. I did not notice any losses last night and stil see around 15-20 babies. I need to either get a tile in the tank or build a DIY Larvae catcher to perhaps catch more of the babies the next time, speaking of which.
1 DPS
Looks like clock work, they laid again tonight, nest is roughly the same size as last night. If the pattern continues they will hatch out at 9 DPS or 10 DPS. Thats what I will plan for this go around. Not completly sure if I want to try to raise them or not yet (I do have an extra tank but need another heater and air pump).
My wife gets to decide that, but I think she has taken a liking to the babies, she is after all the one who named Eins
frankthtank51
New member
Keep posting this is great stuff. And getting me excited and joping my clown spawm!!!!!!!
Tmoriarty
New member
Update:
5 DPH
Still 15-20 remain. They are getting quite a bit larger, and fast. I believe they are hitting the otohime A which I am now feeding twice a day. I will try to post up new pictures of the little buggers tommorow.
I removed 2 gallons of water and sieved it to remove the rotifers, rotifer population had increased to around 80 PML. To prevent over competition with the fry for oxygen I removed a large portion of them. I put the seived water back in the tank (did not drip just added it back in quickly) Hopefully this didn't cause any issues, Ill know when I get home.
I have yet to perform a water change, but I wan't to wait until the fish have gone through meta to perform water changes. As long as my ammonia remains in the yellow I will avoid doing water changes to help maintain stability.
As for the frequency of spawns, depending on the pair and tank conditions it varies, Maroons can spawn as fast as every 6 days with hatches every 5 days. Some Ocellaris pairs spawn faster than mine at around 10-12 days with hatches often on day 7/8. A lot of things factor into spawn speeds including tank temperature.
The good thing about fast spawns, is if I mess up I know I get another shot pretty quickly.
I have contacted someone who makes Fish larvae traps and will be using them to catch future hatches. I had considered using a tile but the rock they are on has to many nice spots to lay batches on and there is a good chance they will ignore it. I figure it is easier to use a larvae trap, and thus eliminate the need to stay up waiting for the hatch.
If I had them hatching on a tile and the babies went to long I may lose them with the lack of aereation, I figure this way I have a better chance to get more fry through the initial hatch.
5 DPH
Still 15-20 remain. They are getting quite a bit larger, and fast. I believe they are hitting the otohime A which I am now feeding twice a day. I will try to post up new pictures of the little buggers tommorow.
I removed 2 gallons of water and sieved it to remove the rotifers, rotifer population had increased to around 80 PML. To prevent over competition with the fry for oxygen I removed a large portion of them. I put the seived water back in the tank (did not drip just added it back in quickly) Hopefully this didn't cause any issues, Ill know when I get home.
I have yet to perform a water change, but I wan't to wait until the fish have gone through meta to perform water changes. As long as my ammonia remains in the yellow I will avoid doing water changes to help maintain stability.
As for the frequency of spawns, depending on the pair and tank conditions it varies, Maroons can spawn as fast as every 6 days with hatches every 5 days. Some Ocellaris pairs spawn faster than mine at around 10-12 days with hatches often on day 7/8. A lot of things factor into spawn speeds including tank temperature.
The good thing about fast spawns, is if I mess up I know I get another shot pretty quickly.
I have contacted someone who makes Fish larvae traps and will be using them to catch future hatches. I had considered using a tile but the rock they are on has to many nice spots to lay batches on and there is a good chance they will ignore it. I figure it is easier to use a larvae trap, and thus eliminate the need to stay up waiting for the hatch.
If I had them hatching on a tile and the babies went to long I may lose them with the lack of aereation, I figure this way I have a better chance to get more fry through the initial hatch.
Redhaloangel
New member
do you have any more recent pictures of the babies growing?
Tmoriarty
New member
Yah Im a slacker, have a video from a few days ago I need to upload. It looks like the largest fry (Most likely the one who hatched a day early) is or has gone through meta. No head stripe yet but he is starting to use his caudal fin like a fish rather than darting around like a fry.
The larger fry are definately hunting now, and are feeding on the oto. There is a few fry who still look to only be around 4 DPH even though today is now 7 DPH. I will however give them plenty of time to grow up and get through meta, unless they take significantly to long.
I will try to upload a video tommorow of the fish at their current state (pictures are hard to get of the fry, they are quite quick. But I may try to get a few)
The larger fry are definately hunting now, and are feeding on the oto. There is a few fry who still look to only be around 4 DPH even though today is now 7 DPH. I will however give them plenty of time to grow up and get through meta, unless they take significantly to long.
I will try to upload a video tommorow of the fish at their current state (pictures are hard to get of the fry, they are quite quick. But I may try to get a few)
Tmoriarty
New member
Update:
10 DPH
Not much to report other than the babies are growing fast. I performed a waterchange on day 7 of 2 gallons (40%), I removed the water using a 1/4 inch hard line. I used it to suction most of the stuff off the bottom and clean up the tank a little. I returned the water to the tank using Water from my reef tank (PH/Temp already matched). I added a little fresh RODI to the new water to decrease salnity to match the fry tank.
Normally I know this water is dripped in but with the parameters matching I felt ok running a steady stream through a 1/4 inch line would be sufficient. I did heat the tip of the line and pinched it semi closed to slow the flow slighting. In total it took around 15 minutes to return 2 gallons of water to the fry tank. I suffered no losses and have had the same amount of fry since day 2 (17 is the count).
I do believe most of the fry are through meta and swimming like little fish rather than fry (I will make a new video hopefully tonight/tommorow), they do not have their head stripes yet but I can see some orange side pigment comming in as well as increased body height and size by a comparative amount.
There are however a few stragglers (2/3) that do not look like they have advanced as fast as their brothers. They still look pre-meta, so for now I will continue to keep rotifers in the water (until day 15). Other than the few stragglers everyone is confirmed eating Oto A, and have been for a few days at least (I believe the stragglers are eating it as well).
I have been keeping the rotifer population lower to increase oxygen rates, I wish to remove the possibility of flared gills in the fry if possible and have heard this is caused by decreased oxygen levels in the tank, especially through meta.
Other than that everything is looking good and hopefully I will start seeing stripes in the next couple days.
Here is a video from 6 DPH, just prior to the fish going through Meta, pardon the poor quality.
10 DPH
Not much to report other than the babies are growing fast. I performed a waterchange on day 7 of 2 gallons (40%), I removed the water using a 1/4 inch hard line. I used it to suction most of the stuff off the bottom and clean up the tank a little. I returned the water to the tank using Water from my reef tank (PH/Temp already matched). I added a little fresh RODI to the new water to decrease salnity to match the fry tank.
Normally I know this water is dripped in but with the parameters matching I felt ok running a steady stream through a 1/4 inch line would be sufficient. I did heat the tip of the line and pinched it semi closed to slow the flow slighting. In total it took around 15 minutes to return 2 gallons of water to the fry tank. I suffered no losses and have had the same amount of fry since day 2 (17 is the count).
I do believe most of the fry are through meta and swimming like little fish rather than fry (I will make a new video hopefully tonight/tommorow), they do not have their head stripes yet but I can see some orange side pigment comming in as well as increased body height and size by a comparative amount.
There are however a few stragglers (2/3) that do not look like they have advanced as fast as their brothers. They still look pre-meta, so for now I will continue to keep rotifers in the water (until day 15). Other than the few stragglers everyone is confirmed eating Oto A, and have been for a few days at least (I believe the stragglers are eating it as well).
I have been keeping the rotifer population lower to increase oxygen rates, I wish to remove the possibility of flared gills in the fry if possible and have heard this is caused by decreased oxygen levels in the tank, especially through meta.
Other than that everything is looking good and hopefully I will start seeing stripes in the next couple days.
Here is a video from 6 DPH, just prior to the fish going through Meta, pardon the poor quality.
Tmoriarty
New member
Since the previous video was old, I am uploading pictures from a few minutes ago, these are the fry at 10 DPH. I am also uploading a video. Pardon the poor video and picture skills, the lighting isn't the best to take video or pictures with at this point.
And a video
<iframe width="853" height="480" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/dx_eetOaGGI" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>
And a video
<iframe width="853" height="480" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/dx_eetOaGGI" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>
Tmoriarty
New member
Update:
12 DPH
Hopping to start seeing some stripes when I get home tonight. The clownfish mostly all look good and healthy (there are a couple still struggling a bit). I have removed the blacked out side on the front and the tape that was blocking out the light. They arn't dive bombing so thats a good sign
They are all eating Oto, I can see them darting around whenever I put it into the tank. Right now I am feeding up to 4 times a day (very little amounts). I will stop adding rotifers in the next day or two and do a full switch to Oto (I still see them hitting rotifers so I figured a mixed food source for now is good).
9 DPS
New babies should hatch out here in a couple days. I do think I want to raise this clutch as well, if the wife gives me the go ahead I will grow out the new fry as well. I have considered adding a partition to a twenty gallon and using it for various stages of larvae. I would love to see 100+ babies in a growout, I know the clutches will get stronger as the parents lay more batches.
12 DPH
Hopping to start seeing some stripes when I get home tonight. The clownfish mostly all look good and healthy (there are a couple still struggling a bit). I have removed the blacked out side on the front and the tape that was blocking out the light. They arn't dive bombing so thats a good sign
They are all eating Oto, I can see them darting around whenever I put it into the tank. Right now I am feeding up to 4 times a day (very little amounts). I will stop adding rotifers in the next day or two and do a full switch to Oto (I still see them hitting rotifers so I figured a mixed food source for now is good).
9 DPS
New babies should hatch out here in a couple days. I do think I want to raise this clutch as well, if the wife gives me the go ahead I will grow out the new fry as well. I have considered adding a partition to a twenty gallon and using it for various stages of larvae. I would love to see 100+ babies in a growout, I know the clutches will get stronger as the parents lay more batches.
Tmoriarty
New member
Update:
1 DPH
The good news is that last night was a much better hatch, had around 150 babies hatch out last night. The bad news is that I was not truely ready to raise this hatch and have them in a 5g bucket with heater and airstone, and the transfer was rough, lost around 75-100 in the first 15 hours. I am hopping most is well now and I should not lose many more after day 2 (if the pattern is the same as the last hatch).
The older juveniles from spawn 2 are doing great, still no stripes but they are growing very fast. There is some bickering going on in the tank and the final count is 14 juveniles (one which may need to be culled due to jaw issues).
What is any update without pictures from last nights hatch, and a couple videos as well.
Close up of a new fry:
Swarm of fry on the surface:
Stragglers on the bottom:
Final catch:
And of course some videos, first video is of the fry prior to catching them in the tank. While using a siphon line is very fast I feel the stress is causing some losses. I am willing to accept the losses for now until I get them laying on a tile and can reduce that added stress level.
<iframe width="640" height="360" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/-hAS-iENOcw" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>
Here is a video of them in the bucket, for now this is their final home, until they are ready to be mixed in with the older juveniles.
<iframe width="640" height="360" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/lubzVWGESCo" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>
1 DPH
The good news is that last night was a much better hatch, had around 150 babies hatch out last night. The bad news is that I was not truely ready to raise this hatch and have them in a 5g bucket with heater and airstone, and the transfer was rough, lost around 75-100 in the first 15 hours. I am hopping most is well now and I should not lose many more after day 2 (if the pattern is the same as the last hatch).
The older juveniles from spawn 2 are doing great, still no stripes but they are growing very fast. There is some bickering going on in the tank and the final count is 14 juveniles (one which may need to be culled due to jaw issues).
What is any update without pictures from last nights hatch, and a couple videos as well.
Close up of a new fry:
Swarm of fry on the surface:
Stragglers on the bottom:
Final catch:
And of course some videos, first video is of the fry prior to catching them in the tank. While using a siphon line is very fast I feel the stress is causing some losses. I am willing to accept the losses for now until I get them laying on a tile and can reduce that added stress level.
<iframe width="640" height="360" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/-hAS-iENOcw" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>
Here is a video of them in the bucket, for now this is their final home, until they are ready to be mixed in with the older juveniles.
<iframe width="640" height="360" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/lubzVWGESCo" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>
Tmoriarty
New member
Update:
Spawn 2 19 DPH
These guys are doing great. Almost all of them have their first stripe in pretty solid and are eating only OtoA at this point. They are very active and there is some bickering going on. I am in the process of removing the Eel from my 55g where the fish will go in about 15 more days for growout. The tank has been up and running for almost 2 years, so other then a good cleaning it is fully cycled and a perfect fit for juveniles. I will most likely be adding BTA's to the tank in order to acclimate the new babies to anemones and get them use to associating with the non natural host. This way any home they go to they will be more likely to associate with BTA's which is the most commonly kept hosting anemone.
Spawn 3 6 DPH
Can't believe these guys are at 6 days. Well I ended up loosing almost all of them in the first 36 hours, mostly I think this was due to the heater only running at 78 or so, that combined with the transfer method and I ended up with some very high loss rates. I have 4 or 5 of the fry remaining. Since they are in a bucket and I am feeding the other guys anyways I will continue to feed these fry in the hopes they make it through meta as well.
There is another large spawn on the rocks that I will be raisining most likely as well. They are due to hatch out in I believe 7 days, so by then I will try to have Spawn 2 moved to a new location so Spawn 4 can have a proper fry tank.
I will try to update with a video in the next day or two. Showing the size and coloration of the largest juveniles. They are definately on to smooth sailing and raising them from this point is pretty easy going, as long as nothing major happens they should all see adult hood.
I still plan on adding a large number of juveniles to my display tank, but I have not decided which batch will be going in. I wan't to wait until I can pick a few from a hatch and sell of the rest instead of picking from a smaller hatch.
I am hopping that as the parents get better at it and feedings are increased, the fry will be healthier and will make it further through the process. I can't wait to see 100+ fry in the growout all swimming together.
Spawn 2 19 DPH
These guys are doing great. Almost all of them have their first stripe in pretty solid and are eating only OtoA at this point. They are very active and there is some bickering going on. I am in the process of removing the Eel from my 55g where the fish will go in about 15 more days for growout. The tank has been up and running for almost 2 years, so other then a good cleaning it is fully cycled and a perfect fit for juveniles. I will most likely be adding BTA's to the tank in order to acclimate the new babies to anemones and get them use to associating with the non natural host. This way any home they go to they will be more likely to associate with BTA's which is the most commonly kept hosting anemone.
Spawn 3 6 DPH
Can't believe these guys are at 6 days. Well I ended up loosing almost all of them in the first 36 hours, mostly I think this was due to the heater only running at 78 or so, that combined with the transfer method and I ended up with some very high loss rates. I have 4 or 5 of the fry remaining. Since they are in a bucket and I am feeding the other guys anyways I will continue to feed these fry in the hopes they make it through meta as well.
There is another large spawn on the rocks that I will be raisining most likely as well. They are due to hatch out in I believe 7 days, so by then I will try to have Spawn 2 moved to a new location so Spawn 4 can have a proper fry tank.
I will try to update with a video in the next day or two. Showing the size and coloration of the largest juveniles. They are definately on to smooth sailing and raising them from this point is pretty easy going, as long as nothing major happens they should all see adult hood.
I still plan on adding a large number of juveniles to my display tank, but I have not decided which batch will be going in. I wan't to wait until I can pick a few from a hatch and sell of the rest instead of picking from a smaller hatch.
I am hopping that as the parents get better at it and feedings are increased, the fry will be healthier and will make it further through the process. I can't wait to see 100+ fry in the growout all swimming together.
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