Anyone Thinking of Dumping LEDS and going back to Halides

Reel North said:
I was running the 120 degree lenses and it was worse. Talking to another reefer today he told me I'd actually need 6. Yes SIX radions to give enough coverage. I'm trying to find ANY savings using that # of lights. The manufacturer should give truthful numbers for coverage.
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I would do 4, not 6, but I do run my LED a lot hotter/whiter and longer than most others do.
 
d2mini said:
Shading works.
Or what I did was just run the new lights for a very short period of time. I think I started with 4 hours, maybe even less. And slowly increased from there every few days.
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That is the approach I would take with any lighting system change. It worked for me when I went from VHO to MH.
 
ghostman said:
+1 to Wazzel. 4 would be sufficient, unless you have bracing that blocks some areas. 6 lights is overkill IMO.
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Overkill in intensity (and on your wallet) but not in light spread.
The problem is the LEDs are super intense in the very center and then QUICKLY lose par as they spread out. Plus your light is coming in at an extreme angle if the corals are not directly under the pucks, so you get lots of shading. To overcome this you really need to overlap the light from multiple units, which is why I would recommend TWICE the units that the manufacturer recommends, and possibly orienting them front to back rather than lengthwise to get better spread over your tank in the front and rear.
 
The only 2 people who are serious SPS'ers that I know that even had moderate success with LED used 3 panels to replace a single Halide. It was certainly not overkill in spread and they ran them around 75%.

Take a look at the count that TBD used when he was on LED, or Sanjay Joshi... they were using 3 per 2x2 area as well, IIRC.

IMO, AT LEAST double the manufacturer count for high light needs.
 
Led

Led

jda said:
The only 2 people who are serious SPS'ers that I know that even had moderate success with LED used 3 panels to replace a single Halide. It was certainly not overkill in spread and they ran them around 75%.

Take a look at the count that TBD used when he was on LED, or Sanjay Joshi... they were using 3 per 2x2 area as well, IIRC.

IMO, AT LEAST double the manufacturer count for high light needs.
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+1. Its more of a coverage and spreading issue than intensity. My corals under the LED's were okay, but as they got bigger is where the problems really came in.
 
Led

Led

d2mini said:
overkill in intensity (and on your wallet) but not in light spread.
The problem is the leds are super intense in the very center and then quickly lose par as they spread out. Plus your light is coming in at an extreme angle if the corals are not directly under the pucks, so you get lots of shading. To overcome this you really need to overlap the light from multiple units, which is why i would recommend twice the units that the manufacturer recommends, and possibly orienting them front to back rather than lengthwise to get better spread over your tank in the front and rear.
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+1
 
d2mini said:
Overkill in intensity (and on your wallet) but not in light spread.
The problem is the LEDs are super intense in the very center and then QUICKLY lose par as they spread out. Plus your light is coming in at an extreme angle if the corals are not directly under the pucks, so you get lots of shading. To overcome this you really need to overlap the light from multiple units, which is why I would recommend TWICE the units that the manufacturer recommends, and possibly orienting them front to back rather than lengthwise to get better spread over your tank in the front and rear.
Click to expand...

Personally, I'm with you Dennis. I know that radions are supposed to cover 36" with their wide angle lenses, which is why I doubled it to 4 units. When I ran leds, I always had several more units than the manufacturer suggested. I even angled some of them to reduce the shadow effect. A PAR meter showed the hot and cold areas, and it wasn't pretty. An overlap of light can create an area where PAR is unacceptably high as well.
 
d2mini said:
Overkill in intensity (and on your wallet) but not in light spread.
The problem is the LEDs are super intense in the very center and then QUICKLY lose par as they spread out. Plus your light is coming in at an extreme angle if the corals are not directly under the pucks, so you get lots of shading. To overcome this you really need to overlap the light from multiple units, which is why I would recommend TWICE the units that the manufacturer recommends, and possibly orienting them front to back rather than lengthwise to get better spread over your tank in the front and rear.
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From what I am seeing in my tank, the AI Hydra52 cover 24" in the axis of the pucks and 18" in the other axis real well. I do not see them covering the 24x24 or 30x30 as advertised. Kind of a different discussion, but any who. I think we agree on the issue, but not the severity.

Edit to add...

Some is also dependent on the tank lay out. Because of the point source nature of the LEDs steep tall structures will suffer more from shading and spread issues that a lower flatter structure.
 
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d2mini said:
Overkill in intensity (and on your wallet) but not in light spread.
The problem is the LEDs are super intense in the very center and then QUICKLY lose par as they spread out. Plus your light is coming in at an extreme angle if the corals are not directly under the pucks, so you get lots of shading. To overcome this you really need to overlap the light from multiple units, which is why I would recommend TWICE the units that the manufacturer recommends, and possibly orienting them front to back rather than lengthwise to get better spread over your tank in the front and rear.
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+1.

My experience as well.

You do need TWICE the LED units than what is recommended by LED manufacturers because of the drop in PAR off to the sides and for proper spread.

I agree with Dennis on this one.
 
Why not use T5-LED-like fixtures like BML? They provide even distribution of light and PAR; then puck like fixtures to supplement. It's similar to using T5/MH combo which provides the best results.
 
I guess I was lucky to come into the hobby 4 years ago when LEDs were catching on. My first fixture that came with the used tank I bought was an underpowered T5. I came across someone selling their AI Sol's to switch back to MH, so I got them for 1/2 price. Over the. Next 6 months as my tank matured, I added SPS frags from him, and other MH reefs. As I went back and visited my friends with the mother colonies, I noticed 2 things. #1 some of the colors on my corals changed, but some were better and some were not as good. #2 my growth was just as good or better. So after 3 years of running the Sol's I have to say that anyone who says they dont get as good of growth under LEDs is doing something wrong. Then I upgraded the Sol's to regular Hydras (not the 52's) and 1 Vega. I lowered the overall brightness and have taken 3 months to raise all the channels to be equal, and get the same overall brightness as my Sol's. I have seen lots of color changes again in my reef, but again the growth is spectacular.

I have never run Halides, so I cant speak for my experience with them, but in comparison to other tanks I get just as good results. The price I spent on the full spectrum upgrades and new controller have wiped away any savings from bulb changes. When I think about the difference in electricity costs, maybe I am ahead, or maybe Im behind...who knows...but Im not in this hobby to save money, its a losing adventure except its a small price to pay for how much enjoyment I get my reef.

I guess my point is that people will probably have the best luck with whatever equipment keeps them interested in maintaining their tanks and good husbandry. As long as they have adequate light from whatever fixture they own, their corals will grow and be beautiful.
 
Fudz Cwerner said:
I guess I was lucky to come into the hobby 4 years ago when LEDs were catching on. My first fixture that came with the used tank I bought was an underpowered T5. I came across someone selling their AI Sol's to switch back to MH, so I got them for 1/2 price. Over the. Next 6 months as my tank matured, I added SPS frags from him, and other MH reefs. As I went back and visited my friends with the mother colonies, I noticed 2 things. #1 some of the colors on my corals changed, but some were better and some were not as good. #2 my growth was just as good or better. So after 3 years of running the Sol's I have to say that anyone who says they dont get as good of growth under LEDs is doing something wrong. Then I upgraded the Sol's to regular Hydras (not the 52's) and 1 Vega. I lowered the overall brightness and have taken 3 months to raise all the channels to be equal, and get the same overall brightness as my Sol's. I have seen lots of color changes again in my reef, but again the growth is spectacular.

I have never run halides so I cant speak for my experience with them, but in comparison to other tanks I get just as good results. The price I spent on the full spectrum upgrades and new controller have wiped away any savings from bulb changes. When I think about the difference in electricity costs, maybe I am ahead, or maybe Im behind...who knows...but Im not in this hobby to save money, its a losing adventure except its a small price to pay for how much enjoyment I get my reef.

I guess my point is that people will probably have the best luck with whatever equipment keeps them interested in maintaining their tanks and good husbandry. As long as they have adequate light from whatever fixture they own, their corals will grow and be beautiful.
Click to expand...

I had much the same experience with the same lights (Sols). I have now moved on to Radions and also run MH a few hrs a day since my wife likes the tank a little on the brighter side. I could jack the radions way up and brighten the tank that way but the MH route was probably safer. I like this set up as I believe I am getting the best of all that is available.
 
power boat jim said:
I had much the same experience with the same lights (Sols). I have now moved on to Radions and also run MH a few hrs a day since my wife likes the tank a little on the brighter side. I could jack the radions way up and brighten the tank that way but the MH route was probably safer. I like this set up as I believe I am getting the best of all that is available.
Click to expand...

I recently did the same. Added two 250w Radiums to the light support. Corals were growing and had good color, but the color and growth weren't what I expected could be achieved. Coral colors were more monochromatic and more in the green/blue range. I'm hoping the addition of the MH will change that. May have to look at different bulbs but the fixtures came with the Radiums, so that was the place to start. Maybe I'll try 14k bulbs next.

I like the shimmer from the LEDs, so they're staying for now. I also believe they are certainly capable of growing corals, but still need to develop further. Something is being overlooked or needs to be overcome for them to be a singular light source. Perhaps Sicca has it right with their new fixture. Their fixture actually reminds me of the original Chinese LEd fixture I had over a 50 - lots of individual low wattage chips, closely spaced. They are to be used in a blanket like installation where every inch of the display is covered by chips.

This is the lighting scheme for the foreseeable future. Running the Radiums for 4.5hr/day at the moment. Par numbers are way up even from the two Ecoxotic Cannons they replaced.

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