aquamaxx ConeS CO 1 skimmer review
- Thread starter reeftivo
- Start date
Before I take ReefPharmer up on his generous offer in post #383, I don't want to be known as being the subject of an "œunclear of the concept" cartoon. I feel like a kid still riding around on training wheels while his friends are all popping wheelies and doing handstands around him!
In a nutshell, I've had a problem getting my CO-1 to skim. Interspersed around all the accolades are multiple posts trying to fix the problem, so I thought it would be useful to summarize where I am at instead of having to go back to find related posts.
Having had some freshwater experience many, many years ago, I decided to get into the saltwater hobby last October. As a lurker I used these forums as well as many others for research and advice in deciding what to do. As I type this I thought about adding "˜ka-ching' every time I spend more money, but since this is a given for this hobby, why waste the typing? Anyway, after some research, I decided to go with a 29 gallon Biocube AOI. However, my LFS convinced me that bigger is better (and easier) so I went with a reef ready 72 gallon bow front with a 20 gal sump. I thought that I would eventually want to consider corals, but to start I would set it up as a FOWLR. Along with the tank, I set it up with LR, living sand, as well as adding some "˜bacteria in a bottle.' Besides the LR, filtration was an Eheim filter sock.
I cycled the tank, and never saw an ammonia or nitrite spike. Gradually added fish and a CUC, and was merrily enjoying the new hobby. Getting sick of buying distilled water to use to top off and changes,in early November I bought a Spectrpure MaxCap RODI system, using a Rubbermaid Brute barrel for storage. Water changes were made up in brand new 5 gallon food safe buckets from Lowe's, and IO Reef Crystals.
In December, I decided I was getting tired of having to change and clean the filter socks each week (which I rinsed in tap water (no chemicals), soaked in dilute unscented bleach, rinsed in RODI, and air dryed). The socks were trapping a lot of gunk. My nitrates rose to around 40 ppm, so I decided to invest in my first ever protein skimmer as an after XMAS present. After reading up on my options, I decided to go with the CO-1. In addition to its excellent performance, it was rated to work between 6 and 10 inches of water, right in the range of my sump, which I ran at I was lucky enough to get one just before the new year.
At the same time I got my CO-1, I suffered an ich outbreak. I decided to go with hyposalinity treatment. I picked up a used 29 gal biocube, set it up, move my CUC to it, and started treatment in my DT. I had the skimmer, so I installed it, but after researching I new that performance would be poor in hyposalinity conditions, so I wasn't disappointed that I wasn't collecting anything with it.
After 3 months (end of March) I hope I had successfully eradicated the ich, and I was back to 1.025 SG. This is when I tried to tune the skimmer. I would adjust it to spit some foam out the collection plate hole, and it sort of worked, with some very weak tea colored skimate, but not like I expected. In addition, every couple of days it would "˜burp', the skimmer would be full, and even the collection cup lid would have residue of gunk on it. Sometimes, I would see water pouring through the collection cup, so I would dial it down. After a few days of it doing nothing, I would dial it back up. Eventually, it would "˜burp' again, I was back to square one.
Researching the skimmer, I thought the issue might be that I was shutting off for 5 minutes when I shut-off my return pump and the sump filled when I fed my tank (the LFS recommended "œfeed your livestock not the filter."). In addition, it seemed performance was best at around 9" of water, which was pretty high for my sump. It seemed not that easy to install a baffle system in a working sump, so I found a plastic container 9" high that would serve as the equivalent of a baffle system, that I installed in early April. I put the skimmer in the tub so it could run 24/7 with a constant 9" height, as the rest of the sump would fill but not go higher than the top of the plastic tub when I shut-off the return pump. However, this did not improve anything, same symptoms (not skimate, followed by overflow). After a week, I remove the filter sock (actually just cut-off the bottom so it would muffle the noise and splashing) from the overflow so I knew the skimmer was getting some material. Again, no improvement.
That is when I came to this thread for help and advice!
In a nutshell my understanding is the air/water line is set too high. When the system "˜burps' (which I believe skimmers do), it pushes water instead of foam, hence the overflow. To break in a skimmer, one sets the waterline low, and lets the foam head develop. I understand this can take as little as an hour to up to a week.
With reeftivo's help, I gone through the steps that work 95% (or 99, even 99.9%?) of the time, but the skimmer still is not working as expected. I've been able to collect a good amount of solid gunk, coating the inside of my collection cup, but no skimate (see picture in post 419). Having looked at videos others have posted and how mine looks, I've come to the conclusion that I am not developing the expected fine foam head above the waterline in the skimmer. I see how this is easily observed in other skimmers, but I have trouble seeing the same in mine. I have only large bubbles breaking about ¼" above the top of the water, and no foam building to indicate the skimmer is breaking in.
This is where I currently stand. After running 4 plus months, not there yet! In a nutshell this is the background, and my next post summarizes some tests I did to try to figure why I alone seem to be having problems with the CO-1!
Boy, if you read this far, I appreciate you taking the time to read! I know it is long-winded, but I hope it gives you the background of what has been a frustrating problem.
Attachments
My last post gives a background of my issue. Based on feedback, I see three possible causes:
1. Defective Skimmer "“ Not likely. Based on posted videos, and consensus is that it looks just like a skimmer should that needs to be broken in. When I look at MedRed's video, mine looks identical up to the collar where the cup attaches. I'm sure the experts here would know if something didn't look right.
(These two ideas are from MedRed, and seem to make sense)
2. Not enough nutrients to create a good head "“ I know I have solids present, based on my experience with what I was collecting in the filter sock, as well as the stuff that has coated my collection cup. However, I understand that the skimmer works on dissolved stuff, and the solids usually get carried along for the ride. I guess I could be a victim of my tank husbandry (careful not to overfeed) with the LR and sand handling the dissolved matter? I think this is unlikely, as I would expect some foam to form above the waterline, even if it doesn't build enough to actually rise to where it dumps in the collection cup. Problem is, as a hobbyist, I'm not aware of an easy way to measure dissolved nutrients.
3. Something breaking the surface tension "“ Since I use RODI to make up my top-off and change water, and I've been careful to use only aquarium specific or food safe plastic rinsed with vinegar for anything used in my system this seems unusual. The only exceptions to this rule are the egg crate (from Home Depot) and the plastic tub serving as a baffle. I'm not aware of people having issues with egg crate and both the egg crate and tub were added after I was having problems. I know there are anti-foaming chemicals out there, but I don't understand how they would get in my system. However, maybe this was something I could test for?
Test 1
I took equal amounts of tap water, freshly made salt water, and tank water. I added the same very small amount of dish liquid detergent to each, shook them up, and let them settled. After 5 minutes, this is what I had (tap water on left, tank water in middle, new saltwater on right):
http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=278040&stc=1&d=1400345252
The tank water and new salt water both had foam remaining, so my conclusion was there was no major problem that wouldn't allow foam to form.
Test 2
I tried to mimic how a skimmer works. I partially filled two empty juice containers with new portions of tank water and fresh made salt water and added an air stone. They bubbled, but neither one was producing any foam. To simulate a bio-load I added about an ounce of milk. I got instant foam, and after 15 minutes this is what the fresh salt water with milk looked like:
I did the same with the tank water. I got instant foaming when I added the same amount of milk:
However, after 15 minutes (unlike the fresh saltwater) all the foam was gone!
This seemed like an "˜ah ha!' moment! Something in the tank water was affecting the ability to maintain foam. However, I know that some juice containers have a slippery coating on the inside, and to make sure all things were equal, I decided to rinse out each container with tap water, and repeat the test switching the containers (e.g. run the fresh salt water test in the container I first used for tank water). I took a new portion of fresh salt water, added milk, and got instant foaming. (I admit I neglected to run the test for 15 minutes to see if I still had foam at this time.)
So at this point I thought that I had confirmed the problem was my tank water. Just for #$%&#! and giggles, I tested the tank water in the bottle I had used for the fresh salt water the first time. Just as the first time around, this is the instant foaming I saw the first time when adding the milk.
I expected a repeat of the first time around, where the ability to develop a foam disappeared. However, this is what I had after 10 minutes, and still 2 hours later!
At first this didn't seem to make any sense! I welcome your opinion, but as I thought about it, maybe there is an explanation?
At least I have experience drinking milk! If you drink a glass of milk, there is a cloudy residue coating the glass. Is doesn't always easily rinse off with just plain water, and sometimes you need soap to completely clean the glass. Could this be an explanation? My theory is that when I ran the tank water the first time, something in the water didn't allow this coating to develop (same as what is happening in the real skimmer). The second time, the coating was there from when I had run the fresh salt water and didn't eliminate when I rinsed the bottle out with tap water.
Does this make sense? Too much information? Looking for people's input. Seems strange, but I'm thinking of setting up my skimmer in a 5 gallon bucket and running with a fresh salt water/milk solution to develop a coating inside my skimmer. Stupid idea? Am I totally off base? Any other suggestions? Thanks for taking the time to read through all this.
MedRed
Active member
I feel for you, Andy! 2 of my 4 skimmers didn't work well for me. It's been a 4 year journey to find the right skimmer.
You should have a nice slime coating in your skimmer by now unless something was killing the bacteria that comprise it. Could there be some residue of something in the container you use to top off? Do you have one of those automated air fresheners? If you lived in LA, I'd love to set it up in my tank and see if there was a difference in operation vs my CO-1.
I'm stumped at this point.
Also, the easy way to clean filter socks? accumulate a bunch of them and toss them inside out in the washing machine with bleach. Run an extra rinse cycle, pull them right side in, let them air dry.
You should have a nice slime coating in your skimmer by now unless something was killing the bacteria that comprise it. Could there be some residue of something in the container you use to top off? Do you have one of those automated air fresheners? If you lived in LA, I'd love to set it up in my tank and see if there was a difference in operation vs my CO-1.
I'm stumped at this point.
Also, the easy way to clean filter socks? accumulate a bunch of them and toss them inside out in the washing machine with bleach. Run an extra rinse cycle, pull them right side in, let them air dry.
That's what is frustrating. I use empty 1 gallon milk jugs for transferring my RODI for top off. I use a 5 gallon food safe pail for mixing water changes, and pump directly out of the bucket into my tank. I think I have a healthy ecosystem, including lots of pods and inverts, so I don't think I have anything toxic. I would think my LR would not function well if there was something in the water killing bacteria, but I've never had an ammonia or nitrite spike. Don't have an automatic air freshener.
What do you think of my 'skimmer in a bucket of milk' idea? Crazy? I am at the point I'm willing to try anything!
reeftivo
Skim junkie
Andy,
This may be a stretch but do you have a good LFS around or friend that has a salt water system?
If you have a good relationship with an LFS or know of a friend, you may be able to try running your skimmer on an established system. A friend may be less likely because they may have to take their skimmer off line. An LFS should have closed loop systems and several sumps you may be able to drop it into.
Another option you may want to consider is to seed it (make sure the stand pipe is opened up) and see how long it holds the foam head. Your milk test kind of works the same way but without the lasting results.
Seeding it would entail getting hold of a little concentrated skimmate from a skimmer running on an established system. An LFS selling salt water tropicals also should have such skimmate. I'm not suggesting polluting your tank since only a few drops down the neck of the skimmer will be enough to stimulate the bubble zones. The skimmer will immediately begin to pull & congeal the drops of skim into a foam. I've been using this technique for years on stubborn skimmers (I've had a few!) and it's worked for me.
This may be a stretch but do you have a good LFS around or friend that has a salt water system?
If you have a good relationship with an LFS or know of a friend, you may be able to try running your skimmer on an established system. A friend may be less likely because they may have to take their skimmer off line. An LFS should have closed loop systems and several sumps you may be able to drop it into.
Another option you may want to consider is to seed it (make sure the stand pipe is opened up) and see how long it holds the foam head. Your milk test kind of works the same way but without the lasting results.
Seeding it would entail getting hold of a little concentrated skimmate from a skimmer running on an established system. An LFS selling salt water tropicals also should have such skimmate. I'm not suggesting polluting your tank since only a few drops down the neck of the skimmer will be enough to stimulate the bubble zones. The skimmer will immediately begin to pull & congeal the drops of skim into a foam. I've been using this technique for years on stubborn skimmers (I've had a few!) and it's worked for me.
Last edited:
ReefPharmer
Active member
i set up several skimmers using reef crystals and did not have issues. I currently use regular IO and the skimmer that i am replacing works well except for the pump (atman pump is junk)
SoFloReefer
New member
One day of skimming so far and it is pulling dark nasty gunk out of the water. It is skimming faster also.
reeftivo
Skim junkie
Basic IO here too. Formerly used ESV with good results too.
reeftivo
Skim junkie
Oh No!
I did the same thing on the kitchen counter right when my wife walked into the kitchen to fix up something to eat. Bad timing & NOT a good day!!!
Don't worry. The way yours is progressing I'm sure you will have a good cupful in only a few days.
This is exactly 3 days of skim with the bubble break line set at 3/4 inch below the cup collar. I will move it up a fraction.
This is on 200 litres of water, this setup BB tank 5 smallish fish. No Filter sock. I have been feeding my own frozen mix reasonably heavily twice a day and a pinch of flake once in the morning.
This is on 200 litres of water, this setup BB tank 5 smallish fish. No Filter sock. I have been feeding my own frozen mix reasonably heavily twice a day and a pinch of flake once in the morning.
reeftivo
Skim junkie
This is exactly 3 days of skim with the bubble break line set at 3/4 inch below the cup collar. I will move it up a fraction.
This is on 200 litres of water, this setup BB tank 5 smallish fish. No Filter sock. I have been feeding my own frozen mix reasonably heavily twice a day and a pinch of flake once in the morning.
looking really good adtravels!
I think raising it around a 1/4 turn will be about right for you. The A/W line will settle a little bit lower when it is fully broken in.
keep us posted on the progress!!:thumbsup:
Nice tank BTW! Love the bare bottom look!
A point to note, I was getting large micro bubbles that were not acceptable, I studied the skimmer and noticed that some bubbles were leaking between the acrylic tube and the bubble plate. I had not screwed it down tight enough during assembly. I believe that this had a minimal effect on the skimmers performance but we will see, just a point to note.
MedRed
Active member
Last week was tea. This week is coffee. Skimmer is 13 days old with 4 days of skimmate. I would have let it run longer, but the filter sock was overflowing and I didn't want a sock change to cause a skimmer overflow.
<iframe width="960" height="720" src="//www.youtube.com/embed/Ovp9CGHM034" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>
<iframe width="960" height="720" src="//www.youtube.com/embed/Ovp9CGHM034" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>
