Uncle Salty 05
New member
Be careful, you may get chastised for calling cheap chinese LEDS cheap chinese LEDs.
Anyone Thinking of Dumping LEDS and going back to Halides
- Thread starter Goldcoastreefs
- Start date
d2mini
Premium Member
Dennis,
I think that no one could have given more of a chance to LED fixtures than you have, you certainly spared no expense. Your experience in this switchover should not be dismissed by those folks who have the blinders on when it comes to LEDs. As you yourself have said, your tank looked nice before the switch, but the changes post switch are pretty surprising
Yeah, can't say I didn't give the old college try, huh?
Thanks.
Uncle Salty 05
New member
Alrighty then.
The odd part is that most of my "cheap Chinese" 120v is actually not Chinese at all. It is made in North Carolina (Cree) and Germany (Osram) and then just assembled in China. Even the driver is Korean if I remember right.....fans were French or something...
I think the plastic cover was Chinese though....and the screws!
The trick to shopping from China is to remember that it is HUGE and a big producer of goods intended for a 3rd world market. If you buy the cheapest of the cheap that is what you will get, something that passed the rigorous safety regulations of Zimbabwe.
I think the plastic cover was Chinese though....and the screws!
The trick to shopping from China is to remember that it is HUGE and a big producer of goods intended for a 3rd world market. If you buy the cheapest of the cheap that is what you will get, something that passed the rigorous safety regulations of Zimbabwe.
power boat jim
Well-known member
Yep, it now costs more in health care and benefits for each car made by most car companys then it does for the raw material that goes into making each car.
cambo123
New member
I am switching back to T5 from LED. My experience is with a reef breeders value fixture. Not the best but certainly not the worst (at least it is "full spectrum"). I had decent growth with LPS. Color was just ok with the whites/blues on. The pop with the blue was amazing. I loved the shimmer. Despite all of that I still never felt like the tank was totally onboard with the light. Its hard to explain or even put a finger on what it was, but the feeling was there.
I recently ripped the tank apart and started over with SPS. I purchased several frags from the LFS and several more from a frag swap. 100% of these frags were lit under halides or T5's. From that point forward the light became a challenge. I am getting (i think) good growth. I have frags that have reached the edge of the frag plugs, many curving over and encrusting the rocks in less than 4 weeks. The flow and parameter part is covered with a vortech and jaebo (or whatever it is called) pumps on random mode and BRS dosing pumps so really the only thing I am unsure on is the light.
I tried several different settings on the light. 90 optics and 120 optics. Higher intensity on the blue channel low on the white channel. Inevitably all corals lost there color...kinda. Let me explain.
Pink cap: This coral started as a brilliant pink immediately after being introduced to my tank. It was lit under a 250w MH. Since then it is still pink but the color is very runny. In other words, the pink is not consistent throughout the entire coral. Some parts are noticeable less vibrant than others. With the blues and whites on, it just looks washed out.
Green Slimmer: Similar situation. It started under a 250w MH. It started a brilliant green. Under my lighting it just isn't as brilliant. With the blues and whites on, the flesh between polyps looks noticeable yellow green as apposed to just green. The polyps have not changed there color. (FYI, this seems to be a trend, I never lose color in the polyps, just the flesh on the skeleton)
Bonzi: This came from a 250w MH with a light brown body and purple tips. The brown area has become very, very light brown, the tips are still purple but not nearly as brilliant. The polyps again are still a very vibrant green.
Red Milli: Again, 250w MH with a brilliant red. Now it is brownish red/ very washed out.
Green Planet (i think): Although it is almost a turquoise color. This guys is the only one that has not changed in any way. It has not lost color, not grown or receded. It has just not done anything.
Green Acrapora: Not sure what this guy is called but it almost looks like it has scales. It was one of the cooler corals but has since lost most of its green on the shaded side. What is startling is there is literally a "tan line" between the spots it is exposed to light and the parts that are shaded (color on the light side is noticeable better). This is likely a spread issue but I already have no optics on my lights so there is not much I can do.
The only other thing that could cause my less then stellar color is a food shortage, however I regularly feed my tank.
I just got a ATI sun power and will be installing very soon. Since I can actually take pictures again i will post some shots when the ATI first goes up and several weeks after.
I recently ripped the tank apart and started over with SPS. I purchased several frags from the LFS and several more from a frag swap. 100% of these frags were lit under halides or T5's. From that point forward the light became a challenge. I am getting (i think) good growth. I have frags that have reached the edge of the frag plugs, many curving over and encrusting the rocks in less than 4 weeks. The flow and parameter part is covered with a vortech and jaebo (or whatever it is called) pumps on random mode and BRS dosing pumps so really the only thing I am unsure on is the light.
I tried several different settings on the light. 90 optics and 120 optics. Higher intensity on the blue channel low on the white channel. Inevitably all corals lost there color...kinda. Let me explain.
Pink cap: This coral started as a brilliant pink immediately after being introduced to my tank. It was lit under a 250w MH. Since then it is still pink but the color is very runny. In other words, the pink is not consistent throughout the entire coral. Some parts are noticeable less vibrant than others. With the blues and whites on, it just looks washed out.
Green Slimmer: Similar situation. It started under a 250w MH. It started a brilliant green. Under my lighting it just isn't as brilliant. With the blues and whites on, the flesh between polyps looks noticeable yellow green as apposed to just green. The polyps have not changed there color. (FYI, this seems to be a trend, I never lose color in the polyps, just the flesh on the skeleton)
Bonzi: This came from a 250w MH with a light brown body and purple tips. The brown area has become very, very light brown, the tips are still purple but not nearly as brilliant. The polyps again are still a very vibrant green.
Red Milli: Again, 250w MH with a brilliant red. Now it is brownish red/ very washed out.
Green Planet (i think): Although it is almost a turquoise color. This guys is the only one that has not changed in any way. It has not lost color, not grown or receded. It has just not done anything.
Green Acrapora: Not sure what this guy is called but it almost looks like it has scales. It was one of the cooler corals but has since lost most of its green on the shaded side. What is startling is there is literally a "tan line" between the spots it is exposed to light and the parts that are shaded (color on the light side is noticeable better). This is likely a spread issue but I already have no optics on my lights so there is not much I can do.
The only other thing that could cause my less then stellar color is a food shortage, however I regularly feed my tank.
I just got a ATI sun power and will be installing very soon. Since I can actually take pictures again i will post some shots when the ATI first goes up and several weeks after.
AcroporAddict
There is no substitute.
I would say your experience is pretty typical.
d2mini
Premium Member
Yep, sounds familiar.
One thing though. Even after a few months under MH/T5"¦ my green planet STILL hasn't done anything. :lol:
kc350twin
New member
Well I have finally decided to jump back to halides. I will be at least testing the waters again with them. I picked up a Used pair of Lumenmax 2's, Lumatek's and new Phoenix SE 14k's. A friend of mine has this Set up supplemented with Reefbrites and love the color. He has good growth and color with the halides only running 4 hrs a day. I will start there and see what happens.
I am a little reluctant to put 2 250's over a 36x36x20
I am a little reluctant to put 2 250's over a 36x36x20
+1 Sounds about right.
Personally I have had better experience using either MH or T5 or a combo of both than I have had with LEDs.
kevin_austin
New member
I don't have much experience with metal halides (they always seemed too unwieldy to me). However, I've used T12, PC, T8, T5, and now LEDs (in that order). The LEDs are just so convenient, easy to use, and come in such a nice form factor. And boy are they cheap compared to any other option.
From my initial experience with LEDs, I think one of the main issues is that we try to be too efficient with them. We want to light the same space with 60 watts (120 watt fixture at 50%) that we did with 250 watts of MH or fluorescents. So, we put these narrow optics on them to focus the light.
I'm wondering if better results would be had by removing the optics, letting some light escape, have some bounce of the glass and sand, and get a fuller, though less intense, result.
At the moment, I have my LEDs set at 50% (60W?) and my corals seem to have extended more than they did under my 130 W of power compacts (Coralife fixture) and 9 watts of actinic LED supplements.
I have mostly LPS and soft corals, so I can't speak to results with SPS (I never really went that direction for some reason).
From my initial experience with LEDs, I think one of the main issues is that we try to be too efficient with them. We want to light the same space with 60 watts (120 watt fixture at 50%) that we did with 250 watts of MH or fluorescents. So, we put these narrow optics on them to focus the light.
I'm wondering if better results would be had by removing the optics, letting some light escape, have some bounce of the glass and sand, and get a fuller, though less intense, result.
At the moment, I have my LEDs set at 50% (60W?) and my corals seem to have extended more than they did under my 130 W of power compacts (Coralife fixture) and 9 watts of actinic LED supplements.
I have mostly LPS and soft corals, so I can't speak to results with SPS (I never really went that direction for some reason).
Scorpius
Stick Head
I don't have much experience with metal halides (they always seemed too unwieldy to me). However, I've used T12, PC, T8, T5, and now LEDs (in that order). The LEDs are just so convenient, easy to use, and come in such a nice form factor. And boy are they cheap compared to any other option.
From my initial experience with LEDs, I think one of the main issues is that we try to be too efficient with them. We want to light the same space with 60 watts (120 watt fixture at 50%) that we did with 250 watts of MH or fluorescents. So, we put these narrow optics on them to focus the light.
I'm wondering if better results would be had by removing the optics, letting some light escape, have some bounce of the glass and sand, and get a fuller, though less intense, result.
At the moment, I have my LEDs set at 50% (60W?) and my corals seem to have extended more than they did under my 130 W of power compacts (Coralife fixture) and 9 watts of actinic LED supplements.
I have mostly LPS and soft corals, so I can't speak to results with SPS (I never really went that direction for some reason).
hmmm... might be a trend of not using enough watts per square inch of tank maybe? I have the Kessil a360 on my 18in square cube and man can I light it up if I want to. Couldn't imagine using this light on anything wider than 24 inches.
marleychan
New member
I like T5s but the LEDs are such a great $$ saver and you don't have to worry about changing bulbs. I just love that.
kevin_austin
New member
Good point. I've got it over a 37 gallon tank (30" w x 12" d x 24" h). It is great at lighting up a 24" span, but the rest of the tank is darker. If I crank it up to 100%, it lights the whole 30" span, but it is too much for the corals.
spicytuna
New member
I have used metal halide since I started reefing about 10 years ago. Back when DIY was the way to go if you wanted led, I did quite a few cree xre supplemental builds to accompany my halides. I was always very happy with LEDs as supplemental lighting. For my current tank, the first light I bought was a radion gen 2. Being I don't have a computer, only an iPad, I had no way of programming it. So I bought a cheap laptop. I was not very happy with the radion, it just didn't light the tank up the way I wanted it too. I never gave it a chance to grow corals. I thought buying a premium fixture and waiting a few years for better products would yeild good results. To each there own, but led is not for me. At least not my main lighting source.
Now after ten years, I'm finally giving t5 a try. I'm using a 6x39 dimmable sunpower and I absolutley love it. The color is perfect, and my sps are growing pretty fast. I don't foresee changing lights for a very long time.
Now after ten years, I'm finally giving t5 a try. I'm using a 6x39 dimmable sunpower and I absolutley love it. The color is perfect, and my sps are growing pretty fast. I don't foresee changing lights for a very long time.
JPMagyar
New member
I hate to contribute to thread drift, but I can't let this comment stand. LEDs are NOT ALWAYS cheaper and you DO possibly have to change bulbs. Total cost of ownership is very much a function of beginning price, density of LEDs, how hard the LEDs are run and the total length time used, and as I showed in my other thread some well known LEDs have lost more than half their PAR in less than 2 years depending on how hard they were run. Many of the original commercial LED units were very expensive to purchase and now users are finding it is difficult and expensive to change LEDs. Yes, it is true there are cheaper options, but it is NOT true that ALL LEDs are cheaper; in fact I would guess that of the most popular varieties sold to date (AI, Radion, Ecotech, and Maxspect to name a few) I would think that folks that have bought and used those units have, in total, spent WAY more money than folks who opted for a simple T5 or metal halide light.
Just to bring it full circle, I will say that in my own tank where I changed out my LEDs 2 months ago I continue to see phenomenal growth and deepening coloration across the board. Nothing makes SPS corals look as good as they can as a Radium bulb supplemented with fluorescent lighting. Everyday I look at my tank I am grateful for finally realizing how foolish I was to experiment with other types of lighting and how wonderful my tank looks now
d2mini
Premium Member
LED are expensive, take a lot of tinkering with too many options, and they are the most expensive option. Like buying a Hybrid car, it can years to make up the cost difference if you are going with one of the higher end off-the-shelf programmable fixtures.The LEDs are just so convenient, easy to use, and come in such a nice form factor. And boy are they cheap compared to any other option.
Those optics are what help spread the light and mix the individual colors.
Then LED is perfect for you. LPS and softies like LED.
I hate to contribute to thread drift, but I can't let this comment stand. LEDs are NOT ALWAYS cheaper and you DO possibly have to change bulbs. Total cost of ownership is very much a function of beginning price, density of LEDs, how hard the LEDs are run and the total length time used, and as I showed in my other thread some well known LEDs have lost more than half their PAR in less than 2 years depending on how hard they were run. Many of the original commercial LED units were very expensive to purchase and now users are finding it is difficult and expensive to change LEDs. Yes, it is true there are cheaper options, but it is NOT true that ALL LEDs are cheaper; in fact I would guess that of the most popular varieties sold to date (AI, Radion, Ecotech, and Maxspect to name a few) I would think that folks that have bought and used those units have, in total, spent WAY more money than folks who opted for a simple T5 or metal halide light.
Just to bring it full circle, I will say that in my own tank where I changed out my LEDs 2 months ago I continue to see phenomenal growth and deepening coloration across the board. Nothing makes SPS corals look as good as they can as a Radium bulb supplemented with fluorescent lighting. Everyday I look at my tank I am grateful for finally realizing how foolish I was to experiment with other types of lighting and how wonderful my tank looks now
+1 to all that.
Not only are good off-the-shelf LED units more expensive up front, you'll probably still upgraded every few years (at least) negating any savings in bulb changes. And electricity savings really only makes sense for those in high priced tiered sectors. I'm lighting a 200g tank with mh/t5 for only $100+ more per year than I was with LED. And my entire new mh/t5 setup was about a third the cost of my LED setup.
And after a few months I also continue to notice better growth and color and even thickness of my sps.
Mikefromaz
New member
I firmly believe after reading umpteen pro halide posts is that those folks do not wish to invest learnung a new way of doing things. As many people who are against leds there are as many who are very happy with them. One thing for sure..... if you take a high power led fixture plop it on your tank expecting it to work like a halide, YES you are likely to be unhappy. Frustraded led newbies are cooking their corals and wondering why they are turning brown. BROWN CILORATION CAN ALSO BE A DEFENSIVE REPONSE TO TOO MUCH LIGHT. It is amazing how many people dont even consider that. So what do they do? Turn up the power of course.
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