Anyone Thinking of Dumping LEDS and going back to Halides
- Thread starter Goldcoastreefs
- Start date
I hope we get all get to the point where we understand the exchange of ideas and experiences is a good thing, it is not now, nor has it ever been, "this is right and this is wrong". While it is good to be passionate about your choices and beliefs, it is important to express them without malice or ill-will.
Knowledge is gained by disagreement, no one ever learned anything new by saying "I agree", but it is imperative that we disagree without attacking. We are all here to learn from each other, to challenge the norm and increase our own knowledge and hopefully we can do it as friends.
Knowledge is gained by disagreement, no one ever learned anything new by saying "I agree", but it is imperative that we disagree without attacking. We are all here to learn from each other, to challenge the norm and increase our own knowledge and hopefully we can do it as friends.
Mikefromaz
New member
Been reading this thread it seems forever. My tank is only seven months old, completely LED and full of thriving LPS, Zoos, leathers including a foot high rose pink sinularia, brain and even a baseball sized gonipora lovin' life. Ive had no experrience with SPS so I cant offer an opinion. One misconception needs addressing though. If you have end to end coverage with dozens of three watt LED emitters with 120 degree dispersion lenses as I do, there is no more shadowing than any other type of lighting fixture. In fact I have a few coralimorphs and my biggest problem has been creating shade for them. My former reef for ten years or so was 36in. deep so I get it when dealing with enough lighting. My present 49 gal. system might not be typical of other peoples reefs but I can honestly say everything I have now is growing well and spreading nicely. I run my 120w. fixture at a max. of 23% about ten inches over an uncovered tank. Supplements galore and great coloration. Works for me!
Wazzel
New member
No, I truly feel the LED equipment is technically now able to hold its own with 250 watt MH or better. If it was not I would have gone with 250 watt MH on this tank like my last one. IMO what LED is lacking is tank run hours to figure out the operating conditions that work and just a little bit of tweaking to get the color and lay out correct. We have significant amount of that with MH so as a community we know with X bulb, use Y ballast and run for z time. Same for T-5 tho not quite as much.
LED also has more flexibility that MH so all those options need to be sorted out also.
My tank is new and starting from frags so this is a good time for me to help work some of that out. If my tank was established I would not be making a switch and risk messing up a tank full of corals.
I can totally understand the aprehension for most to move from proven technology or the draw to move back to it if things are not going how they feel it should go.
LED also has more flexibility that MH so all those options need to be sorted out also.
My tank is new and starting from frags so this is a good time for me to help work some of that out. If my tank was established I would not be making a switch and risk messing up a tank full of corals.
I can totally understand the aprehension for most to move from proven technology or the draw to move back to it if things are not going how they feel it should go.
I think right now the combo of LED and metal halide are also something to really consider. I am personally adding some kessil A360W with my metal halides. I like the kessil as they give that great shimmer. What this will in turn do for me is to run the metal halide less, but mainly for a growth since I want sps. I will be mainly using the kessils for viewing pleasure. With this I am going to attempt to run the metal halides Sat, sun, Mon, wed, fri. During the week only 4 hours and 6 on the weeks. This will greatly extend the life of the bulbs. The kessil will be on for closer to 10-12 hours. Its good to mix it up. I only have a few frags right now but time will tell if this works out.
atrox
New member
In texas run two 150 hqi 10" off of waterline in canopy with computer fans. It may get to low 100's in temp here but house stays for my comfort w/without aquarium at 75 degrees. Tank will max out temp wise at 81.3 and low end of 77 in morning before lights come on. Just my opinion but anyone who spends a lot of money on anything in particular LEDs they are expected to work, heck is it's the latest and greatest tech so it has to work right.... I think those who get defensive about LEDs due so because they spent so much on their setups. I never get defensive about my metal halides because they work well.
Wazzel
New member
People will get defensive about any piece of kit they use, especally when it is expensive. That attitude is not helpful for the progress of the tech in the hobby. LEDs are something, if they were not companies would not be continueing to make and develope them.
Mikefromaz
New member
My LED system is settable power and color in 1/2 hr. Increments. There is a user written program online which emulates the sun power from dawn to dusk which I use. I am kind of old school because I have had my best success in the past with 50/50 white/actinic. I emulate this with my lights set 20% higher on the white. Not exactly science but it didnt take long for me to observe my corals were not only surviving but multiplying. Duncans 4 heads in Jan., over 12 now. Sinularia from 6in. to 11in.now. Each of my 6 zoo colonies at least doubled. Blazing canary goniopora not only happy but has thrown a single baby polyp which lives on a rock two in. from the parent. Just my experience.
d2mini
Premium Member
Pretty much everyone's experience with softies.
If my tank was all softies and even LPS, I might still have my LEDs.
I wonder why it is that SPS are the coral that have problems?
BTW, i was at an LFS today that had kessil lit tanks.
Oh my eyes! I don't know how anyone can look at that long term without getting seizures from the "shimmer". :eek1:
shred5
Premium Member
Two reasons really.. They come from deeper water mostly and are used to more blue light. Most people run their leds with two much blue because they like the pop... This can cause browning in some corals.
Most Sps come form shallower water and are used to a wider spectrum of light and are also hit with UV.. UV is what causes the coloration in some sps especially those that sit out of the water at low tide baking in the sunlight.
Those colors in sps are proteins and pigments used as a sunscreen to block UV..
LEDS don't put out UV, actually some do but they cost more than a led fixture costs right now. Now what will happens to those pigments once you take that UV away? they will adapt by loosing those pigments most likely.
Fact of the matter is leds put out enough par for photosynthesis and chlorophyll and growth that is not a issue. . But the colors have to do with spectrum and UV sometimes
Some people with leds just need to turn the blue down and the white up to see a improvement in color. But there are a few sps that have pigments that act as sunscreens to UV and those colors will most likely change with out the UV.
There are advantages and disadvantages to all lights...
I will most likely never use halides again unless I have a massive tank because of the heat and energy they use.... But I do recognize for some sps they are the better light for coloration. It does not mean that all sps will look ugly and allot will color up nicely under led. For lps and softies I don't think it matters...
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dankreef
New member
Went back to 250 radiums after tweaking with my radions for about a year. Its so nice to know that the spectrum and everything is perfect. When I upgrade here soon i'm going to use both. I always had great colors w led just never the growth. Going to use all blues/uv with 250w radiums in my 300.
souperman
Member
I found that as a beginner to reef tanks a few years back it was a mistake to start with LEDs for me. I spent a lot of time pouring over LED threads trying to find a combination of the best emitters. Looking back I should have stuck with my T5 fixture and ignored the huge wave of excitement for the new tech. I was constantly second guessing my lighting as I ran into common beginner problems.
I have recently switched to a pair of 250W pendants over my tank because I know it works. I can now focus on tuning my routine to maintain correct water parameters now that my light is no longer a scape goat. The colors are now what I feel they should have been all along. There is also the added bonus of no longer worrying about light acclimation since all my LFS lighting is essentially identical to mine. I know what the coral will look like when I bring it back home and stick it in my tank. The often proclaimed energy savings with LEDs should be minimal for me since we live in a cooler climate and my heater is constantly on during 2/3rds of the year.
It's awesome the guys around here who already have the skills to maintain water parameters can get stuff to grow and even color up under LEDs. It was just a mistake for me to jump into an experimental light tech when being new to the hobby.
I have recently switched to a pair of 250W pendants over my tank because I know it works. I can now focus on tuning my routine to maintain correct water parameters now that my light is no longer a scape goat. The colors are now what I feel they should have been all along. There is also the added bonus of no longer worrying about light acclimation since all my LFS lighting is essentially identical to mine. I know what the coral will look like when I bring it back home and stick it in my tank. The often proclaimed energy savings with LEDs should be minimal for me since we live in a cooler climate and my heater is constantly on during 2/3rds of the year.
It's awesome the guys around here who already have the skills to maintain water parameters can get stuff to grow and even color up under LEDs. It was just a mistake for me to jump into an experimental light tech when being new to the hobby.
d2mini
Premium Member
Interesting thoughts but a lot of that doesn't really fit my experience.
I don't like a lot of blue so I ran my leds (visually to my eyes) the same spectrum I run mh which is very white with a hint of blue.
And not only was the color of sps poor or wrong, the growth sucked too.
I still think something is missing with led. I just have no idea what it is! lol
shred5
Premium Member
Human eye really cant see spectrum well... The human eye is more sensitive to certain colors and some it cant see.
Example is the iwaski 250 6500k lamp which appears white to yellow to the human eye,, Now you take the 250 watt radium 20,000k lamp which appears very blue to the human eye.. But in reality the iwaski has far more blue.. It like intensity it hard for the eye to see..
d2mini
Premium Member
Ya, this is true. Although I didn't realize that about the mh bulbs.
But that's exactly why I've been saying all along that these fancy led fixtures with the multiple color channels are doing more harm than good, putting full spectrum control in the hands of those of us who have no idea what spectrum is best and how to obtain that spectrum when our eyes deceive us and our personal visual preference doesn't really apply.
Although.... why is that it that there are many amazing SPS tanks lit by T5? Choosing T5 bulbs is similar to playing with LED color channels, is it not? :crazy1:
Without even pulling up the graphs, I'm pretty sure this is wrong. The Radium 20K has a huge narrow spike around 450nm, a little bit of a green spike around 550 and a miniscule amount of red. So almost all light in the blue range.
The Iwasaki has its spectrum spread out from 400 to 600+ nm so relatively, it has a lot more of its spectrum outside of the blue range.
Yes, our eyes are much more sensitive to light in the green/yellow range, so the Iwasaki will appear even more white/yellow.
The T5s I have seen charts for are much closer to the MH bulbs with a larger spike in the green at 550nm and more red in the 590 to 650 range. There are lots of good graphs in the 'Open Letter to the LED Industry' thread.
shred5
Premium Member
Florescent also putout some uv..
Also they are more wide spectrum but t-5 users don't usually overdrive the blue as much either... But in the beginning of t-5 use in the reef hobby there was also Issues with coral colors.. More lamps came out especially one with more red... T-Took a while for t-5 to get it right too...
I use t-5 mainly... I got rid of a few of my led fixture because of loss of colors on my frag tanks... I still use one for my lps and softies but I am switching them over back to t-5 too....
shred5
Premium Member
radium is almost all in the blue range but it doesn't mean it has more blue. It just means it has less of the other colors. It also has less par than a Iwasaki.... There is more blue in a Iwaski it is just masked by the other colors and like you said the eye is more sensitive to green and yellow making it even appear more yellow than it actually is and thats my point.. Looking at it you would never know it has blue in it but it has quite a bit of blue...
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More blue and less of everything else are the same thing.
Look at it this way. MH bulbs all run at around the same efficiency, so if a 250W radium bulb puts out only 10% of its light outside the blue range, that means 90% of its output is blue.
Say a 250W Iwasiki bulb puts out 50% outside the blue range. That leaves only 50% of its output in the blue range.
50% of 250 watts is less than 90% of 250 watts, so the Iwasaki would put out considerable less of its total output in the blue range.
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