power boat jim
Well-known member
And that in itself may be the problem with his study. He has chosen a set up that probably applies to 1-2 percent of the hobby and now those results are interpreted as the norm.
Anyone Thinking of Dumping LEDS and going back to Halides
- Thread starter Goldcoastreefs
- Start date
And that in itself may be the problem with his study. He has chosen a set up that probably applies to 1-2 percent of the hobby and now those results are interpreted as the norm.
so......are we all going back to halides or what? currently i have two ai sol blues over a 74 gallon rimless cube (24*24*30 high) armpit soaker i know! other than controllability, not impressed. thinking of getting a lumen bright mini pendant and run a 250 watt radium with luxcore ballast and be done with all this fiddling with leds as a primary light source. maybe some led strips for accent lighting.
JB NY
Active member
I am not too sure about that, I think he is stating what people are starting to figure out.
I have privately chatted with more than a few people who have successfully made the switch to LED from MH and the ones who feel they are successful have all told me the key is to use at least twice the recommended amount of LED and set them to a more white color so you get a full spectrum. Then, if the look is too white for you, you need to supplement on top of that with some kind of blue light. The end result is no or very little savings on the lighting electricity cost, but you may save on other aspects (chiller etc).
muttley101
Never go full retard!
First of all welcome to RC! Lol you are coming into a very active thread about LED,T5's, and MH... I know there is alot of posts on this topic, but you may want to go back and skim through to catchup in case you had a question that has been answered. Somewhere along the line you will have a good laugh too. Anyways I say do whats best for your tank. You'll know when a good change is made or a bad is made by looking at your corals. They are ultimately the ones affected from any change. I found that any standpoint on this topic is going to offend someone. Good luck, and God Speed!
d2mini
Premium Member
Jim, I'm not sure what you mean here.
power boat jim
Well-known member
Sorry, it made perfect sense to me
Hope this helps- Im seeing that conclusions are being drawn from his study on energy consumption using LEDS. Trouble is he used a set up thats not the norm in the hobby. Sure the numbers he got were real but he is using the Radions in a way that is not really representative of the majority of the way the rest of the hobby uses them. Does that make any more sense? or am I way off base here.The 3 guys that I know that use Radions over the higher-end SPS tanks run all channels at 100%. That 2.6 amps is real BTW - they kill-a-watt at around 270 watts at the wall. BTW - all three of them are collecting M80s and LumenXXX stuff... they have had enough.
I imagine that there are plenty of people who would be happy with a radion at 97 watts, but they probably should have used 150W HQI and not 400W MH before. I totally buy the argument that people might have had too much light from time to time.
I imagine that there are plenty of people who would be happy with a radion at 97 watts, but they probably should have used 150W HQI and not 400W MH before. I totally buy the argument that people might have had too much light from time to time.
power boat jim
Well-known member
I cant run mine that high, Things start to fade out at 75% intensity and thats only with white, green and red at 45-50 % the other three slides are at 100%. There seems to be sweet spot about 60-70% overall intensity and the slider for K at about 14000. Thats just my observation though.
power boat jim
Well-known member
d2mini
Premium Member
Sorry, it made perfect sense to me
Yes, thanks.
In response, he's still using LED to replace his MH setup.
So if you were using 250w mh before, sure I guess you would use less power on your LED's. You still need the same amount of units IMO to get the same light spread/coverage.
So it should be pretty relative and the energy savings should be pretty similar either way.
JB NY
Active member
They pull pretty close to rated output with electronic...around 255-260w. Magnetic are an additional about 10 and 20%. M80 HQI are even more... about 320-330w ish.
Keep in mind that HQI can sometimes be 50-100% more output with 20-25% more watts, so they get to be a "bargain" compared to 250W on magnetic or electronic. If you use the radiated watts findings posted on here last summer, it takes nearly 5+ Radion Pros 15s at 100% (a bit more than 2.5 Pro 30s) to equal the radiated watts of a M80 HQI, so that is about 330 watts of HQI is still better than 3 radion pros even running at 60% (270*3*.6 = 486). Again, I totally understand that people probably moved away from high energy MH and was happy with fewer panels and less wattage... but they might even be happier now with a lower wattage halide setup. 150W HQI are NO JOKE and grow coral like crazy and might be a good option for a lot of people who don't want 400W or HQI again.
Keep in mind that HQI can sometimes be 50-100% more output with 20-25% more watts, so they get to be a "bargain" compared to 250W on magnetic or electronic. If you use the radiated watts findings posted on here last summer, it takes nearly 5+ Radion Pros 15s at 100% (a bit more than 2.5 Pro 30s) to equal the radiated watts of a M80 HQI, so that is about 330 watts of HQI is still better than 3 radion pros even running at 60% (270*3*.6 = 486). Again, I totally understand that people probably moved away from high energy MH and was happy with fewer panels and less wattage... but they might even be happier now with a lower wattage halide setup. 150W HQI are NO JOKE and grow coral like crazy and might be a good option for a lot of people who don't want 400W or HQI again.
muttley101
Never go full retard!
Im pretty sure MH's pull some gas from the wall. Whether LED's, T5's, or MH's... I don't think the coral jumps out of your tank and complains about the utility bill. That is my wife's job.
If LED's took more power than MH's and did a better job than anything else I used in the past.. I'd be all over that.... Think Sanjay quit MH's because heating issues.... Heating issue affected his corals in turn he eliminated a source of failure, his chiller. This cost savings and power consumption data is cool for us the hobbyist, but in reality the coral can give (blank). Come on guys.. we are not in this hobby for saving money...
If LED's took more power than MH's and did a better job than anything else I used in the past.. I'd be all over that.... Think Sanjay quit MH's because heating issues.... Heating issue affected his corals in turn he eliminated a source of failure, his chiller. This cost savings and power consumption data is cool for us the hobbyist, but in reality the coral can give (blank). Come on guys.. we are not in this hobby for saving money...
power boat jim
Well-known member
But spending more then you have to simply makes no sense either.
power boat jim
Well-known member
Good heavens man that was quite the project. Thanks for the link.
mandarin417
New member
Hey Dennis - I will pop Sanjay a note to see if he has published what we saw on the weekend.
I came away with these points from the data he collected rather than just postulated:
Really insignificant savings keeping the lighting in the systems comparable in light output when moving from 400W MH to 2 Ecotechs.
His main reason for going to LED was to reduce failure points like a chiller failing which cooked his tank with the 3 400W MH's he used to use.
He probably would still be using MH if all things were equal. Perceptually - growth is both slower and greater compared to his MH setup. Sanjay said he was starting to experiment with lower intensity settings on his LEDs. He also thinks a big energy opportunity is in power consumption by circulation pumps.
I think the most revealing study is still pending with laboratory data by Dana Riddle on growth with LED under different colors.
Sanjay didn't take a hard position on any lighting method other than he likes to keep it simple and that's part of the reason he didn't supplement with T5's on his big tank. I also recall that he turned on his 3 400W MH lamps sequentially 1/2 hour apart and off in the same order which creating spawning behaviors in may of his fish. Each MH was on for 9 hours which in total provides him 10 hours of tank lighting. I also recall his lights didn't come on until about noon his time.
If you have any local conferences coming up - this would be a great presentation since this is such a very active topic.
Bob
I came away with these points from the data he collected rather than just postulated:
Really insignificant savings keeping the lighting in the systems comparable in light output when moving from 400W MH to 2 Ecotechs.
His main reason for going to LED was to reduce failure points like a chiller failing which cooked his tank with the 3 400W MH's he used to use.
He probably would still be using MH if all things were equal. Perceptually - growth is both slower and greater compared to his MH setup. Sanjay said he was starting to experiment with lower intensity settings on his LEDs. He also thinks a big energy opportunity is in power consumption by circulation pumps.
I think the most revealing study is still pending with laboratory data by Dana Riddle on growth with LED under different colors.
Sanjay didn't take a hard position on any lighting method other than he likes to keep it simple and that's part of the reason he didn't supplement with T5's on his big tank. I also recall that he turned on his 3 400W MH lamps sequentially 1/2 hour apart and off in the same order which creating spawning behaviors in may of his fish. Each MH was on for 9 hours which in total provides him 10 hours of tank lighting. I also recall his lights didn't come on until about noon his time.
If you have any local conferences coming up - this would be a great presentation since this is such a very active topic.
Bob
muttley101
Never go full retard!
You are correct...Some people wash their own cars.. some go through car washes.. it makes no sense, but people want to simplify their lives to focus on other things and buy time.
JB NY
Active member
Thanks. haha, yeah that was a side project that sort of took on a life of it's own.
Raul-7
Member
He means that most users don't turn blues down on their LEDs.
d2mini
Premium Member
Must be those people who thought the dress was white and gold. Losers! :lolspin:
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