MondoBongo
Obligate Feeder Obsessed
can't it be both?
this thread, like most about LEDs versus other lights, is about worthless. i tried in earlier pages to contribute, but got bored with that when it was clear this was mostly about making up BS.
Anyone Thinking of Dumping LEDS and going back to Halides
- Thread starter Goldcoastreefs
- Start date
can't it be both?
this thread, like most about LEDs versus other lights, is about worthless. i tried in earlier pages to contribute, but got bored with that when it was clear this was mostly about making up BS.
Uncle Salty 05
New member
can't it be both?
this thread, like most about LEDs versus other lights, is about worthless. i tried in earlier pages to contribute, but got bored with that when it was clear this was mostly about making up BS.
Don't be so hard on yourself.:wave:
MondoBongo
Obligate Feeder Obsessed
i see what you did there. :beachbum:
thanks for the advice. i'll be sure to take that under consideration.
Can we lay off the nationalistic BS now please.
It will contribute nothing to the topic at hand and is VERY likely to turn this into derail HQ.
alton
Well-known member
Jack its Friday afternoon, time for a beer and relax. Go Spurs go, Go Metal Halide go, and looks like Phoenix SE lamps are starting to replace Radium in my tank. Fastuno nice looking tank, how long have you had your leds? And you might want to watch the birdsnest, they take over very quickly
FastUno
New member
I feel the same way about Chinese products, but every once in a while you buy a product that has an intrinsic value that makes it worth it. This appears to be hit or miss and hence my hesitation & others as well. These lights have an almost equal value to replacing MH/T5 bulbs for 1 year. So even if they break within a year, then no big loss, especially if they grow corals.
I did see one local reefer in particular who had these type of Chinese lights for 2 years & his developed rust internally, but he had the lights closer to the tank water line. They still worked, just looked rusty internally. I would worry more if they were needed to be placed in a canopy & even if they did, I would find a way to shield them (plexiglass them in a box, with top opening or vents.
Funny thing is that my MH/T5 fixture sat directly on top of my tank & salt always spattered & caused the plexiglass to have salt creep & to rust to a degree internally....yes a USA built model & I paid $1300 (compared to $254 for my new Chinese sets) for those fixtures at that time & I love those fixtures. After 2 years of usage on this MH/T5 fixture I had times where the MH just would not turn on. I have also seen many USA built reflectors & fixtures with rust, some costing hundreds of dollars.
My Chinese lights are placed 13" from my tank top & are not directly on top, never a drop & no indication of rust so far. Only complain is the dust from the fans, but I have the same thing on my MH/T5 with big fans on either end.
+1
When I switched out one of my 250 Watt Metal Halide Pendants for AI LEDs, after 8 months my coral growth was very noticeably much better under the halides. Same results with Radion.
Nothing grows corals better than metal halides.
d2mini said:
Those are all premium products in an emerging market: apples to oranges...
But then you already know that...
meshwheel
New member
You will find many of the USA made products have Chinese or "out sourced parts in them! Even your German products! Klaus got caught using Chinese parts in his Red Dragon pumps a while back! And these rusted!
Part of the reason is our federal government, the other part is general labor costs.
Since the economy has went and still is going globally, there will be many other countries that will do the labor for much less.
You want that iphone for 200.00 right???? If it was built here, it would be 1500.00 to 2000.00.
And lets not forget, there are good people in other countries that need and want to eat! Just because their government is corrupt, does not mean they are.
Back to the topic:
Metal halides work great. They are however like any other technology and are getting more and more obsolete as led's are still evolving.
A few things to keep in mind:
1. For us coral guys heavy into the hobby, they are much more complex them metal halides. HOWEVER, they are many times more flexible!! The fine tuning just blows metal halides out of the water.
2. For your average joe with fish, they are perfect!!! Nice looking color. No heat. Easy on the electric bill and tunable to his color preference to make his fish pop.
Many of the leds people claim as junk, are aimed at these hobbyists and will work just fine. And can be pretty capable units.
Many of us here are the exceptions. And its harder for companies to make money with us. There's not enough compared to the masses!
Part of the reason is our federal government, the other part is general labor costs.
Since the economy has went and still is going globally, there will be many other countries that will do the labor for much less.
You want that iphone for 200.00 right???? If it was built here, it would be 1500.00 to 2000.00.
And lets not forget, there are good people in other countries that need and want to eat! Just because their government is corrupt, does not mean they are.
Back to the topic:
Metal halides work great. They are however like any other technology and are getting more and more obsolete as led's are still evolving.
A few things to keep in mind:
1. For us coral guys heavy into the hobby, they are much more complex them metal halides. HOWEVER, they are many times more flexible!! The fine tuning just blows metal halides out of the water.
2. For your average joe with fish, they are perfect!!! Nice looking color. No heat. Easy on the electric bill and tunable to his color preference to make his fish pop.
Many of the leds people claim as junk, are aimed at these hobbyists and will work just fine. And can be pretty capable units.
Many of us here are the exceptions. And its harder for companies to make money with us. There's not enough compared to the masses!
TropTrea
New member
In all reality labor is only a small fraction of the product cost . Sure if your talking hand knitted clothing it is a big part but in most Manufacturing environments today you have one individual working a machine that produces 50 to 5,000 part per hour.
Yes I will agree here. But some companies are going beyond the practical in order produce more bells and whistles on the lighting systems rather than working on improving the spectrum. When there are three real variables to lighting performances why go so far as create 6 or 12 variable lighting channels. The only three variables are the degree of Blue light, degree of red light, and the degree of full spectrum light.
Now I'll strongly disagree with you. The average first time bigginer buys his set upo from the local fish store. 80% of the LED fixtures sold in the local fish store are not practical for the reef tank. They may be great for fresh water tanks, some might work for planted fresh water tanks, and a few might be okay for a low light corals. If jnhnny sees he has a selection of 5 lights in the fish store for his 30 gallon tank with a price range of $60.00 to $300 chances are he will end up buying something for $120. But in reality even that $300 system is not as good as good as a $400 system he could have gotten through the internet today.
This is true. But you still have two groups of us here.
group 1 wants the best for there corals regardless of the price. If you convince them your lighting system is better that last years model you sold them they will spend the money to upgrade.
group 2 Has a budget and will research the lighting spectrum and look for the best price to get what there corals need. In many cases this means they will build there own fixtures. When they get there lights they are looking at three things only spectrum, intensity, and price.
Many of these last group of individuals may still be holding on to there MH's or T-5's because it was proven to them to work and do not want risk the money on something new while it is controversial.
You forgot about group 3:
They have their MH and T5 still that they are still holding on to not because of risk-of-money, but because of performance. Most of these people have more than enough cash and know-how to move to anything that they want.
...and there are 3 or 4 more types of people.
They have their MH and T5 still that they are still holding on to not because of risk-of-money, but because of performance. Most of these people have more than enough cash and know-how to move to anything that they want.
...and there are 3 or 4 more types of people.
d2mini
Premium Member
Yay, one of my favorite threads is back. lol
To answer the original question of this thread… YES.
http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?p=22678372#post22678372
To answer the original question of this thread… YES.
http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?p=22678372#post22678372
mhucasey
Acros & wieners, oh my!
Yay, one of my favorite threads is back. lol
To answer the original question of this thread"¦ YES.
http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?p=22678372#post22678372
Dennis,
I think that no one could have given more of a chance to LED fixtures than you have, you certainly spared no expense. Your experience in this switchover should not be dismissed by those folks who have the blinders on when it comes to LEDs. As you yourself have said, your tank looked nice before the switch, but the changes post switch are pretty surprising
ridetheducati
20 and Over Club
93 pages. Are we still "thinking" about dumping LEDs or have we moved to contemplating? Trying to keep up with all the MH vs LED threads on the interwebs.
SNAKEMANVET
PREMIUM MEMBER
All I can say that my purple Monti cap turned brown when I switched to LEDs.Now that I have gone back to MHs my cap is getting its color back as well as my other corals
meshwheel
New member
TropTea,
Labor is a HUGE amount of the cost. Everyone here needs health insurance, pensions, many Unions involved, injuries etc. Make no mistake, it's huge!! Thats why its all moving!!!! Manufacturing?? That takes laborers as well. Thats why its all moved!
I see SUB 100.00 leds all day long at stores like Petsmart, Petco. etc. Entry level strip light leds! And more companies are jumping in to the entry level(like Fluval..........YES FLUVAL) market. They can buy cheap leds from China, badge them and sell them for a substantial profit using their purchasing power.
I have been in this business far too long.
Labor is a HUGE amount of the cost. Everyone here needs health insurance, pensions, many Unions involved, injuries etc. Make no mistake, it's huge!! Thats why its all moving!!!! Manufacturing?? That takes laborers as well. Thats why its all moved!
I see SUB 100.00 leds all day long at stores like Petsmart, Petco. etc. Entry level strip light leds! And more companies are jumping in to the entry level(like Fluval..........YES FLUVAL) market. They can buy cheap leds from China, badge them and sell them for a substantial profit using their purchasing power.
I have been in this business far too long.
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