Anyone Thinking of Dumping LEDS and going back to Halides

[dcmartinpc]

I have watched this thread in awe today...

Lets state it this way....

If an LED system were able to produce EXACTLY the same spectrum as a Radium, including all of the spectrum in between the narrow peaks... AND its light was distributed in all directions simultaneously and reflected in a reflector as to reproduce the "reflected light", like a MH, then then they would be identical.

Is that a fair statement? If so, I COMPLETELY AGREE! It just doesn't exist yet and I don't see any manufacturers driving down that path...

Don

 

[sirreal63]

Fine sirreal, I'll answer you.

If you have channels Red, Green, and Blue, what do you get?

And then what do you get when you add the last remaining spectrum to that light source?

You get either a young reefer with a lot to learn or someone who is trolling for attention, possibly both. It is still very apparent that you have not read this thread, and I have doubts that you will. Your Radion will do the job, but some day you may discover what the people here who have already been down this road have discovered. If or when you do I hope you are big enough to come back and apologize to the people you have dismissed.

 

[doctorwhoreefer]

You get either a young reefer with a lot to learn or someone who is trolling for attention, possibly both. It is still very apparent that you have not read this thread, and I have doubts that you will. Your Radion will do the job, but some day you may discover what the people here who have already been down this road have discovered. If or when you do I hope you are big enough to come back and apologize to the people you have dismissed.

I'm sorry Sirreal, I've seen you say some of the worst things to others, bye.

 

[doctorwhoreefer]

There's so much nonsense here today I don't even know what the question is. :uhoh3:
But whatever it is, I hope you find it. Being as lost as you are is no picnic, I'm sure.

Lol..

The question was, if two light sources have identical spectral output, aside from par/lux/(intensities), how is a metal halide bulb, a different light source from a led setup?

There's actually somewhat of a valid answer here that is manipulative via led's... heh (just realized that)

 

[doctorwhoreefer]

Its time to put the egos away and get back to what would be a useful discussion

If you're detracting from my statements, you have yet to answer my last question.

 

[sirreal63]

I am not much for sugar coatings or handing out participation awards. I am sorry if that bothers you, or maybe I am not but either way I will always try to say it like I see it.

 

[doctorwhoreefer]

I have watched this thread in awe today...

Lets state it this way....

If an LED system were able to produce EXACTLY the same spectrum as a Radium, including all of the spectrum in between the narrow peaks... AND its light was distributed in all directions simultaneously and reflected in a reflector as to reproduce the "reflected light", like a MH, then then they would be identical.

Is that a fair statement? If so, I COMPLETELY AGREE! It just doesn't exist yet and I don't see any manufacturers driving down that path...

Don

Pretty much. But it could be a combination solution, now that just about every part of the spectrum has it's own led.

I was convinced with a white+blue setup adding the 403nm exotics. Truly awesome coloration.. My first thought was, "hooray for not having to drool anymore about mh coloration!"

 

[Wazzel]

Lol..

The question was, if two light sources have identical spectral output, aside from par/lux/(intensities), how is a metal halide bulb, a different light source from a led setup?

There's actually somewhat of a valid answer here that is manipulative via led's... heh (just realized that)

LED's and Mh do not have the same spectral output. Mh covers just about the entire visual spectrum with peaks and different wave lengths depending on how the lamp is tuned. LED will produce a narrow band of color for each diode color. To get full spectrum they need diodes of many colors and even then there will be some gaps. It does not mean it is trash, just need to make sure the narrow bands are useful bands. We count on the manufactures to provide the correct mix of diodes.

 

[power boat jim]

If you're detracting from my statements, you have yet to answer my last question.

Easy DR. Take a deep breath, every participant in this thread is not obligated to answer all your questions. They too are free to post their concerns. Especially when it comes to help keeping this thread open much longer.

 

[markalot]

Lol..

The question was, if two light sources have identical spectral output, aside from par/lux/(intensities), how is a metal halide bulb, a different light source from a led setup?

There's actually somewhat of a valid answer here that is manipulative via led's... heh (just realized that)

That was not your question, you came up with that question when you realized you were wrong about this thread. The answer you want to hear is NOTHING, which is true if that fixture existed, but it does not exist. You would also need to fashion this mythical LED bulb to produce the identical spectrum in all directions, so you could use a reflector to spread the light out.

What is your goal other than pose a new question that we all know the answer too? The goal of this thread was a conversation about how MH tended to give, if not better, easier to obtain results. I have over $800 in LED fixtures I'm not using. I blame myself for not understanding the limitations of LED. I am using a small Razor over my 29 gallon because it doesn't have sticks and the LED makes LPS and softies look fantastic.

 

[doctorwhoreefer]

That was not your question, you came up with that question when you realized you were wrong about this thread. The answer you want to hear is NOTHING, which is true if that fixture existed, but it does not exist. You would also need to fashion this mythical LED bulb to produce the identical spectrum in all directions, so you could use a reflector to spread the light out.

What is your goal other than pose a new question that we all know the answer too? The goal of this thread was a conversation about how MH tended to give, if not better, easier to obtain results. I have over $800 in LED fixtures I'm not using. I blame myself for not understanding the limitations of LED. I am using a small Razor over my 29 gallon because it doesn't have sticks and the LED makes LPS and softies look fantastic.

The thread states:
Anyone Thinking of Dumping LEDS and going back to Halides

I responded with:
I don't think I would ever even consider going back to metal halides or t5's...

The heat and operating cost is just like comparing a window ac to a whole house ac.
Yes it does the job, at a fraction of the efficiency. This takes money from other areas that could have been spent in a better way.

One personal favorite, being able to schedule change my light output from 20k to 10k through the day, that's priceless.


It snowballed from there. But yes, that is the answer. And though a single led bulb does not exist (white is awful close) a cluster of different variances does not rule out the completion of the goal.

As far as application, that's a different story, but you don't see led fixtures with led's pointed up wasting light on a reflector do you?

 

[doctorwhoreefer]

Easy DR. Take a deep breath, every participant in this thread is not obligated to answer all your questions. They too are free to post their concerns. Especially when it comes to help keeping this thread open much longer.

I know.. I just hate it when people jump on ya for saying you've had a good experience and no you're not thinking of going back to metal halides.. lol

I feel bad for all that water I wasted filling the ato bucket.

 

[nynick]

Lol..

The question was, if two light sources have identical spectral output, aside from par/lux/(intensities), how is a metal halide bulb, a different light source from a led setup?

There's actually somewhat of a valid answer here that is manipulative via led's... heh (just realized that)

There are ways to change the narrow bands and break them up or alter them entirely. Coatings, reflectors, prisms and even magnetic fields have been discussed. No one is really sure if or how much of it is needed yet. It seems like a vast majority of the corals we keep are fine with these narrow bands we currently have in the market.

For visuals for sure it isn't needed and to answer your question of what you get if you mix blue, red and green, the answer unfortunately is blue, red and green. It may look like white to us but this is an illusion courtesy of your eyes.



By now you have probably figured out that some people in the hobby get incredibly upset when discussing LED lights. When they were first launched we were all promised something that would make the second coming of Christ pale in comparison. Some people have yet to recover from the realization that "Hey, it's just a lamp!".

 

[MisterP]

Lol..

The question was, if two light sources have identical spectral output, aside from par/lux/(intensities), how is a metal halide bulb, a different light source from a led setup?

There's actually somewhat of a valid answer here that is manipulative via led's... heh (just realized that)

IF the spectral output was the same...then a bulb in and of its self may not be alot better than an LED puck. The part people keep missing is the reflector. It covers a huge area compared to a small LED puck, thus giving nice uniform coverage.

The answer you are looking for is LEDs grow coral fine, work well for many peoples goals, and have good sleek designs of the units which are optimal for rimless tanks.

LED units lack a broad spectrum. The manufacturers hit the high notes and smooth data between points to show a supposed "full spectrum". The whites are used IMO to tune the light to the human eye. The whites aren't a blend of full spectrum light either.

 

[Wazzel]

By now you have probably figured out that some people in the hobby get incredibly upset when discussing LED lights. When they were first launched we were all promised something that would make the second coming of Christ pale in comparison. Some people have yet to recover from the realization that "Hey, it's just a lamp!".

The flip side of that is also true. You know, because they did not live up to the hype they are dismissed as trash.

 

[power boat jim]

The thread states:
Anyone Thinking of Dumping LEDS and going back to Halides



.

As far as application, that's a different story, but you don't see led fixtures with led's pointed up wasting light on a reflector do you?

That small detail is what is keeping LEDs from being the perfect light source in my opinion. They cant be directed into a reflector and have their beam scattered to come off the reflector in every possible direction. The absence of that is what causes shadowing and that is what can make a corals appear somewhat unattractive.

 

[nynick]

The flip side of that is also true. You know, because they did not live up to the hype they are dismissed as trash.

I must agree but in all fairness...some of the very early setups really were trash.

I still remember seeing this thing the size of a small car blinking away over a sea of dying corals in one of the LFS here.

 

[power boat jim]

I must agree but in all fairness...some of the very early setups really were trash.

I still remember seeing this thing the size of a small car blinking away over a sea of dying corals in one of the LFS here.

And it cost about 12 grand.

 

[ghostman]

The flip side of that is also true. You know, because they did not live up to the hype they are dismissed as trash.

I would hope not Wazzel. I think everyone here has tried LEDs and just have a different preference. I am partial to the GHL Mitra lamps, and have a Kessil over a softie tank what I gather from the information here is that MH certainly isn't dead from the advent of LEDs, and many experienced reefers prefer the look and growth of MH. Whatever works for you is great

 

[Wazzel]

I must agree but in all fairness...some of the very early setups really were trash.

I still remember seeing this thing the size of a small car blinking away over a sea of dying corals in one of the LFS here.

No arguments here, if I would have set my current tank up a few years ago it would have not been a LED tank.