power boat jim
Well-known member
3-4 halides and 13.5 total
Anyone Thinking of Dumping LEDS and going back to Halides
- Thread starter Goldcoastreefs
- Start date
3-4 halides and 13.5 total
power boat jim
Well-known member
This also leaves open the option to not run halides at all during the heat spells of the summer. The radions are more the enough to leave on thier own. Right now though the heat from the MH ares are welcome around here.
Bilk
New member
12hrs total. BMLed and Kessils ramp to 60% then the MH come on for 4.5hrs, then the LEDs ramp down. LEDs at 60% for 9 hrs. I cut back on the intensity of the LEDs since placing the MH over the tank. Not sure what is going to work best yet. MH only up for a week or so. Also working on height above the tank for spread. So that's being played with as well.
Bilk
New member
So far I've only noticed less than a degree in temp rise from the MH. I keep the house cooler in the summer than the winter. The air is too dry to keep it at 68-70 in the winter, so it's generally about 71-72 in the house then.
power boat jim
Well-known member
My issue for summer temps comes more from the room the halides heat then the water temp. They can warm the room the tank is in 5-6 degrees easy. That is the main reason I switched to LEDs 4 years ago.
wilsonreefs
Member
Well this thread is interesting.. I have 2- 250 watt MH's and 2_400 watt MH's over my 240 gallon. I have SPS,LPS,clams and soft corals. I was wanting to go to LED's but they're just too expensive. I've had better than great performance with my MH's, but they're expensive to run when you factor in cost of running them, the heat they put out (I have to run my chiller in the summer), and cost of changing out the bulbs frequently. I was thinking about going to T-5s. In everyone's opinion, stick with what I have, or go with the t-5's? I've been running the Halides for about 7 years. (wish I could find a use for all my old bulbs, lol).
Bilk
New member
Is there a lot or any savings in running T5 vs MH? This bulbs aren't cheap and they need to be replaced pretty often too. Maybe more so that the MH bulbs. They're also not as energy efficient at LED.
Anyone do a cost comparison of MH vs T5?
wilsonreefs
Member
Where I'm seeing the extra cost is, the MH's cost more to run period, they generate way more heat which causes more in AC bills going up (in the summer), and they heat up the water which causes my chiller to have to run more often. The T-5's are just more economical to run. As far as the bulbs go, I pay anywhere from $50 to $60 each for the Halides, the T-5's are around $21. ea. I don't see a really big savings in the price of bulbs, because you'll probably use more of the T-5's, but there will be some savings.
mhucasey
Acros & wieners, oh my!
I can give you a small comparison based on my tank. It has a 36" X 28" footprint. I use an 8X39Watt ATI T5 fixture. The fixture would have been ok on a wider tank, probably up to 48" actually.
I run 2 T5 bulbs for 11.5 hours, total that is 0.897 kilowatt watt hours per day
The remaining 6 bulbs are on for 7 hours for 1.638KWH per day.
Total KWH per day is 2.535. This fixture puts out very high, even PAR, I get mid 300s just off the sand and close to 500 halfway up. Heat output is noticeable but not bad. The AC runs a little extra in the summer to keep up with it, almost no effect on the tank temp.
As a comparison, to achieve the same PAR and coverage, I believe I would need a 250 watt metal halide at a minimum along with 2-4T5s to eliminate shading and give me dawn and dusk lighting. Maybe someone could fill in the specifics of how many would be needed to get good intensity and par in a 3-4 foot wide tank.
When I looked at the two in comparison I vaguely remember I needed maybe 30% more power for Metal halides and would have a lot more heat to deal with. I went with T5s only marginally because of electrical use or heat. I went with them mainly because the most intensely colored reefs seemed to primarily use T5s. In the end, only coral color matters to me.
mhucasey
Acros & wieners, oh my!
Oh and T5 bulbs can go about 10 months in an actively cooled fixture like an ATI power module. I buy bulbs when they go on sale and have purchased quite a few less than 20 bucks a piece
Bilk
New member
Thanks for posting that comparison. Wish I liked T5, but the light always seemed flat to my eye. I know that there are plenty of beautiful tanks running only T5 too. Going to hang in there with the LEDs and see where it goes. Hope the MH LED combo works well.
Reel North
New King of Quarantine
I've just switched from radions to MH. In 2 days of running MH I have full PE all day, my anemone has almost doubled in size and some corals that never showed any signs of life have their polyps out. Granted I will need to put a couple fans in the hood or make another one with better venting and a bit taller to accommodate the lights.
I know that the electricity will be more, but for the amount of time and money I invest in this tank it's almost irrelevant. I ran 3 radions on my tank @90% power and I would consider it a failed experiment. For the amount of money they cost for what they really did for my tank I would say I'm at the very least disappointed.
I'm excited to see what these halides are going to do; if the last 2 days is any indication, the results should speak for themselves
I know that the electricity will be more, but for the amount of time and money I invest in this tank it's almost irrelevant. I ran 3 radions on my tank @90% power and I would consider it a failed experiment. For the amount of money they cost for what they really did for my tank I would say I'm at the very least disappointed.
I'm excited to see what these halides are going to do; if the last 2 days is any indication, the results should speak for themselves
Fudz Cwerner
New member
I think you had your radions up way too high. 90% is very bright. I have seen many 30" deep SPS tanks that dont peak over 60% at 15" above the water line, and thats after acclimating the corals over several months. I know each setup is different, but lots of tanks have exceptional PE with radions.
+1 - When I switched back to metal halides from LEDs, everything grew so much better and showed more life.
mandarin417
New member
I attended a great presentation by Dr. Sanjay Joshi last weekend in Houston at the Marine Aquarium Society of Houston’s (MARSH) Reef Currents event.
He fully converted his 500 gallon reef tank from 400W MH 14K Ushios to all Radion LEDs. Part of his move to LEDs was the result of losing his tank to a major chiller failure when he was out of town.
Here is some of what I heard in that presentation:
Figure that you will need 2 LED fixtures to replace every 400W MH.
Cost to run LED fixtures compared to 400W MH ballasts is nearly identical – no savings on running the lights in terms of electricity used.
You do save electricity by not having to run a chiller and chiller pump.
LEDs offer Sanjay a bit less growth but not significant. Example - maybe two years to grow a massive SPS head under MH and 2.5 years under LEDs.
Shading under corals is an issue.
He places his LED fixtures based on light spilling out of the tank. So when he sees the beams of light just contained within the walls of his tank, he chooses this as the right height.
He likes a white tank so turns down the blue LEDs.
He would like to see improved power ratios on LED systems.
He would also like to see even more lens spread on the LED fixtures.
He did not supplement his MH tanks with any other lighting nor does he do that with LEDs.
You can find more of his information published on http://www.advancedaquarist.com/
Sanjay is an engaging and terrific speaker. He bases his decisions on empirical testing. Don’t ever misse a change to hear him speak in person.
He fully converted his 500 gallon reef tank from 400W MH 14K Ushios to all Radion LEDs. Part of his move to LEDs was the result of losing his tank to a major chiller failure when he was out of town.
Here is some of what I heard in that presentation:
Figure that you will need 2 LED fixtures to replace every 400W MH.
Cost to run LED fixtures compared to 400W MH ballasts is nearly identical – no savings on running the lights in terms of electricity used.
You do save electricity by not having to run a chiller and chiller pump.
LEDs offer Sanjay a bit less growth but not significant. Example - maybe two years to grow a massive SPS head under MH and 2.5 years under LEDs.
Shading under corals is an issue.
He places his LED fixtures based on light spilling out of the tank. So when he sees the beams of light just contained within the walls of his tank, he chooses this as the right height.
He likes a white tank so turns down the blue LEDs.
He would like to see improved power ratios on LED systems.
He would also like to see even more lens spread on the LED fixtures.
He did not supplement his MH tanks with any other lighting nor does he do that with LEDs.
You can find more of his information published on http://www.advancedaquarist.com/
Sanjay is an engaging and terrific speaker. He bases his decisions on empirical testing. Don’t ever misse a change to hear him speak in person.
mandarin417
New member
The worrisome reefkeeper.
Getting back into reefing after a decade of sitting it out I have come to realize that most of us have an obsession on trying to make sure we have the best lighting for our tanks. It's good to care that much about the critters in the water. At some point though I have to take deep breath and realize that is it OK that I still like MH lamps without T5 supplements.
But I still ponder my choice when I lay my head down at night. So what I gather the best system out there now is a combo of MH, LED, T5's and a VHO if you can find one. (insert smiley face here). Thank goodness Power Compacts have not made a comeback (yet).
Getting back into reefing after a decade of sitting it out I have come to realize that most of us have an obsession on trying to make sure we have the best lighting for our tanks. It's good to care that much about the critters in the water. At some point though I have to take deep breath and realize that is it OK that I still like MH lamps without T5 supplements.
But I still ponder my choice when I lay my head down at night. So what I gather the best system out there now is a combo of MH, LED, T5's and a VHO if you can find one. (insert smiley face here). Thank goodness Power Compacts have not made a comeback (yet).
d2mini
Premium Member
Yep, that was a good talk.
And Sanjay pretty much echoed everything many of us have been saying here as well, with the main point being you need twice the fixtures the manufacturers tell you that you do.
In fact, one thing you left out of the bullet points above is that Ecotech actually recommended two more fixtures than Sanjay ended up using due to the high cost.
He also talked about the additional costs from running heaters during the cooler weather which took away some of those savings from the chiller removal.
His main reason for removing the chiller seemed to be not about cost, but about removing a point of failure. His chiller failed while he was away resulting in the loss of a lot of livestock. By removing the chiller from the equation, he lessened the chance of another catastrophic failure. Unless of course his heaters malfunction at the same time his apex malfunctions.
mandarin417
New member
Thanks for filling in some of the gaps I left out Dennis.
I also came away with the impression that if he could be assured that his chiller would never fail he would go back to MH.
Bob
I also came away with the impression that if he could be assured that his chiller would never fail he would go back to MH.
Bob
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