maidia
New member
I want Phoenix 14k 250w come back..Can't find them any where..Right now I run with 2 x plusrite 250w..a little happy but still want to get the Phoenix..
Hope Phoenix re-produce those bulbs again soon..
Anyone Thinking of Dumping LEDS and going back to Halides
- Thread starter Goldcoastreefs
- Start date
I want Phoenix 14k 250w come back..Can't find them any where..Right now I run with 2 x plusrite 250w..a little happy but still want to get the Phoenix..
Hope Phoenix re-produce those bulbs again soon..
overexposed
Acroholic
Define a bunch.. 6 or more???
how many new LED reef tanks when up and running last year?.. Better get out there a-preaching ..."all hail the Radion".. (sg reference)
I don't think one is inherently better than another photon wise.. period
I never said one should switch one way or another.. thus the "scolding" earlier. You want preaching I'd look in the mirror..
The worst thing I said is I think you "can" emulate Radions w/ LED's What a sacrilege..
THERE is absolutely NO scientific basis to believe photons from a MH are "different" than photons from an LED. If anyone believes that they moved from fact to religion..
That there are different individual wavelength differences between all lighting.. sure. Bottom line is that you "should" be able to match any light w/ another within reason. Of course some practical considerations come into play..
but the bottom line .. a 500nm photon is a 500nm photon regardless of source and when it hits the coral it too could care less where it came from...
Dude, I was just giving you the summary you asked for since you didn't feel like going back and reading a couple years worth of posts. This conversation has literally gone back and forth like this for ages now.
Every couple of months someone like you discovers the thread and tries to prove that LED can do just as good a job, and the MH fanatics argue back that to us we prefer the results that MH give, and then the LED guy gives up and leaves.
We aren't trying to say that LED doesnt grow corals, or that they never will, or that a photon at 500 nm from one source is different from a 500 nm photon emitted from the other source.... it has been admitted multiple times in the history of this thread that a proton is a proton. We just prefer the results that we are getting from MH over the results that we got from whatever version of LED fixture we tried. That's what the thread topic is about: moving to MH after trying LED, and sharing our experiences of how that switch worked out. And there have many more than six of us who have made the switch and posted about it over the course of this thread's life.
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BTW Radion is an LED light, Radium is a halide bulb... I've seen you make that typo a couple times now.
Define a bunch.. 6 or more???
how many new LED reef tanks when up and running last year?.. Better get out there a-preaching ..."all hail the Radion".. (sg reference)
I don't think one is inherently better than another photon wise.. period
I never said one should switch one way or another.. thus the "scolding" earlier. You want preaching I'd look in the mirror..
The worst thing I said is I think you "can" emulate Radions w/ LED's What a sacrilege..
THERE is absolutely NO scientific basis to believe photons from a MH are "different" than photons from an LED. If anyone believes that they moved from fact to religion..
That there are different individual wavelength differences between all lighting.. sure. Bottom line is that you "should" be able to match any light w/ another within reason. Of course some practical considerations come into play..
but the bottom line .. a 500nm photon is a 500nm photon regardless of source and when it hits the coral it too could care less where it came from...
6??? You really need to go back and read this thread. There are probably 6 just on this page including myself who went back to MH or T5. Jeez. And as far as how many tanks were running LED last year, check the threads. Probably thousands of tanks have been lit by LED over several years. I had LED as my main lighting source at least 5 years ago.
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Food for thought:
http://aquariumledstudy.com/
a side note: It is almost impossible to be "taken seriously" by someone who has already made up their mind, unless, of course,they agree with you ..
I understand now, American Aquarium Products. :wildone: Seriously?
I know since you have not bothered to read the thread that you don't realize I am an led supporter and look forward to it continuing to grow. With that said, I run MH, VHO and LEDs over my tank. You will find many others in this thread no support LEDs, even if we choose not to use them exclusively.
oreo57
Well-known member
Yea the 2 always look similar..
Hey I was doing just fine till "someone" thought I drifted too far afield.
Probably read 1/2 doz. "like this" thread at multiple web sites.. SSDD.
And as I said I NEVER said once one was better than another and I get this:
Any you want me to chill.. LOL
Beyond what worked and didn't work for people is the real problem why it did or didn't work..
Blaming the light without understanding the light is a bit err premature..
directly related to this thread and LED's could be led density, spectrum, spread, phase of the moon .. who knows..
I really, really, really, don't care what light people use.. it is their choice..
sorry if I fed into the religion.. Let's see where that St. Mary's study goes shall we? Probably a little better than the usual he said she said..
Of course you will get the usual not long enough, or biased, or wrong bulb if it was a .....,corporate sponser, ect. You get my drift....
http://aquariumledstudy.com/?blogsub=confirming#blog_subscription-3
I will not even say , if that is the conclusion, LED is better than MH. I'll still sit on the fence of "both work"..
Again.. St. Marys.... not my words..
chadfarmer
Premium Member
you couldn't get me to go to all led again unless they let me try the led light out for free for a few months. put your money where your mouth is. I already did it in the past.
Wazzel
New member
I get sucked into thread like this, not because a person choose a over b because they like a better. I get sucked in because of the silly reasons used to justify. If a mh user tried a different bulb and did not like it that would be all they had to say. For some reason with a different tech it has to be some tech sounding smart reason. We are all hobbyest and for the most part have few clues about why what we are doing works or not. Some of us might have some experiance in some part of the hobby and actually know. For example, I am an mechanical engineer that has designed pumps and hydraulic systems for a living. I understand them. The rest is just sticking with what I tried that worked.
Wazzel, I think you read every thread.... you are everywhere!!! :lolspin:
Wazzel
New member
OPP's SEE ....... before I saw Surreals post
Read above that was written.. Soo predictable even before the ink is dry.
You find no issues with a study done by a guy who works for a company and claims his product is superior? FWIW corals don't only spawn when conditions are ideal, they also can spawn when they are stressed, as a survival mechanism. That study is nothing but flawed and questionable. Do you also work for AAP?
oreo57
Well-known member
oreo57
Well-known member
Why don't you pony a few thousand up and do a non-biased study...
I at least will await the complete writeup before pulling out the witch burning post.....
Take the tin foil hat off for once.. not everything is a conspiracy..
no, no connection to ANY part of the lighting, aquarium industry..
AAP has zero credibility here as they have shilled their products here, had their employees shill for them here and if you do not understand why that is wrong, then there is nothing I can say to help you. Companies with real and legitimate products do not need to shill to sell products, those that do lack morals and ethics. If a company will give up ethics in business, what makes anyone think they will keep their ethics when dealing with customers?
mhucasey
Acros & wieners, oh my!
Like many of the threads on this board, its usefulness depends on the people who are posting paying attention to the title and overall theme of the thread. Correctly, many who post here actually left LEDs and went back to traditional technologies, primarily MH.
They post about their experiences in the hopes that they will help someone who isn't having success with LEDs. Perhaps the collection of myth, experience, wisdom, and anecdote will help someone decide to switch back. Perhaps it will give them some ideas on how to fix issues with their LED setups. Either way, that is why no matter how ridiculous this thread gets (and sometimes its pretty ridiculous) it's still of value. There are some good and reasonable folks here using LED who will engage in a healthy debate and keep the debate fresh(looking at you Wazzel).
Sweeping generalizations to follow:
In contrast, those that spent a lot of money on their LED system and are feeling defensive about their purchase also like to post here. In the vast majority of those posts there is either an attack on the intelligence of people who want to use proven technologies, or a regurgitation of pseudo science(frankly close to 100% of all "Science" related to the hobby is pseusoscience) that shows that LEDs are superior, or an exaggerated claim of amazing color and growth. Of course when you look at their posting history you see pretty much barren tanks because a lot of these same exaggerators are setting up their fist LED rig. Many times its over their first reef tank and their has barely been enough time to grow algae, much less anything else.
So to boil it down: some people who really really like keeping the toughest corals and want to have the best results will use whatever works the best no matter what. And the proof for people who feel this way? It's in amazing tanks. Joe Peck can show pictures of his tank till the cows come home because a picture of his tank is a pretty darn good argument.
They post about their experiences in the hopes that they will help someone who isn't having success with LEDs. Perhaps the collection of myth, experience, wisdom, and anecdote will help someone decide to switch back. Perhaps it will give them some ideas on how to fix issues with their LED setups. Either way, that is why no matter how ridiculous this thread gets (and sometimes its pretty ridiculous) it's still of value. There are some good and reasonable folks here using LED who will engage in a healthy debate and keep the debate fresh(looking at you Wazzel).
Sweeping generalizations to follow:
In contrast, those that spent a lot of money on their LED system and are feeling defensive about their purchase also like to post here. In the vast majority of those posts there is either an attack on the intelligence of people who want to use proven technologies, or a regurgitation of pseudo science(frankly close to 100% of all "Science" related to the hobby is pseusoscience) that shows that LEDs are superior, or an exaggerated claim of amazing color and growth. Of course when you look at their posting history you see pretty much barren tanks because a lot of these same exaggerators are setting up their fist LED rig. Many times its over their first reef tank and their has barely been enough time to grow algae, much less anything else.
So to boil it down: some people who really really like keeping the toughest corals and want to have the best results will use whatever works the best no matter what. And the proof for people who feel this way? It's in amazing tanks. Joe Peck can show pictures of his tank till the cows come home because a picture of his tank is a pretty darn good argument.
GroktheCube
New member
I agree that more LEDs over a larger area does a lot to reduce problems with shading, but it also gets pricey.
I envision reflectors for LEDs as a means of eliminating issues with coverage/shading, without the need to run as many lights.
I think that, combined with phosphors that match the wants of hobbyists in terms of spectrum, could be something the pushes LED to the top.
shred5
Premium Member
See you really cant do that because the reflectors are what gives the leds a big chunk of their efficiency. Leds are small allowing for very efficient reflectors that shoot the light straight down and waist very little light..
Same with t-5 you take away their reflectors and they are no different than any other fluorescent. The smaller lamp allows for a smaller reflector. LEDs are still a little different though because they are more of a point source.
Thing about leds is they are very directional and spreading them out will help some but you still mainly lights the top plus now you are taking more leds. Another advantage is energy efficiency and you start adding more leds another advantage led has starts disappears. Plus now you are adding more heat and more cost because of larger or more heat sinks.
What needs to happen is a curved fixture where the leds in front actually shoot light back and the leds in back shoot light more forward. Of coarse on deeper tanks this can become a problem because you still cant get the light down below.
The shadowing is a hard thing to really correct without taking away some of the stuff that gives them their advantage,,,
Led is awsum for horizontal footcandles but horrible for vertical footcandles when lit from above.
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