(Another) DIY LED Build - Linear Design

[specialreef]

:thumbsup:.:mtool:

 

[1Snapple]

hey, back to my pico, could i try 1 CW and 2 RB and 1 red LED? run it with a MW driver?
and if that isn't enough do 4 Rb 2 CW and 2 reds?

 

[1Snapple]

the CW would be XP-G, royal blue XP-E, and red XP-C all work w/ 1 driver?

 

[katchupoy]

hey katchupboy would you do me a huge favor and draw up a 3d model of my lighting? with 60 optics on the RB and 80 optics on the CW.
It will help a ton.
RB CW RB
RB CW RB. (only doing 1 row of 3 first, then 6 if it feel the need for 6)
Spaced 2 inches from the end of the aluminum and 4 inches apart.
Thanks a ton.

Im so sorry, been busy with work...

Here you go. I dont know the dimensions of a 3g pico so I assumed.
Why not just buy a par38 and save you the trouble?

Pay attention to the overlap (light outside the tank). So making them closer would be advisable.

1Snapple; Let me suggest this.

Get a big enough heatsink for 6 LEDs.

Buy a XP-G white.
Buy 2 XP-E royal blues.

Design a six LED pattern that will mix the light sufficiently when only half stuffed.

Mount your 3 LEDs appropriately and wire them in series. Get our typical 1 ohm resistor and install it in series with them all.

Now get an adjustable resistor.
This one:
http://search.digikey.com/scripts/DkSearch/dksus.dll?Detail&name=AVT25-10-ND

Grab a 12VDC power supply that puts out an amp or 2.

Hook it up thru the adjustable resistor above.

To re-cap.

12VDC supply(+) -> 1 ohm resistor -> adjustable resistor -> LED -> LED -> LED -> 12VDC (-)

Adjust the resistor up to it's maximum resistance/length.

Power it up.

Measure the voltage across the 1 ohm resistor. The voltage you read is exactly the current. It will be something like 0.1A.

Adjust the adjustable resistor shorter until you reach the perceived brightness you had with the old fixture.

Measure the current and jot it down in a log.

Leave it that way for some days. Watch your zoas and see what they think.

Then every month you can up the current 10% until you like it or the zoas cry 'STOP'.

If you top out at an amp and it's not bright enough you add another set of three LEDs hooked up exactly the same way. They will be entirely independent.

I would not hesitate to switch to more interesting and controllable LEDs.

Im with Kcress here. If you can find some cheap regulated 12 volts power supply, this might do the trick. I believe, the meanwell drivers are minimum of 8 for the dimmable ones. I wonder if you can use variable voltage power supply, the ones with 3, 6, 9, 12 and adjust it to dim the LED's? Would this work Kcress? Is this what means by forward voltage? if its less than the requirement, it will not light up?

Hope this help Snapple.

 

[katchupoy]

1. I'm doing 72 emitters (48 RB, 24 CW), so the easiest would be to do 6 MWs on 12 LEDs each, right?

Yes this is good.

2. Like you, I want dimming to help acclimate the corals. Will one dimmer (dimming kit like at RapidLED) dim all blues, and one dimmer dim all whites? Or do I need a dimmer for each of the 6 MWs?

If you are asking one driver that is dimmable for each 12 LED's strip, and the answer is "yes".

If you are asking about one dimmer (10 volts) signal? and the answer is "no". You can use one 10 volt power adapter (at least 1 amp) for all 6 drivers you have.

3. Is there a drawing/pic that you used to base your wiring on with the terminal block and resistors?

I hope this helps.

 

[katchupoy]

Here is the higher resolution just in case you cannot read where + sign is.

Click here...

 

[katchupoy]

Using the general formula posted a while back it would be 36*18 / 36 LEDs = 18 which seems to be a pretty good number but this includes the blue LEDs right?

My question to you is, what vho are you using now? If they are all actinics, then I suggest go for 12 XP-G CW's first, then wait and see. If you feel its not enough, then add another 12 CW's. The good thing with this approach is its modular.

Also, any recommendations on which type of LED or optics would be great. I do want them to be dimable. I'm thinking about keeping the right and left side separate so I can dim each half on it's own (which would work well with my rock work plan)
Thoughts or opinions?

If this the case, then you will treat 2 strips of aluminum as one. Meaning that you will put 12 LED's on one side (left) but on two strips of aluminum in one driver. And another on the right. this also means that you cannot just remove one strip at a time, but instead, two strips at a time since they are sharing the same driver.

Unless you can make the wiring modular too.

With regards to optics, then it will depend on the height (distance from water) of your fixture. On my XR-E 60 degree optics at 12 inches from water, it can cover maybe 14 inches of front to back water surface. Not enough to my 18 inches tank. So if you go lower, then the scope will get smaller too. This is no problem if you are going to have multiple strips of blue's covering front to back.

Now this is different on my XP-G 45 degree optics. For some reason, this is wider than my blue optics. At 12 inches off the water, it can cover my 18" (front to back) tank really well. Thats why Im going to do 3 strips of LED's. Blue, white and then blue. (front to back)

 

[katchupoy]

Nick if you are sticking with the actinics, I would think just doing a standard number of white leds would be fine. Going off 48 for a 48 x 18 tank using the 60 to 40 rb to white ratio, would translate to 16 to 20 white led's. That is just a guess, need your actual tank dimensions.

This is what Im trying to say. Thanks Bam.

 

[katchupoy]

Another idea for cooling....
So how would taking that fan and mating it with a 3 inch by 1.5 inch by 1/8 inch thick rectangular aluminum bar do for cooling the leds? The bars would be $75 for 2 x 4 foot sections, the fans are about $25 each.

I believe this is too much??? I bought my alum square bar for $20 @ 8 feet.
Dont spend too much on that fan. I believe, that any ambient (standard) clip on fan will do the job. Mine barely hit 100F @ (1amp) on XP-G without fan. XR-E runs cooler (750ma) @ 85F.

Note: these temps are with no other type of lighting. No MH or T5 that might generate heat.

 

[katchupoy]

So using this idea (which makes sense to me) my 65g would be 36*18 / 36 = 18. If that's using 60/40 split on blue/white then I'd actually be using around 15-16 white LEDs only.

Not to say that 60/40 is wrong, but if you go with 2:1 or 66.6/33.3, then you can easily say 12 white and 24 blues. Very easy numbers for drivers??? specially meanwell which is max of 12 for the 48D series.

To be honest. Im running 12 blue and 12 whites right now on a 75G. thats a 48" tank. Yours is 36", so spacing is tighter, so brighter. Just the 12 whites, it might overwhelm your 4 vho's.

Another way, is keep your VHO pinks, then add blue leds... you will be surprise how deep and powerful the blues compared to VHO's.

That looks nice! Seems like a fair price. I'm thinking that driver with 14 LEDs should be a good starting point? It says 48V though so that would only be 3.42V per LED which seems low? Would it be more efficient to go to a 12 LED system with that driver?

We cannot go over 12 led's because we need to consider overhead... like a safety buffer for the driver. remember that when you raise the amperes, the forward voltage goes higher too. Thats why we need extra room/buffer for 12 leds.

 

[1Snapple]

Wow, thanks katchup, a picotope is 12"x 11"x9"
Anyone have any ideas if i can wire up 3 XP-E royal blues 1 XP-G R5 cool white and 1 XP-C red LED. Maybe....
RB, CW, RB, R, RB?

 

[bamf25]

Do the RB and the white draw the same number or watts? Was wondering if I could balance my numbers by 26 rb on 2 drivers, then 24 whites one 2 drivers. What I am worried about with the build is this getting too blue. I prefer a slightly less blue warmer look. So I am thinking about the Natural whites as opposed to the bright whites, and still wondering about the ratios. I know the original recs were for 50:50 then it shifted to 60:40, but that makes it hard with the driver breakdown without mixing colors. Is there another way to get a warmer feel?

 

[katchupoy]

Wow, thanks katchup, a picotope is 12"x 11"x9"
Anyone have any ideas if i can wire up 3 XP-E royal blues 1 XP-G R5 cool white and 1 XP-C red LED. Maybe....
RB, CW, RB, R, RB?

5 led is tough to find for the right driver. if you can find one, maybe those 18 volt laptop ps will work... and if u can find one then i dont see any issue running them all in series. just make sure to consider the amps of the lowest led and not the highest. this case u dont accidentaly fry the low ones.

 

[kcress]

Im with Kcress here. If you can find some cheap regulated 12 volts power supply, this might do the trick. I believe, the meanwell drivers are minimum of 8 for the dimmable ones. I wonder if you can use variable voltage power supply, the ones with 3, 6, 9, 12 and adjust it to dim the LED's? Would this work Kcress?

You would have to have a supply that at it's highest voltage worked well like 12V for 3 LEDs. Then you'd size the resistor to provide the desired 'full current'. Then as you switched down to lower voltages the LEDs would certainly dim. And at some point go out.

Is this what means by forward voltage? if its less than the requirement, it will not light up?.

They'll light still but dimly.

 

[katchupoy]

You would have to have a supply that at it's highest voltage worked well like 12V for 3 LEDs. Then you'd size the resistor to provide the desired 'full current'. Then as you switched down to lower voltages the LEDs would certainly dim. And at some point go out.
They'll light still but dimly.

Thank you for the clarification Kcress.

 

[katchupoy]

Do the RB and the white draw the same number or watts? Was wondering if I could balance my numbers by 26 rb on 2 drivers, then 24 whites one 2 drivers. What I am worried about with the build is this getting too blue. I prefer a slightly less blue warmer look. So I am thinking about the Natural whites as opposed to the bright whites, and still wondering about the ratios. I know the original recs were for 50:50 then it shifted to 60:40, but that makes it hard with the driver breakdown without mixing colors. Is there another way to get a warmer feel?

Here is my 2 cents. I have 12 XR-E RB's, and 12 XP-G CW's. But my RB are running on 750 ma (1000 ma max), and my CW's are running on 1000 ma (1500 ma max). Besides that the XP-G is more lumen per watt, it can also run on higher "ma".

So right now Im running 1:1, If they are both XR-E then its going to be a little (just a little) on the blue side. But with XP-G which is what i have right now, the color is more on the white/yellow side. Maybe this is what you want? Less blue and more on the white.

I am a blue guy, so my settings right now are, 750 ma for the RB and 500 ma for the CW. Because if i go with 750 ma on my CW, its too yellow for my taste. Maybe this is what you want.

So going back to your numbers... maybe 24 XR-E RB and 24 XP-G is what actually you are looking for... "warmer look"


I guess pics will say more.....



Here is the shot on full manual setting with all the same settings. No Photoshop, just cropping.


100% (750 ma) ROYAL BLUE XR-E
50% (500 ma) COOL WHITE XP-G

100% (750 ma) ROYAL BLUE XR-E
75% (750 ma) COOL WHITE XP-G
(ALMOST TRUE 1:1) BASED ON "ma"

100% (750 ma) ROYAL BLUE XR-E
100% (1000 ma) COOL WHITE XP-G

So which one do you like?

 

[1Snapple]

in between #1 and #2. im still wondering if you can get a driver that will run 3 different types of LED's. and can i go 50/50 RB/CW and add some reds?
the royal blue are XP-E
Cool whites are XP-G
and the reds are XP-C

 

[bamf25]

Think I have to say I like number 2 the best. To my eye has the best balence of colors popping on the corals to not looking too artificial. I know color balence and color preference is very subjective. What would be the k reading on that? I think I am shooting for about 15000k. So a little bluer than MH which are typically 13000 to 14000k (could be slightly off on my k's).

So what is the k about on number 2?

 

[NickRummy]

Not to say that 60/40 is wrong, but if you go with 2:1 or 66.6/33.3, then you can easily say 12 white and 24 blues. Very easy numbers for drivers??? specially meanwell which is max of 12 for the 48D series.

To be honest. Im running 12 blue and 12 whites right now on a 75G. thats a 48" tank. Yours is 36", so spacing is tighter, so brighter. Just the 12 whites, it might overwhelm your 4 vho's.

Right now I am using (2) White Actinic VHOs and (2) Super Actinic VHOs. All 24" Bulbs (75w)

I was thinking about getting rid of one of the 24" VHOs and buying (3) new 24" VHO bulbs to use as my Actinics. From front to back I would do, actinic VHO, LED strip, Actinic VHO, LED Strip, Actinic VHO. Do you think this is enough Actinics? Do you think 12 LEDs would be a good starting point then? 6 on each side of the tank? What kind of spacing would you recommend? Right now they are 4" OC front to back and 2.5" left to right but with half the amount of LEDs that'd change quite a bit. They light is not getting to the front and back of the tank until 11" below the water, which is fine I might just move the strips towards the back slightly. I have to keep these under a canopy so they'll be about 3" off the water.

I could just run all 12 off one driver to get a good idea of how bright it will be. If I wanted to add more can I desolder the leads from the LEDs and add in another row? I know it'd require getting another driver if I go above 12.

Sorry lots of questions!

 

[katchupoy]

in between #1 and #2. im still wondering if you can get a driver that will run 3 different types of LED's. and can i go 50/50 RB/CW and add some reds?
the royal blue are XP-E
Cool whites are XP-G
and the reds are XP-C

Just pay attention on the forward voltage and amps. XP-E is 1 amp max? XP-G is 1.5 amps max. and XP-C, i havent seen the data sheet yet...

So i believe you can do put them together in one driver. So what driver are you going to use????