Another Kalkwasser Question

S

supra23

New member
So I'm considering using kalk by way of ATO instead of my current 2-part dosing.

I've read a bunch but can't seem to find one answer...Maybe because it's late..

What if the consumption of ALK and Ca is not equivalent to the amount of limewater being introduced due to evaporation? I was considering using a kalk stirrer/reactor, so the water going into the display tank as top off would be fully saturated limewater. At this hour, it makes sense that if more alk/ca is being added (via top off saturated limewater) than is being used...wouldn't this result in these two parameters spiking, along with pH? or vice versa? Not enough top off/limewater to keep up with the consumption of Ca/alk?

Forgive me if I'm confusing blatantly obvious things - But I appreciate the help :)
 
The kalk stirrers generally don't seem to dose full-strength limewater, but it's true that adding more limewater than the tank can consume will cause the level to increase, and vice versa. There are some brakes on the parameters, though. The higher alkalinity that lime gives will increase calcification, and tend to limit the downward swing. Likewise, the lower pH and alkalinity levels tend to reduce calcification. All in all, most tanks need more lime than they get, on average.
 
Ahhh thanks for the response. A local guy! Awesome.

As you can see, I'm trying to decide on kalk vs. dosing each individually via peristatic pumps. Kalk combines topping off with maintaining alk/ca while you would need individual peristatic pumps (basically individual systems) for Ca/alk/(Mg) and one for top off.

Kalk seemed like the way to go since it integrated nicely with topping off but I was hoping for more opinions. A bunch of guys around here use peristatic pumps but I wanted to make sure I fully explored all available options
 
You can roughly calculate if the Kalk will keep up. How much 2 part (of what type) do you use now in what total volume system, and how much do you topoff each day? With those numbers, you can use this calculator and see if it would do it.
http://home.comcast.net/~jdieck1/chem_calc3.html

I use a dual float switch ATO and Aqualifter pumps for ATO. The rate of topoff always exactly matches evaporation, and the amount delivered each time is very small.
 
sjm817 said:
You can roughly calculate if the Kalk will keep up. How much 2 part (of what type) do you use now in what total volume system, and how much do you topoff each day? With those numbers, you can use this calculator and see if it would do it.
http://home.comcast.net/~jdieck1/chem_calc3.html

I use a dual float switch ATO and Aqualifter pumps for ATO. The rate of topoff always exactly matches evaporation, and the amount delivered each time is very small.
Click to expand...


I used the calculator before to estimate if topoff and ca/alk consumption would match and from rough estimates, it seemed like it was suggesting ~1.3g a day was needed to maintain levels, whereas currently, I only top off about half that. It is a fully enclosed system, except when the lights are on and is only about 50g total water.


Currently, I'm using ESV 2pt. Dosing about 38ml every day, ~1.3oz.
 
Yeah saturated limewater via topoff in my tank is not enough to keep up with the demand. I currently dose 1600ml of randys recipe2 daily which is about 1 meg/L alk consumption daily in my tank. I evap about 7 to 7 1/2g daily but would need to add 9.86g (according to the calculator) daily of kalk water. This just does not work for me. So I just top off fresh RO/DI water and dose (dowflake and baking soda). For years I was always a calcium reactor kinda guy but since I started dosing my alk and cal are always spot on.
 
I topoff ~ 2.5 - 3G day fully saturated Kalk which does not meet the tanks demands. I also dose 180 ml of each 2 part recipe 1 every day.
 
Used it before? Just seemed like a gallon+ per day of a liquid that has a pH of >12 was asking for trouble...

Most people do not find that a problem, as long as it is added slowly enough. I've used nothing but limewater for calcium and alkalinity for more than 14 years on my system.
 
Randy Holmes-Farley said:
Used it before? Just seemed like a gallon+ per day of a liquid that has a pH of >12 was asking for trouble...

Most people do not find that a problem, as long as it is added slowly enough. I've used nothing but limewater for calcium and alkalinity for more than 14 years on my system.
Click to expand...



Thanks for providing assurance Randy. Just thought the pH would build up. What was your reason for choosing to use kalk instead of dosing 2 part?
 
No, the pH concern is not cumulative. As the pH rises in the tank, it quickly sucks in CO2 from the air, bringing the pH back down.

I chose limewater because I always had auto top off from day 1, and adding calcium hydroxide into it is trivial.

Two parts were not yet available, or were just coming online from ESV, so I elected limewater and stuck with it.

I would point out that while limewater does cause a substantial pH rise, it is only twice that for a high pH two part adding the same amount of calcium and alkalinity. :)
 
Randy Holmes-Farley said:
I would point out that while limewater does cause a substantial pH rise, it is only twice that for a high pH two part adding the same amount of calcium and alkalinity. :)
Click to expand...



Not sure I follow what you mean by this. Sorry, it's early ;)

I assume that you don't see a need to switch over to 2 part, as you've stuck with kalk this whole time. Tell me if I'm wrong, but kalk seems more appealing since you can link it straight into your ATO. From what I gather, it's also cheaper. I'd rather not deal with CO2, so that eliminates the Ca reactor. I do manual 2 pt. now and to automate that, I'd need 2 peri. dosers in addition to ATO. To replenish, would need Ca and Alk supplement vs. just kalk
 
Not sure I follow what you mean by this. Sorry, it's early

Add enough limewater to boost calcium by 10 ppm and alkalinity by 0.5 meq/L (1.4 dKH) all at once, then the pH instantly jumps something like 0.6-0.7 pH units.

Add B-ionic two part to cause the same increase, and ph jumps instantly by about 0.3 pH units.


So the pH jump is twice as large with limewater as a two part.

I compare methodfs here (although I wrote it before devising the DIY two part systems):

How to Select a Calcium and Alkalinity Supplementation Scheme
http://www.advancedaquarist.com/issues/feb2003/chem.htm
 
A two part is also certainly a fine way to go, and limewater alone replacing all evaporated water won't meet the needs for many tanks if you have a lot of SPS or lower evaporation.

A DIY two part can also be quite cheap relative to limewater. :)
 
Thanks again, Randy. I ran across that site but as soon as I saw the chemical equations, I skipped out! I'll drudge through it when I get a chance...That looks like what I need to read. "But I finished chem already" was my first thought ;)

I do have a good amount of SPS with plans to get more and I have a relatively low evaporation rate compared to other people it seems. Might have to do 2pt.
 
supra23 said:
Used it before? Just seemed like a gallon+ per day of a liquid that has a pH of >12 was asking for trouble...
Click to expand...


Yes, I've used it before and still use it on my fish only live rock system.

On my SPS-only tank, kalk just could no longer keep up with the alkalinity demand. So, I switched to two part, but I did not like the salininty increase I was getting. So, now I use a Ca reactor and does two part solutions for fine control.
 
Randy,

Any suggests for hardware set ups for a kalk/ato combo? I have a JBJ ATO which should do the job for my needs..at least for the time being =)


I was looking at Kalk stirrers/reactors. There's one FS that's $130, but it uses a magnetic stir bar, which I THINK is a really old model...
 
I prefer to dose limewater from a settled reservoir, like a Brute trash can.

I use a Reef Filler pump (2, actually) on an Omega Engineering LV-1201 float switch, but that pump is only suited for remote use (a basement, in my case) as it is noisy.

As long as the ATO sends in the water slowly enough and in small enough amounts, many ATO systems will work OK. :)
 
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