Anyone Thinking of Dumping LEDS and going back to Halides

[nynick]

As stated in PREVIOUS BILLION posts for those switching back to MH, NONE of the reasons you state are important. They switch because LEDs lack something that MH provided. Better growth and color. I know it will take a while to get through the endless number posts at least read the OP post. : /

Nook I think I said that nicely. : )

They switch because some LEDs lack something that some MH provided.

LED and MH are not homogenous sources of light and our choices in make and temp would be far more important than if it is LED or MH.

It is possible, with out a shred of a doubt, to reproduce any color temperature with LED. It is also equally possible to destroy your entire tank with a bad choice in MH.

 

[Stlouphil]

They switch because some LEDs lack something that some MH provided.



LED and MH are not homogenous sources of light and our choices in make and temp would be far more important than if it is LED or MH.



It is possible, with out a shred of a doubt, to reproduce any color temperature with LED. It is also equally possible to destroy your entire tank with a bad choice in MH.

Uh? Read the thread. Which has destroyed more tanks? MH or LED. I think that the vast majority if not all of the disasters will have fallen in the LED court. Just sayin.

 

[Wazzel]

Uh? Read the thread. Which has destroyed more tanks? MH or LED. I think that the vast majority if not all of the disasters will have fallen in the LED court. Just sayin.

Maybe over the most receint past due to lack of understanding of LEDs. MH users have toasted lots of tanks over the years, especally when new lamps came out and users had to fine tune the operating parameters to adjust for the differences in the lamps.

 

[Stlouphil]

"Just when I think I'm out, they PULL ME BACK IN!" Lol

 

[shred5]

The advantages listed above does not necessarily matter to polyp peepers.

That's actually pretty good because other than par none of those advantages have anything to do with growing coral..


Next time people are out look up and see what kind of lighting they have..
See how much led lighting is actually is out there.. If it is taking over the world you should see it every where... When you are at work look up, when you are in a factory look up.. I think other than a few places it is hard to find any.. Almost all exit signs and battery units are but have been for a very long time. Allot of accent lighting will be too but general lighting no... Retail uses it more because they have allot of accent lighting...

Problems is led is too directional and has horrible vertical foot candles. Same issue that provides self shading issues in a reef tank.. Everything looks like a cave, it is very hard to get lights on the wall and provides a horrible work environment. In warehouses where there are racks they light the aisles nice but not the racks/shelving that needs to be lit.

Oh someone said that leds dont produce heat then why the giant heats sink and fans? the heat is just more dispersed. That heat sink is the most important thing in a led fixture and it is also the most costly part because without it leds will not last... That is why good led fixtures cost so much money. Wonder why the Chinese leds fixtures are so cheap.. Right there, thin heat sinks and those fixtures initially put out good numbers but down the road they will degrade faster.

Even so yes led fixtures do produce less heat because less watts are used per fixture, this is because halides waste allot of light by bouncing it around. But that is important when you are trying to light things vertically. Better reflectors help..

When you do jobs like us and there is as many lights on a job as we spec.. It can be in the tens of thousands to in the hundreds of thousands of dollars... This is a hard sell telling a owner the cost of going to led is going to double maybe triple the initial cost of the light fixtures but over 6 to 10 years you will realize a savings in energy and maintenance costs. Owners of building really just want the cheapest best lighting they can get. Lighting is not on their priority lists and cost is. But hey you can dim the leds. Another thing they dont care about, they just want their lights on or off and you can get a light switch for 35 cent and a dimmer cost allot more or better yet panel switched.

Fluorescent lighting makes people feel better and helps increase production. Led lighting in offices is harsh and also creates a cave effect.

Do we spec more leds than 10 years ago yes. More than a year ago yes.. Willl they continue to grow: for a while till the next thing comes along.
Places like Florida or California may even see more led because of energy codes.. Is leds out selling halides or even fluorescent fixtures not even close.



As far as investment goes into halide fixtures , sure it is low it has been around a long time and is about as good as it is going o get so why invest more into it..

 

[d2mini]

It is possible, with out a shred of a doubt, to reproduce any color temperature with LED.

I don't think anyone ever argued that... at least with "full spectrum" fixtures.

It is also equally possible to destroy your entire tank with a bad choice in MH.

Only if you are a complete idiot.
One look at the forums or a single talk with your LFS owner will get you a list of proven mh bulbs. Slap one over your tank, set a timer for around 6 hours on (give or take) and you're good. If your coral don't do well you know your lighting is not your problem.

 

[Stlouphil]

i don't think anyone ever argued that... At least with "full spectrum" fixtures.


Only if you are a complete idiot.
one look at the forums or a single talk with your lfs owner will get you a list of proven mh bulbs. Slap one over your tank, set a timer for around 6 hours on (give or take) and you're good. If your coral don't do well you know your lighting is not your problem.

+1

 

[Scorpius]

Anyone know of a good compact metal halide system that would take up mininmal space over my 18x18x18in cube aquarium?

 

[nynick]

Uh? Read the thread. Which has destroyed more tanks? MH or LED. I think that the vast majority if not all of the disasters will have fallen in the LED court. Just sayin.

That has nothing to do with if it is LED or MH. LED offers a huge array of options to destroy the healthiest tank by the "enthusiastic" hobbyist, MH does not.

This fact is at least 75% of the problem.

the remaining 25% is that it is so much easier to blame LED technology rather than admitting to ourselves that er were either impulsive or incompetent.

LED, as it is today, requires you to be reasonably good at lights. There isn't a single plug and play fixture and those that are simpler to operate tend to be garbage. Any hobbyist who's poor understanding of light allows them to think things like "led can't grow sps" will likely not have a good time with a complex led system.

 

[d2mini]

Anyone know of a good compact metal halide system that would take up mininmal space over my 18x18x18in cube aquarium?

I would start another thread for this question since it's kinda out of the scope of this thread, but Hamilton has some nice fixtures at a good price, either just MH or a MH/T5 combo. Hard to beat their reflectors, not to mention their customer service. Or if you want something really slick looking and want to spend the extra cash, look at what Giesemann has available.

 

[MedRed]

That has nothing to do with if it is LED or MH. LED offers a huge array of options to destroy the healthiest tank by the "enthusiastic" hobbyist, MH does not.

This fact is at least 75% of the problem.

the remaining 25% is that it is so much easier to blame LED technology rather than admitting to ourselves that er were either impulsive or incompetent.

LED, as it is today, requires you to be reasonably good at lights. There isn't a single plug and play fixture and those that are simpler to operate tend to be garbage. Any hobbyist who's poor understanding of light allows them to think things like "led can't grow sps" will likely not have a good time with a complex led system.

made up statistics are made up. There are plenty of tanks with corals growing under LEDs. Color, rate of growth, and growth pattern are the primary issues. Color is my biggest gripe.

 

[nynick]

made up statistics are made up. There are plenty of tanks with corals growing under LEDs. Color, rate of growth, and growth pattern are the primary issues. Color is my biggest gripe.

I don't understand what that has to do with what I said?

..and what statistics?

 

[jdmneon]

So you posted before fully reading this thread?
Why people go back is pretty obvious and has been stated and shown visually many times in this huge thread. Even those who choose to stick with LED understand why some people either choose to go back to or stick with mh. As do those who run mh understand why many people choose to stick with LED. You've stated some advantages to LED and there are plenty of advantages to mh. Understanding one or the other shouldn't be a problem, especially if you have long term experience with both.

I did read the thread and I have yet to see someone post an advantage to MH that didn't include personal anecdotes about how they used to have better growth or their coral were "happier", looking at individual tanks for comparisons is meaningless, there are too many variables and too many different types of fixtures. the only thing that matters in a light with respect to coral growth is PAR and possibly color temperature and either of these things can be replicated using LED lighting.

but this said, the main problem I see is that metal halide fixtures aren't seeing improvements, like I said earlier the PAR isn't getting significantly better every year, they aren't getting any cooler or more energy efficient, they aren't getting any cheaper. If these lights are so great why is no one investing in them?

 

[d2mini]

I did read the thread and I have yet to see someone post an advantage to MH that didn't include personal anecdotes about how they used to have better growth or their coral were "happier", looking at individual tanks for comparisons is meaningless, there are too many variables and too many different types of fixtures. the only thing that matters in a light with respect to coral growth is PAR and possibly color temperature and either of these things can be replicated using LED lighting.

but this said, the main problem I see is that metal halide fixtures aren't seeing improvements, like I said earlier the PAR isn't getting significantly better every year, they aren't getting any cooler or more energy efficient, they aren't getting any cheaper. If these lights are so great why is no one investing in them?

Yep, you didn't read it.
Oh well.

And there is nothing to improve about mh. It works and nothing can grow coral better at the moment.

 

[Bpb]

This time I disagree with eveththing in the above post. Light isn't that simple. It's not high par led = good, low par mh = bad. That's nonsense. Put up a fixture with nothing but warm whites and reds, high wattage, and crank them. You might have insanely high par, but you'll also have a lot of dead coral. What matters is consistency and if your lights are producing the particular spectral peaks that the chloraphyll and accessory proteins in the coral tissue use for photosynthesis. It's not just a simple high par low par deal. Nobody cares what investments and research are being made. Why on earth would that matter.

I don't need a bulb/ballast to further advance or be reinvented over and over to make me happy. It produces the absolute perfect color to my eyes with zero tinkering, I don't run a chiller, and my tank runs at 79.5 degrees. I'm also seeing up to 1/2" of growth on most acropora in the last 3 weeks. Remind me again why i should switch? Ease of use, perfect color, fast growth. Am I missing something?

 

[sirreal63]

but this said, the main problem I see is that metal halide fixtures aren't seeing improvements, like I said earlier the PAR isn't getting significantly better every year, they aren't getting any cooler or more energy efficient, they aren't getting any cheaper. If these lights are so great why is no one investing in them?

I am curious why you see that as a problem? It has already been figured out and we are enjoying the benefits of something that simply works. This hobby is usually just as much about the new gadgets as the livestock. Some of us are through with the toy collecting stage and use what we know works, with no surprises.

LEDs are advancing and developing because they are not figured out yet. So if your goal is to provide the best light available for your corals, would you choose what has a history of working exactly as you expect or will you collect the latest toy and be on the forefront of a developing technology. For some of us the choice is simple, do what works exactly as expected. If there are issues with our livestock, we know it isn't a light issue.

 

[grigsy]

but this said, the main problem I see is that metal halide fixtures aren't seeing improvements, like I said earlier the PAR isn't getting significantly better every year, they aren't getting any cooler or more energy efficient, they aren't getting any cheaper. If these lights are so great why is no one investing in them?

Most of them have it right already and don't need improvement.

Metal Halide is just plain better reef tank lighting versus LEDs.

So use LEDs if you are so happy with them. I used them and switched back and am happier with halides.

 

[Reefing21715]

I hate to say this, but at some point in time I think MH users will be forced to make a technology switch due to lamps no longer being availible. Our hobby really is small and I do not see how companies could stay in busness just supplying lamps to reef keepers. It will be a shame really. I have no intention to going back to MH, but it is a good selection for reef lighting and having less options is never good.

+1 is never good to have less options led lighting its very spensive allready and looks like led companies will never have a finish product that will work and set the price. just take a look how many generations we have pro not pro and everytime that happens the price costumers have to pay is more.

 

[Nanook]

jdmneon just 3 weeks ago when he joined:

hey thanks, how many of those lights would I need to buy to meet my goals on a 29 gallon tank, I am not really that familiar with LED's, the only fixture they have in stock is 319$ before shipping which is out of my price range

Funny how he all of a sudden is an expert in lighting :lol: Seriously, you just joined and are already have that know-it-all attitude....good luck

 

[Bpb]

jdmneon just 3 weeks ago when he joined:




Funny how he all of a sudden is an expert in lighting :lol: Seriously, you just joined and are already have that know-it-all attitude....good luck

I'm no expert myself but THAT is funny.

I also decided to take an earlier challenge up and count metal halides today on my drive home. I live 3 miles from my work. Just right across the highway one exit down. 5 minute drive maybe. I lost count at 100 and more metal halide fixtures in the way of street lamps, building spotlights and accent lights, parking lot lights ect.

Folks. They're used a lot more for general outdoor and commercial lighting than any other form by a LONG shot. Nobody think for two seconds metal halides are going to be phased out. They're everywhere you look.