anyone running ULNS and a refugium?

[fishnut321]

Im considering adding a refugium on my 40 breeder. At the same time i plan to dose vodka and possibly mb7 as the tank progresses. I am curious if the two work against each other and if anyone has first hand experience who could consult me if the refugium will not be beneficial or needed while running a bacteria based system.

My tank thread

http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1704147

 

[fishnut321]

there has to be some people who have some experience, im really curious because i have the money and time to add a refugium this weekend.

 

[jenglish]

I wouldn't say they would work against each other in all cases but if you are running a ULNS to begin with IDK what the fuge would really add. Dedending on your dosing, bioload and skimmer you could get to the point that algae lacks nutrients to grow.

 

[Henry Bowman]

I run Zeo and had a dsb in the sump. The system ran OK for quite some time. Tank is BB. When I carefully removed the sand, the system was MUCH better off. Little bits of valonia that was troublesome disappeared. The tank is much healthier without the DSB under the tank. I have not tried cheato while running Zeo. At this point, I doubt that the Cheato would grow much / if at all.

 

[fishnut321]

I have also heard that these methods reduce biodiversity, which makes since. Is there a dramatic difference before and after the switch?

 

[ludnix]

I'm running a refugium with chaetomorphia and red mangroves while dosing vitamin C.

I had been running the refugium since the start and it's been doing a great job, but once I started dosing vitamin C any traces of cyano in my tank disappeared and my sand became much cleaner. The chaeto seems to be continuing to grow so my current dosage of vitamin C doesn't seem to be out competing the chaeto, but I'm at a point where I don't have any nuisance algae in the display.

 

[solitude127]

Tagging along on this one. I'm setting up my sump right now with a fuge built in to only grow chaeto and plan to dose MB7 and vodka.

 

[iFisch]

In theory, if you have low enough N03/P04, due to vodka/MB7, then the macro's won't absorb anything, because the chemicals and skimmer are exporting them.. no?

 

[luther1200]

Most of them, but Vodka can't get 100% of everything out. I have been running Polyp Labs Reefresh system for about a year now. Which is basically vodka-AA-bacteria-and another AA inhanced coral food. I have had a fuge before I started and I still have it. But I don't harvest it nearly as much as I used to. And before my NO3 was slowly creaping up and PO4 was a bit high. Now they are both near 0. I think the fuge still helps a little, but I doubt I need it anymore honestly. I just keep it so the pods down there have stuff to hide in really. But I do still harvest it once a month, I'm just not pulling out huge clumps like I used to.

 

[noahm]

My chaeto came to a near halt when I was vodka dosing. Eventually I had problems with my zoas, so I slowly cut back the dosing until I stopped altogether. It has been a month, but nitrates are still at unmeasurable and the chaeto is doubling at about three week intervals it seems. My thoughts are that it wont hurt to run a fuge, and the other critters are bound to help, but you just wont get much export from the macro algae harvest.

 

[fishnut321]

Noahm brought up a good point, does dosing vodka affect negatively any coral species in particular? The reason i ask is that i am aware that corals such as xenia require those nutrients as fuel, but one of the reasons i am considering running vodka is due to the fact that some of my zoas and gsp have always had an issue with hair algae growing on the polyp matt. Is vodka dosing best suited to a sps only tank? Even lps rely on some doc's, yet i have heard that the lps corals will color up in response to the low nutrient load. Im rather confused, even after reading all the threads on vodka etc.


As far as test kits go my tank runs 0 nitrates and phosphates with very little algae except for the areas mentioned earlier and some on the glass every 4 days or so.

 

[luther1200]

I have SPS, LPS, softies and Zoo's all doing great.

 

[iFisch]

As far as test kits go my tank runs 0 nitrates and phosphates with very little algae except for the areas mentioned earlier and some on the glass every 4 days or so.

What test kits are you using? If you're all 0's, why dose vodka/MB7 and have a fuge?

 

[plyle02]

I would think a cryptic fuge would be a better benefit to running a ULNS, where sponges usually thrive, and macro type algaes usually wither away... If you do decide the vodka/mb7 approach and have questions, LMK, have been doing for a couple of months now. I also use sponge power by zeovit, if I had a cryptic fuge, sponges would be growing like crazy, especially if seeded. I have crazy sponge growth in my display regardless. GL

 

[LobsterOfJustice]

If you have high enough nutrients to grow algae in a refugium you are not ulns. The two systems, if done properly, are mutually exclusive.

 

[kuyatwo]

i have been dosing vodka for over a year now and my chaeto was size of a baseball a year ago and prob has gotten a little bigger than a softball. I agree majority of the nutrients that feed the chaeto is gone or minimal. My friend that runs zeovit can not grow chaeto as it starves to death from so low of nutrients in the tank

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

I dose vodka and vinegar (very, very high doses) and maintain refugia, but I do not have any evidence that it is ULNS. I do run brightly lit refugia along with it because I think there are substantial benefits relating to O2 production, pH balancing via CO2 consumption on reverse light cycle, and nutrient export.

At the moment, I think a mixed system (organic carbon dosing and lit refugia) like mine is better for my type of tank (anemones/LPS/soft corals) than is either method alone.

I also think that in a system like this, Caulerpa racemosa may be a better choice (barring concern about it getting into the main tank) because it appears to compete for nutrients better than does Chaetomorpha.

 

[solitude127]

What test kits are you using? If you're all 0's, why dose vodka/MB7 and have a fuge?

maybe he runs it to keep it everything at 0?

 

[iFisch]

maybe he runs it to keep it everything at 0?

He's asking about MB7/vodka and a 'fuge. If you don't have any N03/P04 problems, why add things you don't necessarily need?

 

[fishnut321]

well the reason im asking is i am currently contemplating which route i want to take. Just because my test kits are running 0 does not mean that the nutrients are not in the tank,my algae growth is proof of that. Algae would not be growing if the nutrient were at an actual 0 reading. I use elos test kits, so i would consider the readings fairly accurate for a hobby level test kit.

The system is going to become sps dominant, i have a mix of corals at the moment that i have accumulated over about four years of systems that will eventually be phased out to sps. That being said i have built my system to provide the needs for high light/water quality corals and im using this thread to help me make the right choice in providing the proper conditions for these corals.


I have considered the cryptic fuge as well, my main concern would be that by running a ulns, the benefits of microfauna reproduction would not be adequate enough to construct a fuge at this time. I however could be wrong, since i have never ran a system like this. It will be a learning experience.

As randy and others have said, it seems like the two systems would be exclusive and i have had personal experience with randy's suggestion in that caulerpa sp. will outgrow and out compete chaeto, hence i still have some problems with caulerpa trying to grow in the mats my gsp and some of my older zoa colonies.