Tickyty
New member
Did you just solder all these component together or did you use a bread board etc?
anyone tried to using Jebo WP40?
- Thread starter chercm
- Start date
Did you just solder all these component together or did you use a bread board etc?
Sacohen
New member
This is directed mainly toward those who are using the WP40 with a controller (Reef Angel, Apex).
I'm about to take the plunge and get a Reef Angel and the $25 cable to connect the pump to the PWM.
The preset wave setting (like reefcrest) work with one pump or do you need two?
I'm about to take the plunge and get a Reef Angel and the $25 cable to connect the pump to the PWM.
The preset wave setting (like reefcrest) work with one pump or do you need two?
Haxer
Member
@rrasco,
Could you explain a "tap fraction" a little bit...
Just wanted to know what I am looking for in a Pot to give this a try...
rrasco
Active member
Re: Variable Voltage Power Supply
This pump runs on 24v. No question about that. Giving it less than 24v is not what the pump was designed to run on. ALL speed controls to this pump are to be done by sending a dimming signal to the 5v VA line, NOT by reducing the available voltage to the pump. The Jebao controller does not adjust the 24v available to the pump, it reduces the voltage on the VA line to tell the pump at which speed it should be running, if at all.
I understand not everyone knows how motor control works, but you don't do it by limiting the source voltage unless the pump is designed that way. It's common knowledge that if the pump needs 24v to run, it needs 24v to run. This specific pump has a dimming line, the VA line, so that indicates that is how this pump was designed to be dimmed. I've stated so in this thread already, but nobody wants to listen.
Take this for a shot at an example, no matter how applicable, I hope the theory translates. If your head lights were too bright and you were able to make them less bright by reducing the voltage your car battery supplies by using a smaller battery, say 6v. Would you do it? This might make the headlights dimmer, which is what your intent is, but does that mean it's the correct way you should do it? No.
I have not done this yet, but through my simulations you should be able to accomplish this through the pot alone, you don't need the transistor etc. My theory is your pot was not able to accommodate the top end of the signal, it should be possible with a pot that does.
This pump runs on 24v. No question about that. Giving it less than 24v is not what the pump was designed to run on. ALL speed controls to this pump are to be done by sending a dimming signal to the 5v VA line, NOT by reducing the available voltage to the pump. The Jebao controller does not adjust the 24v available to the pump, it reduces the voltage on the VA line to tell the pump at which speed it should be running, if at all.
I understand not everyone knows how motor control works, but you don't do it by limiting the source voltage unless the pump is designed that way. It's common knowledge that if the pump needs 24v to run, it needs 24v to run. This specific pump has a dimming line, the VA line, so that indicates that is how this pump was designed to be dimmed. I've stated so in this thread already, but nobody wants to listen.
Take this for a shot at an example, no matter how applicable, I hope the theory translates. If your head lights were too bright and you were able to make them less bright by reducing the voltage your car battery supplies by using a smaller battery, say 6v. Would you do it? This might make the headlights dimmer, which is what your intent is, but does that mean it's the correct way you should do it? No.
I have not done this yet, but through my simulations you should be able to accomplish this through the pot alone, you don't need the transistor etc. My theory is your pot was not able to accommodate the top end of the signal, it should be possible with a pot that does.
rrasco
Active member
Tap fraction refers to the setting on the pot. For example, a tap fraction of .5 would mean the pot is allowing 50% of the voltage through. At a tap fraction of 1.0 the pot would be wide open. I believe the tap fraction of salty joe's pot was unable to reach 1.0, which was limiting the 'top end' of his dimming signal. The circuit he posted actually allows more than 6v through the pot, but with his pot unable to reach a 1.0 tap fraction I believe at max it was allowing around 5v, which is why it worked for him.
I need to test on my own to verify all of this, but my simulations show this is the case.
SimonSKL
New member
Isn't it critically important that the VA voltage to the pump should never exceed 5V or pump damage will result? If Saltyjoe's skimatics will lead to more than 6V through the pot, I will be very reluctant to try that. I am looking forward to you finding the right pot for us (with spec and where to buy them will be much appreciated).
Tickyty
New member
+1:beer:
rrasco
Active member
That depends on the internal circuitry of the pump itself. Until someone opens one, we don't know. It may be able to handle it, it may not. I wouldn't be willing to try on mine.
I once accidentally hooked up a dimming line that was supposed to be 5v to a 12v source on my bank of DIY LED drivers, to test. Yeah, I had to get all new driver chips for those. So in general, you don't want to exceed the voltage on the dimming line.
Colin
New member
So help me understand what's going on here.
What exactly does the 5V VA line do to the pump to slow it down?
Here's why I ask. According to what I've read here, a decrease in voltage from the wall should mean an increase in the amperage used by the pump to even out the wattage required. I hooked up my Kill-A-Watt and got the following measurements:
24VDC in on High mode = 0.51A
16VDC in on High mode = 0.27A
Now, shouldn't the current pulled go up as the voltage supplied goes down? What am I missing here?
--Colin
rrasco
Active member
That's part of the problem, we don't know. We just know the stock controller uses a 5V signal to control the pump. The internals of the pump could have a PWM generator, it could be using a mosfet. We just don't know.
Are you using the variable power supply to accomplish this? And what lines did you connect your kill-a-watt to? I didn't make the claim about voltage versus current so I'm not sure what the thinking on that was. That is probably derived from the fact that IV=P. Current*Voltage=Power(wattage). So in theory, as voltage goes up, current goes down.
What I do know is the pump ALWAYS should receive 24v. PWM can be a tricky thing, because if you hook up a 24v line with a 50% duty cycle and connect a meter to it, it will read 12v, but that is incorrect. It's still at 24v it's just interpreted by the meter at 12v, because that is how PWM works.
BrooksReef
New member
How do I install the light sensor?
Colin
New member
Sacohen
New member
Make sure the power is off to the controller
Then just plug it into the two holes on the side of the controller.
If the power is not off you could damage the controller.
BrooksReef
New member
Got it! Thanks you!
And holy crap... these things are strong.
And holy crap... these things are strong.
Sacohen
New member
Also if you have problems with the controller not going into night mode when all the lights are out it may be because the sensor actually needs a little bit of light.
I know this sounds weird, but my controller was working fine in normal mode with all my PC lights on.
at 9pm when the white went out and the actnincs were the only thing on it would go into night mode, then when the actinics went out and there was just the moon lights and ambient light in the room it wen back to normal mode.
I finally moved one of the moonlight right next to the controller on the sensor side and it worked fine.
Someone else had the orange light from a power strip close to the sensor and that was enough light to keep it in night mode.
X2. If you don't want to listen to people that understand motors, by all means, run your pump at whatever voltage you want. Run it at 50 volts, you should see the flow!
Colin
New member
So maybe you can explain to me how the speed is changed at the motor level in this pump?
I'm not pretending to know the ins-and-outs of motors. I don't. I'm trying to learn a little more about how all this works. To that end, these "because I said so" answers aren't any benefit.
--C
rrasco
Active member
Unlikely, but not impossible. If it was though, why would there even be a VA line? If the pump needed variable voltage to adjust the speed, the Jebao controller would not even bother with the VA line and just alter the voltage going to the pump. You could always open your pump up and take some pictures for us.
There are two options:
PWM, which is a constant voltage (24v) with a duty cycle (25%, 50%, etc) that tells the motor at which respective speed to run.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Duty_cycle
The other is a MOSFET. Which acts essentially the same way that a mechanical switch would. Imagine if you sat there and flipped a light switch on and off as fast as you could. That's how this would work, but much faster than you could do it manually. This is actually how LEDs are dimmed. When an LED is at 50% power, it's actually being switched off 50% of the time.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MOSFET
SimonSKL
New member
Is there any published data out there quantitifying motor wear between motor controlled by variable voltages vs motor controlled by PWM signals with fixed voltage?
I don't know much about electronics and don't really know when PWM was first utilized. There must be some studies done to compare impact of electrical equipment after PWM was discovered.
My scientific mind will only accept documented proof and not just "I said so" as Colin said.
No one in their right mind will run a 24V pump with a 50V to prove you are right, Andy. But we just want to know how negative, if any, the pump will be affected by lower voltages, specifically between 12V and 24V. If the wear is 5% or less a year, most people will accept using lower voltages to control the pump as it is much simpler. If the wear is 10% or more, that will be a whole different story.
I don't know much about electronics and don't really know when PWM was first utilized. There must be some studies done to compare impact of electrical equipment after PWM was discovered.
My scientific mind will only accept documented proof and not just "I said so" as Colin said.
No one in their right mind will run a 24V pump with a 50V to prove you are right, Andy. But we just want to know how negative, if any, the pump will be affected by lower voltages, specifically between 12V and 24V. If the wear is 5% or less a year, most people will accept using lower voltages to control the pump as it is much simpler. If the wear is 10% or more, that will be a whole different story.
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