Anyone Thinking of Dumping LEDS and going back to Halides

[power boat jim]

I'm sorry that I agreed with what others said, this is a forum if you guys can't handle that people think halides are still the best then I don't know what to tell you.

The irony is mind blowing.

 

[mussel and hate]

Think extremely small place, like a closet.

This is at least as bad, and from a team RC member no less.

 

[rtparty]

I'm sorry that I agreed with what others said, this is a forum if you guys can't handle that people think halides are still the best then I don't know what to tell you.

I don't think halides are the best. I would bet the vast majority of people here on RC wouldn't say MH is the best. They will say that whatever they bought is the best.

PS - The only value you are adding to this thread is the probability of it getting closed is growing with every post you make.

PPS - Since you are typing all this on your phone, your quotes aren't working. After you make a post, go back to that post and click "Edit" (might be a pencil if you are using Tapatalk), and then hit save. Your posts will look much better to those using a computer.

Thanks!

 

[rtparty]

Metal halide bulbs are done. They are old technology.

Any proof to back up this statement? I see it written every day but no one has any facts to back up their claims.

The few vendors I've spoken with all said that metal halide sales were at an all time high for the hobby in 2013. One even said they sold more MH fixtures than LED fixtures.

 

[rtparty]

This thread should have been closed a long time ago like many others mentioned,like you said whatever lighting system people bought they think is the best even though they didn't have experience with any others, I'll let the other experienced halide and led users finish this one off because it's getting overrun with led fan boys that don't like debates

What debate is going on? You don't have any facts to back up ANYTHING that you say. So what can we even debate? We might as well start debating who's dad is stronger and what the best color is. We would have as much to gain from that, as we gain from your comments.

If you read my posts, I am not an LED fanboy. I ran them for 18 months and couldn't stand them. Went back to T5s and now onto a hybrid setup. I have also ran halides for over a year. Really liked the Phoenix 14k bulb and what it did for my tank. I can just use less wattage with T5s on my current tank, so I do.

 

[Khemul]

Metal halide is a doomed technology. But then, so are incandescent bulbs, and they refuse to die even after attempts to forcibly accelerate their demise. They'll be phased out eventually. Not anytime soon, but eventually. That really isn't any reason to write them off though.

A lot of people seem to think the time-scale for this will be 'years'. Not sure why. 'Decades', maybe. It takes a rather long time to fully phase out technology, even when a perfect substitute comes along (see: VCRs/VHS).

 

[meshwheel]

Proof,
You talk to a few vendors and then think metal halides are top sellers????? They are not. Everything is pushing them out. Why: Hmmmmm lets see:
1. Rising electricity costs
2. Bulb replacement costs
3. Chiller needed many times to use them
4. Eco/Green babies
5. Very little adjustability. You want to change the color........change the bulb!
6. Expensive reflectors to make them more efficient
And do I need to list more????
LED's
1. Much less electricity
2. No bulb changes
3. Full adjustability on the fly. No bulb changing and guessing. The guess work is gone!!!!!
4. No chiller needed
5. No reflectors to change or add that are 100+ dollars
6. Eco Friendlier then halides. Less carbon footprint....maybe....still debating this one.
The dam T5's you bought have led's in them!!!! Why not halides like before?????????
Dont get me wrong, there will always be a place in my heart for metal halides, just not my wallet............

 

[James77]

Proof,
You talk to a few vendors and then think metal halides are top sellers????? They are not. Everything is pushing them out. Why: Hmmmmm lets see:.....

Jeremy at Premium Aquatics has stated that halide sales are actullay going up over the last few years.

Proof,

1. Rising electricity costs
2. Bulb replacement costs
3. Chiller needed many times to use them
4. Eco/Green babies
5. Very little adjustability. You want to change the color........change the bulb!
6. Expensive reflectors to make them more efficient
And do I need to list more????
LED's
1. Much less electricity
2. No bulb changes
3. Full adjustability on the fly. No bulb changing and guessing. The guess work is gone!!!!!
4. No chiller needed
5. No reflectors to change or add that are 100+ dollars
6. Eco Friendlier then halides. Less carbon footprint....maybe....still debating this one.

1-This does not effect everyone the same, if I switched to all LEDs, I may save about 5-10 bucks a month if I was lucky.
2- another non issue. Bulbs(Radiums) cost me about $150 per year to replace.
3-meh. When I had my LED setup, it was fun tweaking the color for sure. Then I went to what I always like...a 14k look. Though I will say the dimming dawn/dusk can be kind of cool.
4- I have never needed a chiller for my halides, and most people do not. In the middle of summer here, when it is 100 out and I have no AC on so my living room is in the low 80'2...I do struggle a bit with heat. But that is with glass tops on, and then on goes the AC so I can live in the room...and all is well
5- reflectors to change? You do not need to change halide reflectors so long as minimal care is provided. Reflectors can easily last DECADES.
6- Eco friendlier? This in a hobby that is in total excess and is a luxury.

Dont get me wrong, there will always be a place in my heart for metal halides, just not my wallet............

The last thing on my mind is my wallet with this hobby. It is already a totally unnecessary cost. Yes, there are those with astronomical electric costs(like tiers) or those that require a chiller(very few) that LEDs can save a substantial amount. But unless the savings start breaking the 100 mark in electric, forget it. I could shave a few miles off my driving, buy no coffee, never ever eat out, or 3 point 2 hundred other things that can save that money.

Quote from Jeremy at PA:

The technology is far from dead, and actually quite the opposite in my opinion. I have seen an increase in halide sales recently, and have sold more lamps and halide setups in the last 12 months than what we have in the last 3-4 years. As Nanook mentioned above I can't stress enough checking out different systems with all types of lighting on them, T5, Metal Halide, LED, etc... Go with what appeals to you most for your specific application and budget. What might work great for one hobbyist and their particular application and budget might not be the best for the next hobbyist.

 

[BrianD]

Your condescending and juvenile posts are becoming tiresome. Unless you can add something of at least minimal content to the discussion please save them for an audience that may appreciate them.

Yes they are, and they have been removed. If this continues, please report the posts again.

 

[BrianD]

He preferred to meet Buster. Carry on.

 

[sirreal63]

With my leds at 60% blue and 50% white I am getting 410 PAR down 24 inches from the led's. Thats with a 1/2 cover over the top of the tank.
Maybe I got some special/magical led. I could never do that with a metal halide. A 150 watt halide I dont think could do that...........

I did, with a 150 watt MH, I can show the par testing results if needed.

 

[mussel and hate]

I envy your electricity pricing Jim. Here in the land of hydro electricity we pay $.13/kWhr on peak summer.

I couldn't keep my water temperature under 82F with a 77F ambient on my open top tank when I ran the halide. With LEDs I've dropped 3F water temp, which for me is a big plus.

 

[BrianD]

We have had a couple of requests to close this thread, but I think it is a very thoughtful discussion (with a few exceptions).

 

[meshwheel]

Jim,
I will agree with you on some of those points you made. Because we both know there are variables. Alot of them! Geographical locations, each tank is different, people keeping different animals in their tanks and so on. It goes on and on and on. just like this thread.
However, it does not change my mind. I think incandescent bulbs are going to be band here in California. It may have already been done. Not sure. But I can see the handwriting on the wall.
I have NEVER had a metal halide tank that did or could not benefit from a chiller. I have customers that lose their fish every year when the heat waves roll through So. Cal. It never fails.
Then they finally heed my warning and buy one. Then they say "What the heck was I thinking" I have had the same fish now for 3 years!!!!
But now with my led's, my chiller has laid quiet for almost 3 months! Nothing! Not a single run yet. My tank runs at a steady 76 with the heater on every night.
But I know better, and when the heat waves roll in I will be ready if need be.

 

[James77]

I envy your electricity pricing Jim. Here in the land of hydro electricity we pay $.13/kWhr on peak summer.

I couldn't keep my water temperature under 82F with a 77F ambient on my open top tank when I ran the halide. With LEDs I've dropped 3F water temp, which for me is a big plus.

I pay .135/kwh . The difference in cost with LEDs to Halides for me has so many variables. I don't run halides for 8-10 hours, mine are on 5-6 hours, the rest is supplements and not a lot. I was using LED supps for a while, but am going to a single T5 strip. I also use very efficient pumps. But the amount I save in electric would be negligible....similar results could be had(for me) by switching off lights I have a habit of leaving on.

I will say that I do let my temp swing more than what people think is normal. In the summer, my temps swing to 84-85 in the summer. GreenBean(member here) has some good posts on temperature, and how having a fairly large swing is harmless assuming the animals are used to it. My tanks have actually never looked more happy than when they are at high temps...

 

[meshwheel]

Jack,
Please do! I would love to see them. And my 24" is 14" of it under water. And dont forget the 1/2 acrylic cover as well. I can post a video with my Apogee PAR meter working it too. It would be a great comparison for sure. I have yet to see anything like it posted on here. Do you own a Kill o watt? We can compare the wattage as well.
Thanks!

 

[James77]

Jim,
I will agree with you on some of those points you made. Because we both know there are variables. Alot of them! Geographical locations, each tank is different, people keeping different animals in their tanks and so on. It goes on and on and on. just like this thread.
However, it does not change my mind. I think incandescent bulbs are going to be band here in California. It may have already been done. Not sure. But I can see the handwriting on the wall.
I have NEVER had a metal halide tank that did or could not benefit from a chiller. I have customers that lose their fish every year when the heat waves roll through So. Cal. It never fails.
Then they finally heed my warning and buy one. Then they say "What the heck was I thinking" I have had the same fish now for 3 years!!!!
But now with my led's, my chiller has laid quiet for almost 3 months! Nothing! Not a single run yet. My tank runs at a steady 76 with the heater on every night.
But I know better, and when the heat waves roll in I will be ready if need be.

Not trying to change your mind just countering some of the points you made. For some people, LEDs are the best thing that can happen to them as far as savings and they are at the point where they do work very well if the proper fixture or DIY spectrums are researched and employed.

If I lived in Cali with their tiered rates and heat was also adding to that issue, I'd be Mr LED ....but I think it should be put out there that people may not always encounter that. It should not be thought of as LEDs will do anything and everything, nor should it be claimed halides are always better than LEDs. They each have pros and cons....so one should weight them based on location, ambient heat, costs, and if they want to have tons of control. For me and many others, halides are the best...for you and many others, LEDs

Edit...I'll add that I am always looking into LEDs and talking myself out of buying some of the high end ones.....only because the cost investment simply does not pay out fr me.

 

[meshwheel]

Jim,
In my opinion, 84-85 is too high. And I am not knocking you. If it works for you, great. But it wont for me. Things start to bleach too. However, my experience is anything over 82 and your pushing it. Over 82 and Turbo Snails start to die. Soon to follow are other animals......

 

[meshwheel]

This looks like a job for..............................CAPTAIN LED......................LOL!!! call me Capt. LED then. Because they sure the heck made my life easier!!!
100-120 watts and I am growing SPS!!!!! I was going to add another Lumenbright fixture and go with 500 watts of 14K metal halides over my 65!!!!
And my office would have been hotter then a muther!!!! And I get a wide variety of spectrums allllllll day long!!!!! And ramping up and down!!!! And moonlights too.
I really thought I was old School waiting so long to switch. However, there where alot of kinks to iron out I noticed.
When the ReefBreeders Photon 32 caught my eye it was like...............A super model on the catwalk.........................Grace, Beauty, Power, Sophistication..............ALL AT THE AFFORDABLE PRICE OF 449.00 ABD FREE SHIPPING..................LOL
Capt. LED

 

[James77]

Not if they are used to it. If I jumped my temp right now to 84, I would lose several animals as the tank has been rock solid at 78.5 because of the winter. But as spring and summer come, I let the tank go where it wants, and have a controller kill lights and pumps starting at 85 degrees. My tank does not go below 80 in the summer.

Search out some posts by GreenBean....I used to be the same way, all out panic would happen when I went above 82. Here is one thread:
http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1869167&highlight=temperature

Some may not be comfortable doing so....but I can say that I have had no problem pushing the mid 80's when the tank is used to swings.