Anyone Thinking of Dumping LEDS and going back to Halides

[andrewbram]

Here are pictures of the 2 frags that I am doing my experiment with.

The first is the frag under the MH. The color is MUCH easier to see and photograph on this side of the tank. The second is the one under the LED's. You can see that everything looks more purple. The colors are actually much closer to the other one.

MH Frag



LED Frag

Lps do you have a status I am very iterated in your results

 

[lpsouth1978]

Lps do you have a status I am very iterated in your results

I do have some data, though it is not extremely conclusive. Here is what I have so far:

Both have lost a lot of color, though the MH frag still has some purple, the green is still fairly vibrant, and still has excellent polyp extension. The LED frag has browned out completely and has very little poly extension.

The growth so far is:

MH frag -
2/20/16 - 13.5g
2/27/16 - 14.8g
3/04/16 - 15.0g
3/11/16 - 16.0g
Total Growth = 2.5g

LED frag -
2/20/16 - 11.2g
2/27/16 - 12.0g
3/04/16 - 12.1g
3/11/16 - 12.3g
Total Growth = 1.1g

The conclusion so far is that the MH frag definitely has better growth than the LED frag, however the color is not fantastic on either one. I am going to extend this experiment in the hopes that the loss of color is primarily due to the new tank and different lighting. Given a few more weeks, I hope to see color return.

 

[karimwassef]

I recommend spot delivery of Restor to both frags. I've found it substantially benefits corals in stress (like fragging or light changes).

 

[DavidinGA]

I do have some data, though it is not extremely conclusive. Here is what I have so far:

Both have lost a lot of color, though the MH frag still has some purple, the green is still fairly vibrant, and still has excellent polyp extension. The LED frag has browned out completely and has very little poly extension.

The growth so far is:

MH frag -
2/20/16 - 13.5g
2/27/16 - 14.8g
3/04/16 - 15.0g
3/11/16 - 16.0g
Total Growth = 2.5g

LED frag -
2/20/16 - 11.2g
2/27/16 - 12.0g
3/04/16 - 12.1g
3/11/16 - 12.3g
Total Growth = 1.1g

The conclusion so far is that the MH frag definitely has better growth than the LED frag, however the color is not fantastic on either one. I am going to extend this experiment in the hopes that the loss of color is primarily due to the new tank and different lighting. Given a few more weeks, I hope to see color return.

Remind me... Which led and mh systems are you running?

 

[biglurr54]

I need some help from you metal halide gurus. I am lighting a 60 gallon cube. 24x24x24. I am considering a 150 Phoenix 14k hqi with led supplement. The leds would be 16 luxeon royal blue and 4 violet 420 leds. The mh for visible light, growth, and color. The leds for actinic pop, par, and growth.

Would this be enough light to keep a clam at the sand bed in a 24 inch deep tank? I am thinking a 150 halide over 250 because the leds will add a lot of par and the leds plus 250 halide could bleach the coral? Is this thinking correct? Is this a good compromise of metal halide and led?

 

[karimwassef]

For LPS, softies and a clam... Looks ok.

For SPS, I would bump it to 400W HQI and get a decent reflector. I like the Hamilton myself.

 

[biglurr54]

Would sps be good at the top half of the tank? 400 watts seems like a lot for a 60 gallon tank.

 

[andrewbram]

I do have some data, though it is not extremely conclusive. Here is what I have so far:

Both have lost a lot of color, though the MH frag still has some purple, the green is still fairly vibrant, and still has excellent polyp extension. The LED frag has browned out completely and has very little poly extension.

The growth so far is:

MH frag -
2/20/16 - 13.5g
2/27/16 - 14.8g
3/04/16 - 15.0g
3/11/16 - 16.0g
Total Growth = 2.5g

LED frag -
2/20/16 - 11.2g
2/27/16 - 12.0g
3/04/16 - 12.1g
3/11/16 - 12.3g
Total Growth = 1.1g

The conclusion so far is that the MH frag definitely has better growth than the LED frag, however the color is not fantastic on either one. I am going to extend this experiment in the hopes that the loss of color is primarily due to the new tank and different lighting. Given a few more weeks, I hope to see color return.

I agree let it run longer I have done a lot of reading and it looks like there will be a 20% difference in growth. Plus one must consider acclimation to led I do believe acclimation is key I think led will do it but it just takes longer to get results.

 

[lpsouth1978]

Remind me... Which led and mh systems are you running?

I am running 2 x 250W 14k Phoenix, on HQI ballasts, over one end. The LED is in my signature. It is a custom fixture that my roommate and I built. the 2/3 of the tank, that are currently LED, consists of 304 x 3W Cree XPE and XPG diodes, except for the violets which, if I remember correctly, are Luxeon.

The colors used were (for the 2/3rds of the tank) are:

60 x Neutral White @ 1000mA @ 100%
124 x Royal Blue @ 1000mA @ 100%
36 x Blue @ 700mA @ 100%
24 x Red @ 700mA @ 25%
36 x Cyan @ 700mA @ 25%
24 x 420nm Violet @ 700mA @ 100%

Hope this helps. This is certainly not a test of any one system, just a comparison between my MH and LED systems, so it must be taken with a grain of salt.

 

[karimwassef]

Can you measure PAR over time too?

 

[sirreal63]

I do have some data, though it is not extremely conclusive. Here is what I have so far:

Both have lost a lot of color, though the MH frag still has some purple, the green is still fairly vibrant, and still has excellent polyp extension. The LED frag has browned out completely and has very little poly extension.

The growth so far is:

MH frag -
2/20/16 - 13.5g
2/27/16 - 14.8g
3/04/16 - 15.0g
3/11/16 - 16.0g
Total Growth = 2.5g

LED frag -
2/20/16 - 11.2g
2/27/16 - 12.0g
3/04/16 - 12.1g
3/11/16 - 12.3g
Total Growth = 1.1g

The conclusion so far is that the MH frag definitely has better growth than the LED frag, however the color is not fantastic on either one. I am going to extend this experiment in the hopes that the loss of color is primarily due to the new tank and different lighting. Given a few more weeks, I hope to see color return.

You may need to acclimate and increase feeding, if they are turning pale they are either getting more light than they are used to or they are hungry, maybe both.

 

[sirreal63]

I need some help from you metal halide gurus. I am lighting a 60 gallon cube. 24x24x24. I am considering a 150 Phoenix 14k hqi with led supplement. The leds would be 16 luxeon royal blue and 4 violet 420 leds. The mh for visible light, growth, and color. The leds for actinic pop, par, and growth.

Would this be enough light to keep a clam at the sand bed in a 24 inch deep tank? I am thinking a 150 halide over 250 because the leds will add a lot of par and the leds plus 250 halide could bleach the coral? Is this thinking correct? Is this a good compromise of metal halide and led?

The 150's will work, though not ideal. What ballast and fixture is it? It makes a difference.

 

[biglurr54]

It's all up for negotiation. I have a coralife aqua light in the attic but I don't think that would provide enough spread. I would probably got with a Hamilton cayman sun and not sure which ballast. Would a 250 be ideal? I worry about temp swings with that much.

 

[sirreal63]

Forget the Corallife. The Hamilton is a proper reflector and paired with the M81 ballast will be enough par and spread. Don't confuse wattage with par, a properly setup 150 can provide more par than a poorly setup 250. The Phoenix is a good bulb when driven with the correct M81 ballast.

 

[biglurr54]

What makes a ballast a good one or bad one? Magnetic or electric?

 

[sirreal63]

Bulbs are designed to work with a specific ballast, so the best performance, longevity and color are achieved with the ballast the bulb was designed for. In the case of the DE 150, that is the magnetic M81. A 150 watt electronic ballast will fire the bulb but will not drive it properly. The DE bulb expects to see somewhere around 160-165 watts IIRC. The M81 will provide this and the electronic will not.

 

[jda]

^ 100% on all of this. Well done 150W DE Phoenix on M81 is a very good combo that will grow coral quite nicely without too much electricity.

A lot of cheap fixtures butchered HQI and gave them a bad name - Coralife was one of them along with Odyssea (way worse) and a few more. Aquamedic, Giesmann and some others are high quality 150W fixtures.

 

[jda]

lps - give it some time... it has only been a week or two. It is likely that this might be as much light as that frag has seen in a while, or ever. I usually tell people to wait 60-90 days after a light change for everything to get adjusted at take a baseline.

 

[biglurr54]

Would a properly setup 250 be better or would it be overkill with the leds

 

[jda]

It will be more light, but better is up to you. I used 3x150W HQI on m81 over a standard 180 (6x2x2) and just kept the higher light SPS in the top half (Purple Monster, Pearlberry, etc.) and it was enough light for almost anything if you placed the coral smartly. I feared keeping a maxima or crocea clam in this setup, but I had a beautiful 10" blue-rim deresa that grew from a ORA mini and also a gigas that grew well too.

It was about 540W in total... which is not all that bad for a 180G. I would do it again.