d2mini
Premium Member
Yep, I think you're right.
I too had the feeling he was satisfied enough, but not overly impressed.
The comments about his electricity usage compared to his neighbors was funny. Funny because it's true! :lol:
Anyone Thinking of Dumping LEDS and going back to Halides
- Thread starter Goldcoastreefs
- Start date
Yep, I think you're right.
I too had the feeling he was satisfied enough, but not overly impressed.
The comments about his electricity usage compared to his neighbors was funny. Funny because it's true! :lol:
power boat jim
Well-known member
I dont believe this could be the case, It simply defies the laws of physics. If two leds units are using the same wattage (electricity) as a 400w MH then there the heat output would be the same and you would still need a chiller. Truth is the two LEDs that replace the the MH unit do not use the same amount of electricty. A Radion running at 100% is 170w. No One runs them at 100% 8hrs per day so you probably use 1/2 to 2/3 the rated power per unit and hence dont need a chiller.
mandarin417
New member
Hi power boat jim
The great thing about Sanjay is that he collects and analyzes the data and presents it graphically. He measured his electrical usage on his MH and LED fixtures and they ended up being identical - as a matter of fact his electrical usage on the LEDs was just a tad more than what it was with his MH fixtures used.
I have to disagree that because two devices use the same wattage that they will generate the same heat - where energy is being converted to heat. Electrical resistance falls into the equation. MH lamps are producing more heat at the light source than LEDs. Put your hand on the surface of a lit MH lamp and the on the surface of an LED fixture.
The great thing about Sanjay is that he collects and analyzes the data and presents it graphically. He measured his electrical usage on his MH and LED fixtures and they ended up being identical - as a matter of fact his electrical usage on the LEDs was just a tad more than what it was with his MH fixtures used.
I have to disagree that because two devices use the same wattage that they will generate the same heat - where energy is being converted to heat. Electrical resistance falls into the equation. MH lamps are producing more heat at the light source than LEDs. Put your hand on the surface of a lit MH lamp and the on the surface of an LED fixture.
Radioheadx14
Active member
but losing his halides most likely also made his heaters ramp up more than ever unless he kept his house at 80F. I always ran halides for a 5-6 hour photoperiod with light supplementation before and after, with LEDs, I feel like i need a longer photoperiod which might end up being the same amount of power use in the end (adding in extra heater usage)
overexposed
Acroholic
Keep in mind also that many people run them longer than 8 hours when the dimming cycles are taken into account, and 2 Radions at 170 watts each is just short of 400 watts - 340. So yeah there probably is a difference in power usage, but a negligible difference (Who notices a swing of 20-30 dollars on their power bill? That wouldn't even register for me, with the way our bill swings from season to season here in Canada.)
Also regarding the heat, MH fixtures have a tendency to aim their heat directy at the surface of the tank. LEDs often utilize fans on heat sinks which suck the heat out of the diodes and blow it upwards, so the bright side doesn't radiate any heat.
Wazzel
New member
I can see it being true. If you run two Radions for every one 400 W MH you are looking at 400 vs 340 watts. Run time on the LED unit is going to be longer than MH. Total energy usage would be about the same.
overexposed
Acroholic
Lol poor Jim we all jumped down his throat at the same time :$
mandarin417
New member
Oh I hope Jim doesn't think I jumped! Yes, Sanjay now runs heaters all the time without the MH.
I had to go and look some stuff up. Pretty much energy = light energy plus heat energy. You could produce better light with less heat and where the heat is produced (at the light fixture or at the power supply/ballast) impacts water temp.
Bottom line is that Sanjay had measured and collected data that he presented to us from an energy perspective.
Now it will be interesting to see the data Dana Riddle is collecting on coral growth and color using LED lighting.
I had to go and look some stuff up. Pretty much energy = light energy plus heat energy. You could produce better light with less heat and where the heat is produced (at the light fixture or at the power supply/ballast) impacts water temp.
Bottom line is that Sanjay had measured and collected data that he presented to us from an energy perspective.
Now it will be interesting to see the data Dana Riddle is collecting on coral growth and color using LED lighting.
power boat jim
Well-known member
Well im no great physics mind but if I remember correctly if a device has more resistence it should create more heat. Also they dont use the same wattage when they operate, the 2 Radion LEDS use only a little more then half the wattage of A MH lamp under normal conditions. Thats the part where the equation doesnt balance. Thats also the reason LEDS are more efficient since as you say if they did use the same amount of energy (400 watts) the the LED would produce a ton more light at that energy level. I would need to his energy graphs to really understand his thinking on this.
power boat jim
Well-known member
No worries!!! After using LEDs for years the run time between the MH and LEDs may be a little longer on the leds since you can use them from sun up to sun down. Most people use MH for 8-10 hrs and use a supplemental system for low light times. I will say this, I saved 30 dollars a month on electric when I converted from 3 MH to 6 sols. Thats why I cant understand the way his numbers a work out for the MH to LED conversion on his experiment.
Jim, the difference is probably in increased heater time. It takes X amount of watts to keep a tank at a certain temp, it doesn't matter where the wattage comes from, lights, heaters, pumps, HVAC, etc. A drop in watts in one area will mean an increase in another area. An overage of wattage will mean a means to cool the tank, with HVAC, chiller of evaporative cooling. In colder climates the heater may be needed far more than our warmer climate.
power boat jim
Well-known member
That is a different story then him saying two Radions use as much energy as a 400w mh. Heck I could have told you you need heaters when you run LEDs. I wouldnt contest that point. I have 4 of them running during the winter on my tank. I even opted to run a MH instead of a 4th radion just for the heat. There is an energy savings with the LEDs, especially during the summer. Not so much of an overall savings on the energy needed for operating the tank in the winter though.
d2mini
Premium Member
Like mandarin said, he was talking about the two radion pros vs the single mh.
I don't recall the exact difference, myself.
At the end he discussed total $ saved and I think he said it would be a couple years to pay off each radion. Plus you would save even more by not buying the chiller in the first place, if you were just starting out. Regardless, the bulk of the savings seemed to be from not running a 1hp chiller.
I also remember him saying something about ecotech needing to improve the efficiency of the power supply? Mandarin might remember more than me on that.
I don't recall the exact difference, myself.
At the end he discussed total $ saved and I think he said it would be a couple years to pay off each radion. Plus you would save even more by not buying the chiller in the first place, if you were just starting out. Regardless, the bulk of the savings seemed to be from not running a 1hp chiller.
I also remember him saying something about ecotech needing to improve the efficiency of the power supply? Mandarin might remember more than me on that.
JB NY
Active member
2 Radions use almost as much electricity as the one 400 watt MH. He saves only about 60 watts per MH fixture. Really that is not much savings especially if you have to run them longer or run heaters more. My heaters pull 10 amps when they are going, they now run most of the night when I went from a canopy with MH fixtures to a pendant using MH. If I were to go with LED the LEDs would consume more electricity than my MH and my heaters would probably have to turn on even more.
Did Sanjay not touch on color while in Texas? He was very careful not get into it at MACNA, so I was hoping that he would here. He only would mention color offline if you could get him to talk about it.
He was using 3 panels to replace each 400W when he talked at MACNA... maybe he cut back.
He was using 3 panels to replace each 400W when he talked at MACNA... maybe he cut back.
JB NY
Active member
Yeah the ecotech pulls like 170 watts from the wall but 2.6 amps, very inefficient.
Wazzel
New member
It is roughly 3 years and really fixture dependent. A AI hydra52 vs a really nice MH T-5 combo fixture was in the 1.5-2 year range. If you go with a simple reflector in a canopy it is more like 5.
power boat jim
Well-known member
Not for the sake of being petty, but for one of accuracy. I dont know of anyone right now running Radions at 100%.Right now my Radions are reading 97 watts each at peak for 7 hrs a day. I have 3 of them. If I put up a 4th it would be 1/3 as many watts running my 3 400w MH lights. Four is all that is needed since the over flows take up a good portion of the tank on each side. I dont see how that is not a considerable amount of energy saved.
Now add in the heaters and to get the temp back up, that will take a bite out of those savings no question. There are some advantages to heating the tank with heaters over lights in the summer months IMO.
d2mini
Premium Member
But he was running 400w MH.
In his talk he discussed that he likes a white light, so he ran the fixture at 100% all channels except for the two blue channels which were turned down a little bit.
We are talking about a 500g tank that's at least 30" deep. Not sure what height he ended up hanging them from.
I had done the calculations for my own tank using the hour by hour power usage charts in my AquaticLog account. I had even posted a jpg of it here somewhere.
And over a year, just talking about the lighting, I was saving maybe $100/year in electricity running the 4 Radion Pros compared to 3 250w MH and 4 80w T5 combo.
Similar threads
