Anyone Thinking of Dumping LEDS and going back to Halides

[zachts]

Like I said we're supposed to want what's best for our corals so why not put a light over them that you know will keep them alive and thriving?

I know for a fact LEDs will grow coral no problems. I'm not a halide user, so can't comment on those and maybe my opinion here doesn't matter because of that fact, but I am a VHO veteran of over a decade and successful SPS keeper for much of that time up to present. I can attest to the LEDs I put over my frag tanks growing coral far better than the VHO's I was using (same VHO lighting I am using on my display, just lousy maintenance on the frag tank) only thing I changed was the lighting and guess what the corals are growing faster and look more colorful than they did before.

It seems this thread is staying open just to argue mute points. If you like MH use MH. If you want to save electricity and not have the heat issues if they are a problem then switch to T5. If you want even less heat issues and more controllability options and even lower electric bills do your research and switch to LED

All three of these lighting technologies will fail if the user does not do their homework or buys crappy equipment. Do your homework and don't cheap out.

If you happy with your current lighting whatever it is don't switch!!! Focus on improving the other aspects of you hobby like maintenance and filtration. Lighting gets blamed way too much it is just that people can say Oh, I have the same bulb as so, and so ,but my corals look bad so they assume it must be some other thing they are doing wrong. With LEDs if something goes wrong everyone seems to blame the LEDs without first investigating other possibilities.

Sorry, I didn't mean for this to turn into such a rant but it's my opinion FWIW.

 

[Real Reefer]

I know for a fact LEDs will grow coral no problems. I'm not a halide user, so can't comment on those and maybe my opinion here doesn't matter because of that fact, but I am a VHO veteran of over a decade and successful SPS keeper for much of that time up to present. I can attest to the LEDs I put over my frag tanks growing coral far better than the VHO's I was using (same VHO lighting I am using on my display, just lousy maintenance on the frag tank) only thing I changed was the lighting and guess what the corals are growing faster and look more colorful than they did before.

It seems this thread is staying open just to argue mute points. If you like MH use MH. If you want to save electricity and not have the heat issues if they are a problem then switch to T5. If you want even less heat issues and more controllability options and even lower electric bills do your research and switch to LED

All three of these lighting technologies will fail if the user does not do their homework or buys crappy equipment. Do your homework and don't cheap out.

If you happy with your current lighting whatever it is don't switch!!! Focus on improving the other aspects of you hobby like maintenance and filtration. Lighting gets blamed way too much it is just that people can say Oh, I have the same bulb as so, and so ,but my corals look bad so they assume it must be some other thing they are doing wrong. With LEDs if something goes wrong everyone seems to blame the LEDs without first investigating other possibilities.

Sorry, I didn't mean for this to turn into such a rant but it's my opinion FWIW.

There we go that's what we should be doing comparing leds to vho lol! Jp man I had to say it lol I respect everyone's opinion on this, I'll stick with what's best for my coral though,I don't use any kind of cooling device on my tank so heat isn't a big deal at all because it doesn't affect anything,. My electric bill is maybe 4 bucks more then when I ran led so I'll def stick with the halide lol, Like I said I respect everyone's opionion and no hard feelings toward anyone

 

[Ron Reefman]

Almost 18 months of you guys debating MH & t5 vs leds in this thread and you're still at it. I'll give you kudos for persistence.

MH, t5 and leds are all able to grow coral and keep a healthy tank. Over the last 4 years I've used all 3 and for the past year all 4 tanks have been 100% leds. The all have advantages and disadvantages. So pick the one you like and enjoy it. :beer:

Guys like Real Reefer who said, "The debate should be what's better halide vs t5 leds shouldn't be in the convo until all the problems are solved and there done tweaking with stuff trying to get the right spectrum, Sry guys it's the truth lol" are just living in a dream world... or the dark ages... or a state of delusion...:wave:

 

[TropTrea]

Lol!! Sry guy but there's a reason why companies are putting out a new led every 6 months and adding more color each time! Looks like someone else is living in a dream world lol can't argue with the truth I'm Sry you don't like hearing the truth from us. Do you hear people questioning metal halides or t5s?no you don't, What we hear everyday all over the forums are complaints about leds and people switching back and once again there are reasons for this but guys like you hate hearing the truth on to the next opinion

first off I will disagree with the fact that people do not complain about MH's and T-5's as wel;l. I hear these complaints regularly especially those like I don;lt like the color of the tank it is too blue or not blue enough.

I will agree that you can grow corals with many different light sources and each have there advantages and disadvantages. This is why I'm going more and more every day to recommending a combination of LED's and T-5's.

I do think the tone of the discussion should change to what is more ideal for my situation rather than over generalizing. There are advantages and disadvantages to every light source out there today. Mfg's are trying to lessen there disadvantage points which is why you see some changes, other changes are driven by the new gizmo trend overtaking the world today rather than practicality. There are some people that will change there lights monthly if you convince them this months model is better than last months model.

But the discussion should be I have X size tanks with X corals what will and will not work
'

 

[power boat jim]

The debate should be what's better halide vs t5 leds shouldn't be in the convo until all the problems are solved and there done tweaking with stuff trying to get the right spectrum, Sry guys it's the truth lol

The problem is generally user error. There are PLENTY of tanks that use LEDs I have personally seen plenty and if you look around here there are tons more. And sorry its not the "truth". It may be better for you but please dont judge other peoples skills by yours.

LEDs are more difficult to use yes but the results, if done properly, are just as good as any other light source.

 

[James77]

James,
You can greatly disagree all you want. And I said "UP TO 40%". There are some fixtures more/less efficient then others. I have been in this hobby almost 30 years

Ok....so while you are saying UP TO and including garbage flat reflectors from forever ago, maybe we should include rope LED lights off ebay while discussing modern aquarium equipment. There is not a single modern reflector sold at any well know aquarium store that loses 40% of the light. Show me otherwise if I am wrong please. Problem is, people are not always catching the "UP TO" part. Put an LED with no optics and watch how much light is lost. Not as a halide due to the bulb, but still a lot.

James,
I own Lumenbright fixtures. I know what they can do. The cannot shoot light down into the tank as efficiently as led's. Not even close. I own a Apogee PAR meter too.

Do they lose 40%? NOPE. I have owned LEDs with optics, and the light spill was more from the LED than the halides.

James,
Enclosed metal halides have fans and or ventilation for a reason just as T5's do.

No, they do not. T5's require cooling because they operate optimally at a certain temperature, 98 or 108 degrees if I recall correctly. Halide bulbs need no cooling, and do better when they are hot. A fixture using fans is usually dissipating heat from the electronics and other non-halide bulbs in the fixture. That is why there is no reflector only that is sold with fans, or why there are not fans in the countless millions of industrial halide lighting setups.

James,
The led's produce light just as metal halides do. And they have the spectrum down now. They are working beautifully for me and many many others!!!
This was the same debate 4 years ago for T5's being able to grow SPS corals. This is why companies like ATI, Geismann and other are now introducing their T5's WITH LEDS!!!! You st got to get them dialed in fellas! Thats all!

Yes. We know that LEDs produce light. Do they have the spectrum down now? I'd say they are getting very close. The same debate was happening 2-3 years ago....and way back then people were saying the same thing about them...that they have it all down and they are ready NOW. I am NOT saying that anyone getting a decent LED fixture today will not have success, just that they are still evolving. Halides are at pretty much the peak performance that can be achieved, and have been for several years. There will not be really more efficient reflectors and we have dozens of bulbs that we know work. LEDs are tweaking spectrums and spread, and are getting more efficient.

 

[Khemul]

Lol!! Sry guy but there's a reason why companies are putting out a new led every 6 months and adding more color each time! Looks like someone else is living in a dream world lol can't argue with the truth I'm Sry you don't like hearing the truth from us. Do you hear people questioning metal halides or t5s?no you don't, What we hear everyday all over the forums are complaints about leds and people switching back and once again there are reasons for this but guys like you hate hearing the truth on to the next opinion

New models for LED lights have had very little to do with growing/keeping corals. They got that out of way years ago with the 50/50 white/blue fixtures. New units have been about improving color. People have gotten used to rather unnatural colors, and are not happy to see those disappear under LEDs. Most of the complaints you see around here are about people not being happy with the colors they get.

Expect LED manufacturers to release new models every 6 months for a long time, no matter what is going on with spectrum debates. It's electronics standard. Computers, cell phones, printers, etc. Electronics manufacturers always produce new models on a regular schedule (every 3-6 months), no matter how little advancement there is for the average user. Any little change that can be thrown in (ie: the mid-range home PC hasn't taken any significant jumps that require an upgrade in over a decade - yet new models come out constantly) to make a new model look like an advancement.

 

[TropTrea]

The problem is generally user error. There are PLENTY of tanks that use LEDs I have personally seen plenty and if you look around here there are tons more. And sorry its not the "truth". It may be better for you but please dont judge other peoples skills by yours.

I'll disagree here. user error is not as big as purchaser error. There are some realy garbage LED systems out there that regardless what people do with them they will never grow corals. Some are over powered, some are under powered, and some have poor spectrum's. Interestingly price is not always the criteria of a better system with LED's as well.

The marketers of these LED systems are probably more at fault than the individual user. They right up sales propaganda that make even the worst system out there sound like it is the answer all.

LEDs are more difficult to use yes but the results, if done properly, are just as good as any other light source.

A good LED system is just as easy to use as any other light system in my book. But the problem is people are more worried today about the little add on gizmos that about getting quality light from there LED's. Yes the ultra advanced reef keeper may make use of the 6 channels to tune their LED's for a particular type of coral but even the true experts do not agree on what is the ideal. Blind messing with the spectrum's can be extremely detrimental to corals giving a basically good fixture a bad reputation. If the fixture was properly tuned to start with even the advanced reef keeper is only wasting his money paying for gizmos that he does not need.

If I design a LED fixture I look at it providing the required spectrum and intensity for the corals first off. Then if I want it to be variable I'll vary the amount of full spectrum (white) light so the user can adjust its balance to meet the color taste of the end user. Providing multiple tuning parts of the spectrum do nothing but confuse almost anyone. But gizmos sell today in this world and even someone that should be called a beginner wants to be considered an expert. So the marketing is aimed at their often stupidity.

 

[mrrobert]

I love my LEDs. I have great coral growth. everything in my tank is nice and happy!

 

[power boat jim]

I'll disagree here. user error is not as big as purchaser error. There are some realy garbage LED systems out there that regardless what people do with them they will never grow corals. Some are over powered, some are under powered, and some have poor spectrum's. Interestingly price is not always the criteria of a better system with LED's as well.

The marketers of these LED systems are probably more at fault than the individual user. They right up sales propaganda that make even the worst system out there sound like it is the answer all.



A good LED system is just as easy to use as any other light system in my book. But the problem is people are more worried today about the little add on gizmos that about getting quality light from there LED's. Yes the ultra advanced reef keeper may make use of the 6 channels to tune their LED's for a particular type of coral but even the true experts do not agree on what is the ideal. Blind messing with the spectrum's can be extremely detrimental to corals giving a basically good fixture a bad reputation. If the fixture was properly tuned to start with even the advanced reef keeper is only wasting his money paying for gizmos that he does not need.

If I design a LED fixture I look at it providing the required spectrum and intensity for the corals first off. Then if I want it to be variable I'll vary the amount of full spectrum (white) light so the user can adjust its balance to meet the color taste of the end user. Providing multiple tuning parts of the spectrum do nothing but confuse almost anyone. But gizmos sell today in this world and even someone that should be called a beginner wants to be considered an expert. So the marketing is aimed at their often stupidity.

Well said no argument with any of it. I agree that there are some bad fixtures out there also but my post was directed at the people out there that think leds are an inferior source of light and cant grow or color coral. I didnt know there were any left.

 

[power boat jim]

That's all we will ever hear is that it's the users error not the leds, Whatever makes u guys feel better lol, like I said no hard feelings towards anybody here there's always gunna people someone that disagrees and so many different opinions on this subject and many others

I dont know who "you guys" are but I dont post stuff to make me feel better. I post to pass on suggestions or attempt to further educate those who may have less experience in certain ares then I do.

 

[Fredfish]

They don't complain about halides growing coral

Take a trip back in time to when Halides were first introduced and they sure did. It took a while to figure out what bulbs worked best for corals.

LEDs are still a new technology in reefing and it will take a while to figure out the best configurations.

I see the largest advantages of LEDs as yet to come. Because you are dealing with a large number of light sources, LEDs are much more configurable to match the size and depth of a tank.

Spectal output is also completely configurable. The spectrum responsible for growth, for fluorescense and for viewing are somewhat different. You will never be able to dial these in separately with a halide. I expect we will get to a point where we can tune for these three parameters to our personal taste quite easily.

This will all get sorted out.

 

[heritage]

Can't we all just get along. :spin1:

My future prediction... Thread Closed

 

[power boat jim]

The people that defend led lighting with everything they got that's who I was referring to just so we're clear l

Im glad we are clear on that and Im glad Im not on of those guys because I have lots more.Its just not worth putting it out there.

 

[Aqualund]

The funny part about this thread....right now, is that the responses in the last three days have centered around:

"ah well I know what I know...you can think what you want...but I know I'm right...well even though its based on anecdotal evidence...but still...Im right...and you're wrong."

When in reality...about 3 months ago and pages back on this thread when it first started...all of these issues that are somehow now "unresolved" and mysterious...were um...actually well discussed and backed up with peer reviewed documentation, and real world applications...with proven results over several years of study.

The latecomers to this thread should read the thread in its entirety...including the cross referenced source links. But of course...science and data is no substitution for: "Well I just know it cause I know it."

 

[heritage]

And with that final word, I think this thread is done.:wavehand:

 

[Amatuer21]

All hail metal halide!! Long live metal halide!

 

[ridetheducati]

+1 again lol

Small victory, just 2,000 more threads to go.

 

[mussel and hate]

So I really like my DIY LED array. Excellent color rendering overpowering fluoresence available at the twist of a dial. I even save power as my 80W system(Dimmed approximately 50%) uses way less electricity than the 212W of my old 175 SE on a magnetic ballast.

Absent the MH I find myself feeling rather cold in these long brutish Canadian winters. Longing may be too strong a word but I do think fondly of winters past, warming myself in the heat plume of my metal halide aquarium lamp. For a moment I actually thought of dumping my LEDs and going back to halides, but then I put on a sweater and sanity returned.

 

[Amatuer21]

So I really like my DIY LED array. Excellent color rendering overpowering fluoresence available at the twist of a dial. I even save power as my 80W system(Dimmed approximately 50%) uses way less electricity than the 212W of my old 175 SE on a magnetic ballast.

Absent the MH I find myself feeling rather cold in these long brutish Canadian winters. Longing may be too strong a word but I do think fondly of winters past, warming myself in the heat plume of my metal halide aquarium lamp. For a moment I actually thought of dumping my LEDs and going back to halides, but then I put on a sweater and sanity returned.

Lol, pretty intense story!!