Anyone Thinking of Dumping LEDS and going back to Halides

[gablett]

Couple of questions for the radium users here, and any on who switched from led

Back story: I have been an led user since Jan 13, t5 before that,. Just switched the tank from hydra 52s to 2 250watt radiums, cayman sun pendants, Hamilton m80 ballasts. The frag tank has a 14k DE hamilton. I left led to give halide a try, and I'm on a quest to get things better. after 2 years of trying to dial in percentages, I managed to grow decent sized sps, but color has always been sub par.

Questions as follows

1. Compared to my hydra 52s, these radiums seem very dim. I thought it was the other way around, everyone always said leds apear dim so "be careful"

2. This might answer the above, will the bulb get brighter as it breaks in?

3. I had uv, violet, and royal blue leds so I had a decent amount of coral pop, and things looked decent. Under the radiums, almost all my stuff is completely brown and dull. Were my leds giving me illusions of color I never had?

4. Related to #3, will the radium eventually start flourecing my sps assuming my parameters are legit, or will I possibly need to supplement. I honestly was under the impression, no supplement would be necessary with the 20k radium since I have seen numerous tanks with nothing but halide.

I understand these are strange questions, just trying to see what I should expect since I actually have the lights running now. Thanks

I can try to answer these from my experience as I went from Radiums to led to radiums.

1. Thats odd. Everyone I have known that has gone from led to halide has said the oppositte. I experienced that it was dim and "hollow" looking with LEDs and with halides it is way brighter. Like a lot brighter. I had 5x 55 3w led panels so I had a lot of LEDs. The halides look alot more like the sun is lighting it.

2. It seemed to a little bit over the first couple weeks, but not a ton.

3 & 4. I think so. I supplement my Radiums with royal blue leds. But your right its a different kind of light. I think as your corals get used to it you will see colors that you didnt see before. But it will take some time. Thats why a lot of people supplement. You get the best of both worlds. But halide is more natural looking. So it wont be that crazy super blue color you can get with LEDs. I used to run halides on icecap ballasts so they were underdriven and it was much bluer. Now I am running them at the HQI setting it is much whiter and brighter. You should get the same thing with the M80 ballast. Ive never run halides alone. I used to supplement with blue+ and true actinic T5 bulbs and now led, so I would suggest you supplement with something. Its nice for the extended viewing period with sunrise and sunset effect too. But I guess all in all im more of a fan of the natural colors, not the outer space funky colors. I guess Id just say get some supplementation, and give it some time.

Hope that helps.

 

[JB NY]

I am probably going to regret this, but here is 6 months under a single hydra 52.

Nothing to regret, I think your tank looks good Mark.

This whole thread is, by it's very nature, about being very picky. People in this thread, myself included, have had very good success with MH. For me, I want something that is going to be better than my current solution. I posted pictures of those corals because that was what I could do back then. On my next tank, years later, I think I had better results. So for me I want to see results that are at least as good as I could get 10 years ago.

 

[d2mini]

nothing to regret, i think your tank looks good mark.

+1

 

[Wazzel]

Nothing to regret, I think your tank looks good Mark.

This whole thread is, by it's very nature, about being very picky. People in this thread, myself included, have had very good success with MH. For me, I want something that is going to be better than my current solution. I posted pictures of those corals because that was what I could do back then. On my next tank, years later, I think I had better results. So for me I want to see results that are at least as good as I could get 10 years ago.

Thanks Joe, Appreciate the complement. If I did not feel I was getting results as good as when I ran MH I would probably feel that way too. I never expected LED to be better.

+1

Thanks Dennis, appreciate that from you also.

Wazzle the tank is doing well congratulations on a good start.

And you Jim, I did not miss the complement, thanks.

 

[JB NY]

Couple of questions for the radium users here, and any on who switched from led

Questions as follows

1. Compared to my hydra 52s, these radiums seem very dim. I thought it was the other way around, everyone always said leds apear dim so "be careful"

2. This might answer the above, will the bulb get brighter as it breaks in?

3. I had uv, violet, and royal blue leds so I had a decent amount of coral pop, and things looked decent. Under the radiums, almost all my stuff is completely brown and dull. Were my leds giving me illusions of color I never had?

4. Related to #3, will the radium eventually start flourecing my sps assuming my parameters are legit, or will I possibly need to supplement. I honestly was under the impression, no supplement would be necessary with the 20k radium since I have seen numerous tanks with nothing but halide.

I understand these are strange questions, just trying to see what I should expect since I actually have the lights running now. Thanks

1. everyone sees a little different. Even though I am running Radiums, I still feel they "look" dimmer than some of the 10K bulb I used t0 run. But that said I feel that my tank looks much brighter than the LED tanks I have personally seen.

2. Bulbs all break in differently, but the radium seems to break in and looks a little bit whiter and I think that makes it look more bright than fresh out of the box. Also make sure you are driving the radium bulb with the correct ballast M80, HQI, or an electronic ballast that does HQI.

3. Probably, a lot of the LED throw color over the coral but doesn't make the coral colorful itself. With a really colorful coral, you should be able to pull it out of the tank, look at it in normal light and you should still be able to see that color in the coral.

4. I personally feel the MH looks best with some kind of supplementation. I know that this topic is about MH over LED, but really to look its best I think the MH really shines best with some other light source paired with it.

HTH

 

[d2mini]

This whole thread is, by it's very nature, about being very picky. People in this thread, myself included, have had very good success with MH. For me, I want something that is going to be better than my current solution. I posted pictures of those corals because that was what I could do back then. On my next tank, years later, I think I had better results. So for me I want to see results that are at least as good as I could get 10 years ago.

This is true.
My tank was doing "ok" under LED, I just wanted better. Plus I missed the overall look of MH, especially the brightness.

Here's my tank back when it was LED, and 1.5 years old.
Not too shabby, eh?

1 month later I got the MH/T5 fixture and after a couple weeks it looked like this...

About 4 months later it looked like this...

www.everydayreef.com

 

[power boat jim]

Couple of questions for the radium users here, and any on who switched from led

Back story: I have been an led user since Jan 13, t5 before that,. Just switched the tank from hydra 52s to 2 250watt radiums, cayman sun pendants, Hamilton m80 ballasts. The frag tank has a 14k DE hamilton. I left led to give halide a try, and I'm on a quest to get things better. after 2 years of trying to dial in percentages, I managed to grow decent sized sps, but color has always been sub par.

Questions as follows

1. Compared to my hydra 52s, these radiums seem very dim. I thought it was the other way around, everyone always said leds apear dim so "be careful"
The short answear to the question is yes most people do suppliment the radions with something else. They can look a little blue. they dont need supplimentation as far as the coral is concerned but running MH 12 or so hrs a day is more then you need. So most people use somthing else to run for lower light sun up sun down times. Thats where LEDs t/5 can come in.

You can also run the supplimental lights to change the look of the Radiums if you want. The Raduims will burn in and get a bit whiter after a few days but it isnt much.
2. This might answer the above, will the bulb get brighter as it breaks in?

3. I had uv, violet, and royal blue leds so I had a decent amount of coral pop, and things looked decent. Under the radiums, almost all my stuff is completely brown and dull. Were my leds giving me illusions of color I never had?

4. Related to #3, will the radium eventually start flourecing my sps assuming my parameters are legit, or will I possibly need to supplement. I honestly was under the impression, no supplement would be necessary with the 20k radium since I have seen numerous tanks with nothing but halide.

I understand these are strange questions, just trying to see what I should expect since I actually have the lights running now. Thanks

The short answear to the question is yes most people do suppliment the radions with something else. They can look a little blue. they dont need supplimentation as far as the coral is concerned but running MH 12 or so hrs a day is more then you need. So most people use somthing else to run for lower light sun up sun down times. Thats where LEDs t/5 can come in.

You can also run the supplimental lights to change the look of the Radiums if you want. The Raduims will burn in and get a bit whiter after a few days but it isnt much.

 

[Wazzel]

Dennis, I think your tank looked equally super nice under both lighting systems, a bit different maybe.

 

[d2mini]

Dennis, I think your tank looked equally super nice under both lighting systems, a bit different maybe.

Thanks, it's always so hard to really show in pics what you see when actually standing in front of the tank.
But the first two do a decent job at illustrating the difference in overall brightness.
And then I saw increased growth in many coral, just from having a lot more light bathing the coral.
Most of it is just personal preference. Then the increase in growth and stuff is a nice bonus.

 

[power boat jim]

Dennis, I think your tank looked equally super nice under both lighting systems, a bit different maybe.

Agreed, the bright tank looks good but its nice to have the option to tone it down in the evening and enjoy all the subtleness of some of the colors in lower light. Hence the use of LED and MH here.

 

[d2mini]

Agreed, the bright tank looks good but its nice to have the option to tone it down in the evening and enjoy all the subtleness of some of the colors in lower light. Hence the use of LED and MH here.

Yep, that's where my two banks of t5's come in.
Two steps down before going dark.

 

[JPMagyar]

Wow! Love progression shots! Can't wait for another 6 month update. Should be killer!!

 

[d2mini]

That's the old tank before the rebuild, Joe. One of the last shots I took.
So unfortunately no more progression shots from that point.

Now we are here... a bit different!

www.everydayreef.com

 

[JPMagyar]

Couple of questions for the radium users here, and any on who switched from led

Back story: I have been an led user since Jan 13, t5 before that,. Just switched the tank from hydra 52s to 2 250watt radiums, cayman sun pendants, Hamilton m80 ballasts. The frag tank has a 14k DE hamilton. I left led to give halide a try, and I'm on a quest to get things better. after 2 years of trying to dial in percentages, I managed to grow decent sized sps, but color has always been sub par.

Questions as follows

1. Compared to my hydra 52s, these radiums seem very dim. I thought it was the other way around, everyone always said leds apear dim so "be careful"

2. This might answer the above, will the bulb get brighter as it breaks in?

3. I had uv, violet, and royal blue leds so I had a decent amount of coral pop, and things looked decent. Under the radiums, almost all my stuff is completely brown and dull. Were my leds giving me illusions of color I never had?

4. Related to #3, will the radium eventually start flourecing my sps assuming my parameters are legit, or will I possibly need to supplement. I honestly was under the impression, no supplement would be necessary with the 20k radium since I have seen numerous tanks with nothing but halide.

I understand these are strange questions, just trying to see what I should expect since I actually have the lights running now. Thanks

I know others have already given good answers, but I'll add my two cents as well . . .

1) I think the AI on full is heavy on the sparkling white and I could understand how you would consider that "brighter", I would just say that Radiums, regardless of how they look, provide a known quantity when it comes to growth so even if it SEEMs a little dimmer it shouldn't matter to your corals. Also as JB-Joe said above you should research ballasts. The Hamilton Tech eballast set to 275 watts is what you want not the m80.

2) No.


3) Yes. That's why nearly all hard core Radium users supplement with Super Actinic, and that's one reason why I added a Hydra 26 to my fixtures. Without question LEDs give corals "pop" that you simply can not get from halides.

4) No the corals will not "pop" under Radiums alone. Again as I said above virtually all Radium users supplement with other lighting especially for dawn/dusk time when you don't want to be running the Radiums.




My unit with all 3 technologies is to me the absolute answer at the moment. I get incredible moon phase, beautiful dawn/dusk effect with stunning fluorescent colors, the fill in spectrum of T5 for that added coral coloration and then Radiums for the real blast of light one needs for fast growing healthy coral plus deep penetration and broad coverage that surrounds the corals by virtue of the reflector technology.

 

[wildman926]

Here's my tank back when it was LED, and 1.5 years old.
Not too shabby, eh?

1 month later I got the MH/T5 fixture


About 4 months later it looked like this...

Perfect example between the lighting systems. Thread should be closed now....JK..

What I see between the two pictures, is the depth of color and brightness (as stated by D2mini) the MH/T5 setup has over the LED only. You can't deny this, as it is presented for all to see.

 

[d2mini]

Perfect example between the lighting systems. Thread should be closed now....JK..

What I see between the two pictures, is the depth of color and brightness (as stated by D2mini) the MH/T5 setup has over the LED only. You can't deny this, as it is presented for all to see.

I should have mentioned, just for full disclosure, that I had 4 led units over the tank which is 84" long. Enough per the manufacturer's recommendations, but I knew full well I really needed 1-2 more units. This would have giving me better spread and probably would have made it look a little brighter. I was just at a point where I wanted to switch back for a couple other reasons and I couldn't financially justify adding two more, keeping in mind that if I wanted to upgrade in the future, that would be two more to upgrade.




www.everydayreef.com

 

[DavidinGA]

I still want to know why their are so few led+t5 setups for comparison...

Led alone is kinda weak imo, but add t5 supplemental tubes and it's another story.

 

[jpa0741]

Maybe I can get some help here from some of you seasoned pros that mix other lights with leds. I currently am running 2 24" photons over a 32"×32"x26"deep tank. I am happy with them so far. I did light shock a lot of new additions at first running them to high %. Now everything looks pretty happy running them 50% blue 25% white for 4 hours. I ramp up for 3 hours on each end so I have some viewing time. I am adding 4 24" t5. 2 coral plus, 2 purple plus. I am adding these to help growth. My question is how should I add these in the schedule with out shocking everything again. Im afraid if I add them to the peak hours it will shock them. But not sure how much to dial down the leds. Thanks in advance for any help.

 

[wildman926]

I should have mentioned, just for full disclosure, that I had 4 led units over the tank which is 84" long. Enough per the manufacturer's recommendations, but I knew full well I really needed 1-2 more units. This would have giving me better spread and probably would have made it look a little brighter. I was just at a point where I wanted to switch back for a couple other reasons and I couldn't financially justify adding two more, keeping in mind that if I wanted to upgrade in the future, that would be two more to upgrade.

If you had tried to achieve the brightness of the MH/T5 setup with your LED setup, you would fry your corals. That is what I experienced with going from T5 only, to LED only. I am now with T5 ATI/Gieseman bulbs and LED 453nm actinics for the pop. It has the same 10k look I pointed out in JB NY's post.

 

[redwhiteandblue]

Thank you all for your responses. Pretty much sums up what I was looking for. I bought 3 m80 ballasts, so those are the ones I will be stuck using until further notice. I Ave plans to add my ai sols or 52s to the mix if I can figure out how to do it. 2 13x13 pendants over a 48 inch tank is already taking up quite a bit of space. for now I'm going to just sit back, and watch things start to change befOr the better hopefully. Afterall, this tank is a temporary from my 180 to new house transition where I will be going to a six or 8 footer once again