Apex - equipment list for complete automation?

[J Crew]

Hello, I'm looking at picking up a used Waterbox 96gal setup, with the sump, locally and I would like to automate as much as I can. The ATO, Tank Lights, and Powerheads are being run by an Ecotech controller, which is fine with me. But for everything else I'd like to use Apex. I've searched the forums, but there's so much apex stuff that I can't find what I'm looking for, and that is an equipment list of parts that I'll need. So I apologize if this has been asked/covered previously.

I'd like to automate:

• Water changes
• RO water management
• Dosing
• ATO (maybe, if it makes more sense to have apex control this with the other automations)
• Salinity monitoring

It would be a massive help to me, if any of you that have the experience and have built these automations already, to list the pieces of equipment that I'll need to accomplish this. I will have a separate room (nearby bathroom) to house all of the holding containers and to plumb in water.

If you need more info from me then let me know what else I need to provide. Thank you so much in advance!

 

[kharmaguru]

• Water changes
• RO water management
• Dosing
• ATO (maybe, if it makes more sense to have apex control this with the other automations)

Water changes

Neptune DOS setup for AWC

https://www.neptunesystems.com/getstarted/dos-2/dos-awc/

RO water management

Need more info about what you want to accomplish.

Dosing

Neptune DOS

https://www.neptunesystems.com/getstarted/dos-2/dos-additive/

ATO (maybe, if it makes more sense to have apex control this with the other automations)

Neptune ATK. Seen a fair bit of complaints about this system. Maybe it's better now.

https://www.neptunesystems.com/getstarted/atk-help/

 

[griss]

Water changes

Neptune DOS setup for AWC

https://www.neptunesystems.com/getstarted/dos-2/dos-awc/

RO water management

Need more info about what you want to accomplish.

Dosing

Neptune DOS

https://www.neptunesystems.com/getstarted/dos-2/dos-additive/

ATO (maybe, if it makes more sense to have apex control this with the other automations)

Neptune ATK. Seen a fair bit of complaints about this system. Maybe it's better now.

https://www.neptunesystems.com/getstarted/atk-help/

What Sean said above. Regarding the Neptune ATK, they recently came out (not sure when) with a newer "improved" version. I don't know if the reports Sean mentioned have to do with the old ATK or the newer version.

 

[J Crew]

RO water management

Need more info about what you want to accomplish.

I would like it to turn on/off automatically and fill a freshwater holding container. This container would then be used for ATO.

I would also need the RO system to fill a second container that I would use to transfer into my saltwater mix container. This is where I need help understanding what pieces of equipment and the mechanics of how I can accomplish the RO system handling two different containers. I hope this makes sense the way I typed it.

 

[griss]

I would like it to turn on/off automatically and fill a freshwater holding container. This container would then be used for ATO.

I would also need the RO system to fill a second container that I would use to transfer into my saltwater mix container. This is where I need help understanding what pieces of equipment and the mechanics of how I can accomplish the RO system handling two different containers. I hope this makes sense the way I typed it.

What I do with my system is this. I have a 20 gallon Brute trashcan for top off water. I put a float valve near the top of the trashcan and connect to the product line of the RODI system. I then installed one of these on my RODI system. When the trashcan is full, the float valve creates back pressure that triggers the shutoff valve to turn the RODI system off. Simple and much cheaper than spending the $$$ on a controller for this function. Plus, I've had this running for 15+ years and, knock on wood, haven't had a failure yet.

 

[J Crew]

@griss I’m definitely a fan of ‘keep it simple stupid’. I really like this solution. So basically I could just manually transfer the product line between two different containers. Each container would have their own float value. Moving the product line ‘as needed’ to fill each container. Am I understanding this correctly?

Any particular float valve that you’ve found works best? Thank you again.

 

[griss]

@griss I’m definitely a fan of ‘keep it simple stupid’. I really like this solution. So basically I could just manually transfer the product line between two different containers. Each container would have their own float value. Moving the product line ‘as needed’ to fill each container. Am I understanding this correctly?

Any particular float valve that you’ve found works best? Thank you again.

Actually, no need to move the product line. Just put a "T" fitting in the RODI product line and run a tube to the float valve in each container

No personal preference on a float valve. The one I've been using for a long time is from SpectraPure.

One negative to this system you're going to want to consider though, is TDS creep. Basically, what happens is, when your container(s) are full your RODI system is not in use, TDS creep back out of the membrane into the housing. Then, when the water level drops in the container(s) that TDS loaded water travels into your DI cartridges and will deplete them fairly quickly. For this reason, I have a "T" fitting between my membrane and DI carts. One side of the T is water coming from the RO membrane, the other goes to waste with a shutoff valve before the drain and the third goes to the DI with another shutoff valve BEFORE the DI.

This is a bit hard to explain, but here is how I previously explained it. I know it's a bit difficult to understand without visuals. Given me a few minutes, I'm on my lunch break and will try to put together a crude visual.

 

[griss]

I'll preface to say, years ago I was going though DI resin like crazy. I did some research and learned about TDS creep and adjusted my system accordingly. Since the change, my DI lasts well up to a year.

Hopefully, this will make sense. I struggle to explain in words, so I hope the diagram helps. I know this is a crude example and my system is not set up exactly like this as I tried to draw it linear to make it easier to understand. So, the flow goes like this.

1. Incoming water from tap
2. Micron Cartridge
3. Carbon Block
4. Chloramine Cartridge (depending on your tap water, you may not need this)
5. RO Membrane
6. T Fitting
6a. Goes to the Shutoff Valve on the Cation Cartridge
6b. Goes to the Shutoff Valve going to Waste
7. Cation Cartridge
8. Anion Cartridge
9. Mixed Bed Cartridge
10. To the Float Valve in my Storage Container

When not in use, both Shutoff Valves are closed. When I need to make water, I first open the Shutoff Valve going to waste. This allow the TDS creep laden water to be disposed of. Note: I have a dual inline TDS meter on the system with one probe right after the membrane and one after the DI. When I first open the valve to waste, I frequently (depending on how long it's been since I ran the unit) hit over 100 TDS. After 5-10 minutes, the TDS drops down into the single digits and I close the waste valve and open the valve to the DI.

 

[J Crew]

Wow... thank you. This is awesome. Yep, I totally grasp it now.

Okay, I think I have my RODI water management plan. @griss who are the people to buy the RODI system from out there?

I'll start researching the links provided above for the apex automation. Also, any other input from other members is still very much welcomed!

 

[griss]

Glad I was able to help out. My system has been pieced together over the years. It started out as a SpectraPure 3-stage (micron, carbon, RO) that I got from Premium Aquatics a million years ago. Sometime in the mid to late 90s I added a single SpectraPure add-on mixed bed DI unit. Sometime later, I added the chloramine unit. Later, I added a Bulk Reef Supply Dual DI Unit so I could run separate Cation and Anion resins. I follow those with the Mixed Bed in case one resin depletes and I don't notice. Finally, I added an AquaFX booster pump because we have low water pressure in the house.

Anyway, to answer your question AquaFX, Buckeye Hydro, Bulk Reef Supply, IceCap and SpectraPure (in alphabetical order) are all reputable systems IMO.

 

[griss]

BTW, I think you'll like the Apex. I'm not very techie and tend to go old school with my reef but I picked up a used Apex Jr a while back from a member on here and have been very happy with it.

I see Sean didn't address the Salinity feature and I asked the same a while back. The general consensus was that this is not a reliable way to monitor salinity as the probes are not very accurate.

 

[J Crew]

Okay, you’ve been super helpful. And yeah, it seems to be a mixed bag of reviews on the salinity monitoring.

I’ve gone down a rabbit hole on this Apex stuff. I know I need the automation because this system will be in my office and I won’t be there during the weekends and when I go on trips out of town to visit clients. But there’s just so much. I recognized Apex as a brand which is why I started there with my research, but now I’ve run across this ghl profilux 4 controller that looks to be extremely nice. I think it can accomplish the same, so now I’m just reading a bunch so I pick what’s best for me from the beginning. Good news is that I have all weekend to go down as many rabbit holes as I can find, lol.

Thanks again for all the help!

 

[griss]

No problem, happy to help. I’ve also heard glowing reviews of the Hydros controllers.

 

[J Crew]

Pulled the trigger on a used GHL Profilux 4 Max with an extra power bar. I'm going to try this one out I think. Seems to be as powerful as the Apex but alittle more user friendly. We'll see I guess. My thought is I can always sell it and buy something different if I don't like it.

 

[griss]

Pulled the trigger on a used GHL Profilux 4 Max with an extra power bar. I'm going to try this one out I think. Seems to be as powerful as the Apex but alittle more user friendly. We'll see I guess. My thought is I can always sell it and buy something different if I don't like it.

Awesome. Please keep us posted