Apex/ReefKeeper and ATO questions

[pkane11384]

Okay i'm starting to research my purchase of a controller. I'm in between the Apex and ReefKeeper. I would be controlling everything in my tank except my AI Sol and Vortech. Which system would suit me better?

Also purchasing an ATO in the next week. In between the Tunze 3155 and 3152.

Any input would be great. Thanks

 

[ca1ore]

Hard to go wrong with either. I recently took the plunge and went with Apex. Just seemed better suited to my needs and has an awesome support community.

 

[Pastey]

Not sure why you WOULND'T want to control your AI or Vortech since those are some of the things that benefit a lot from flexible control but I've really liked my Apex but I don't have experience with any other controllers. If going with the Tunze top off, I would rely on the Tunze controller. As a redundant back up, you can buy/install a breakout box with a high line float switch to turn off the Tunze pump although Tunze already has a certain degree of overfill protection.

 

[sanababit]

Go for the apex, then in the future when you decide to control your vortechs and ai sol you will be got to go

Sana

 

[LobsterOfJustice]

If you are going with a premade ATO, the most you can do with the apex is limit the about of time the entire device is off and on (I'm pretty sure the same is true for the KRE but I've never had one). Kind of useless to plug a stand-alone ATO into a controller IMO. Save yourself some money and actually use the apex as the topoff controller, it will give you a lot more flexability than the tunze unit and will be much cheaper.

 

[don_chuwish]

I actually think its hard to beat the Tunze for cost AND performance by getting float switches, break out box and a pump separately. Float switches are flakey. I'm using the JBJ (2 float switches) and it can't decide how high or low to keep the level. Easily an inch of variance depending on its mood.
Let the Tunze do its thing, put it on a controlled outlet for when you do water changes and so you can integrate an emergency full power off based on Ph swing (if doing Kalk ATO water) or water on the floor sensor or... Many scenarios that controllers save our tanks/homes from.

 

[ryeguyy84]

Use the apex with a float switch for low water level and have a high level switch as an emergency backup.

 

[D-Nak]

If you are going with a premade ATO, the most you can do with the apex is limit the about of time the entire device is off and on (I'm pretty sure the same is true for the KRE but I've never had one). Kind of useless to plug a stand-alone ATO into a controller IMO. Save yourself some money and actually use the apex as the topoff controller, it will give you a lot more flexability than the tunze unit and will be much cheaper.

I have to disagree with this. As others mentioned, the Osmolator is a great standalone unit, and worth the added protection it has (aside from the optical switch and back-up float), my favorite feature is the fact that it automatically shuts off the pump if it runs dry and stays off until its re-set. I also like the high water alarm. Granted these features can be taken care of with the Apex, but I didn't need to buy a break out box and sensor or float switch, hook it all up, nor did I need to program anything.

I use my Osmolator WITH my Apex. During a feed cycle, I have my Apex turn off my Osmolator, this way the high water level alarm doesn't sound.

 

[LobsterOfJustice]

I have to disagree with this. As others mentioned, the Osmolator is a great standalone unit, and worth the added protection it has (aside from the optical switch and back-up float), my favorite feature is the fact that it automatically shuts off the pump if it runs dry and stays off until its re-set. I also like the high water alarm. Granted these features can be taken care of with the Apex, but I didn't need to buy a break out box and sensor or float switch, hook it all up, nor did I need to program anything.

I use my Osmolator WITH my Apex. During a feed cycle, I have my Apex turn off my Osmolator, this way the high water level alarm doesn't sound.

If you already have the apex, the BoB and floats are still half the price of the Tunze. Not to mention the BoB is useful for several other things as well. With the apex you can program in all the functionality of the tunze plus more. For example I get an email if the ATO switch is activated for more than three minutes, or if the ATO is not activated for 8 hours (both of these would indicate a stuck switch). I also have a max time on my pump, as well as a second high level switch for backup. There are so many different ways to do the ATO with the apex you can make it exactly what you want.

 

[ryeguyy84]

If you already have the apex, the BoB and floats are still half the price of the Tunze. Not to mention the BoB is useful for several other things as well. With the apex you can program in all the functionality of the tunze plus more. For example I get an email if the ATO switch is activated for more than three minutes, or if the ATO is not activated for 8 hours (both of these would indicate a stuck switch). I also have a max time on my pump, as well as a second high level switch for backup. There are so many different ways to do the ATO with the apex you can make it exactly what you want.

What code did you use to email after 3 minutes? I can't figure out how to do that.

Also here is a DIY for the breakout box. http://reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1847474

of you could do what I did and cut the wire solder it and heat shrink it. it's not pretty but it works great.

 

[LobsterOfJustice]

Make a virtual outlet:

[ATO_Max_Time]
Set OFF
If Switch1 CLOSED Then ON [or whatever your swtich number and switch orientation is]
Defer 003:00 Then ON

Add the line:

If outlet ATO_Max_Time = ON then OFF

to your physical ATO pump outlet to turn the ATO pump off water 3:00

Add the line:

If outlet ATO_Max_Time = ON then ON

to your pre-existing email outlet.

 

[D-Nak]

I guess my point is that out of the box, an Osmolator is pretty sweet. Here's what you'd need to buy if you were to put something together that's equivalent:

1. BoB (or build your own)
2. Small pump with tubing
3. Optical sensor
4. Back-up float switch
5. Another float switch (on the top off container to simulate a run dry scenario, or buy the same Tunze pump)
6. Magnet mounts
7. Small buzzer or alarm (Osmolator has a loud alarm telling you when the water is too high)
8. All wiring and connectors
9. Time sourcing the parts, putting it together, and programming

For DIYers, it's not a big deal. For others, it's just a lot easier to buy one that's pre-built and partially pre-programmed with its own control box, with lights telling you when it's on, when there's an emergency, high and low water levels, etc. Obviously we're going to pay a premium for this. While I definitely agree it could be DIYed and is cheaper, I just don't know how much cheaper it really is when you take into account the labor involved, so I can't agree that it's "Kind of useless to plug a stand-alone ATO."

 

[eyesinthedrk]

i found out my APEX needed a firmware update when when over the course of a week the apex repeatedly locked up in whatever current phase it was running. this means if lights were on they stayed on. if heaters were off they stayed off. had i been using the BoB ato at the time it would have meant that if the top off pump was on it stayed on.

now dont get me wrong, on another day, it could have just as easily been the ato that locked up and not the apex. but the lesson i learned was not to make the apex a single point total system failure. for that reason i bought a jbj ato. i still plug it in to the eb8 so i can shut it off for water change or any other reason i purposely lower my water levels for a small amount of time.

 

[ryeguyy84]

Thanks for the code lobster, that not something I would have thought of on my own haha.

once I get home i'll add that, i haven't logged into DYDNS in a while and I guess I went inactive.

 

[LobsterOfJustice]

I guess my point is that out of the box, an Osmolator is pretty sweet. Here's what you'd need to buy if you were to put something together that's equivalent:

1. BoB (or build your own)
2. Small pump with tubing
3. Optical sensor
4. Back-up float switch
5. Another float switch (on the top off container to simulate a run dry scenario, or buy the same Tunze pump)
6. Magnet mounts
7. Small buzzer or alarm (Osmolator has a loud alarm telling you when the water is too high)
8. All wiring and connectors
9. Time sourcing the parts, putting it together, and programming

For DIYers, it's not a big deal. For others, it's just a lot easier to buy one that's pre-built and partially pre-programmed with its own control box, with lights telling you when it's on, when there's an emergency, high and low water levels, etc. Obviously we're going to pay a premium for this. While I definitely agree it could be DIYed and is cheaper, I just don't know how much cheaper it really is when you take into account the labor involved, so I can't agree that it's "Kind of useless to plug a stand-alone ATO."

It's really a lot simpler than you are describing. There is not wiring and connectors, the apex base also has a built in sound alarm. All you need is a BoB, 2 float switches, and a way to mount them (I glued them to an old mag float), and a pump (most people have one or two laying around).

I used to have a osmolator, and I have not found the laser eye sensor to be any more reliable than a float switch. Stuff grows on it, calcium precipitates on it, and the even the laser sensor sticks. The apex allows you to program in multiple failsafes to make up for the fact that float switches aren't super reliable.