Are you prepared for emergencies?

[Tech Diver]

i also stay overweighted so if my buddy decides to go for the surface i can deflate my BC and grab him and slow him down if not stop him.

I understand the logic behind overweighing yourself. However, consider the fact that controlling one's buoyancy requires making continuous adjustments against an inherently unstable system. That is, when you begin to sink or rise you do so at an increasing rate because of the changing volume of gas in your BC. By overweighing yourself you wind up with more air in your BC than you normally would (to counteract the extra weight). So a change in depth affects your BC gas volume by a greater amount resulting in more instability. This extra amount can be fairly significant.

Controlling buoyancy is like balancing a billiard ball on top of a smooth mound; the ball wants to roll off. Lots of gas in your BC makes the mound very steep, while a small amount makes the mound very gentle.

As for pulling your buddy down, the technique I was taught was to grab him from behind, and with your arm across his chest YOU use HIS inflator to control the buoyancy for BOTH of you.

 

[Paul B]

Tech Diver, I have a question for you. Did the PADI course get much easier over the years? My first dive was in Sydney Australia in 1970 and I was PADI certified in 1974. It took ten weeks, three hours a week with half of that in a pool the rest in a classroom and three open water dives in zero visability in NY. We learned medical aspects, decompression, beach diving, boat diving, rescue diving, repetitive dives, dangerous animals and what not. My wife and daughter was certified about 7 years ago in the Caribbean and learned close to nothing in a few hours
Paul

 

[Tech Diver]

Paul,

I don't really know if PADI has relaxed its requirements over the years, but the information you were taught in your PADI OW class is FAR more than I received in mine. Whether that is due to course structure or the quality of the instructor, I am not sure. I have seen an awful lot of dive shops offer an accelerated PADI OW course where you get your certification in just one weekend (I personally do not agree with such fast-track training for one's first certification). I don't want to start bashing PADI but it seems to me that they are more interested in turning a good profit than turning out good divers.

I have had the exact same reaction as Mad Scientist. That is, until I got into the details and rigors of training for technical diving, I never knew just how ill prepared I was through my PADI OW and AOW classes.

Peter

 

[nitroxdiver009]

o inly over weigh my self tho when with a new buddy. once i know him and know how he responds to problems i let up. usuaaly i am neutral with very little air in bc( almost a flick of the inflator is enough. when i am taking picts i tend to do alittle extra weight since it makes it easier to stay still

 

[Paul B]

Peter, my "C" card reads "Basic SCUBA Diver", my wifes care reads "Open water diver" I don't know the difference and apparently PADI does not either because I wrote them on two occasions about it and did not get a response. Her dive charts are just no decompression tables. I have the three charts for decompression and repetitive dives. Her actual class was about 4 hours. I think PADI wants to give you a very basic course then charge you for all the other courses. I guess it's not too dangerous as long as these people know their limitations.
I have never had a terrable emergency while diving except once swimming into a 100 year old ship boiler and having a little trouble getting out (about 6" vis) Once I caught a lobster, the biting kind, we don't have those "sissy" lobster here, and when I went to put it in the bag I noticed the bag with a few lobsters in it were gone. My partner who was tied to me went back for it and I caught another lobster. While I was laying on the bottom on my back waiting for him the lobster grabbed my inflator hose to my BC. With a lobster in both hands I tried to pull him away and of course the hose on the BC came out of the fitting. My buddy came back and with 36 lbs. of weight on I could not swim too good so we had to surface to fix the BC. I did not want to drop my weight belt because we have all kinds of stuff attached to it so I tied my inflatable buoy marker to it, before I dropped it, I inflated the marker and I rode it to the surface and repaired my BC, then I followed the line down and put the weights back on. I know, not that exciting, but here where it's pitch black at 25' in a 1/4" suit it gets tough.
Anyway I got all the lobsters and my weight belt.
Paul

 

[billsreef]

Paul,

I got certified almost 10 years after you, my card reads the same and the duration of the course was the same. Took up most of a summer. The amount of time and drilling in that course makes me wonder about the short day or two courses that here about these days

nitroxdiver009,

Your far better off practicing and refining your buoyancy control and reducing your weight than overweighting for any reason. If you have a buddy going into an out of control ascent, you don't need to be weighted enough to sink them, you just need to be able to slow the ascent to a safe rate. And that just takes some extra drag wich you will be able to supply without the extra lead Also your photography will get better with better control as oposed to extra lead. It just takes practice...and that means more diving

 

[Paul B]

Bill, You probably got certified the same place as me at "Central SCUBA Divers" The course damn near killed me.
Paul

 

[nitroxdiver009]

god i love scuba... my computer busted and dive captin wont let me use his spg on my regulator .... so im not going to go..

I WILL NEVER dive with out my own equptment ( besides he computer which i can do without)
I know my stuff way to well i can almost assemble the gear with my eyes closed.

Only time i will not use my own gear is if i can practice with the new stuff first ( in less then 10 ft)

 

[billsreef]

Bill, You probably got certified the same place as me at "Central SCUBA Divers" The course damn near killed me.
Paul

I was living too far East, still do Got my certification at the old 7 Z's in Flanders. My instructer was former para trooper, drilled us hard but quite well

Heard a scary story from an aquaintance that just got certified. His instructor originally planned on doing their open water dive at Secret Beach out here on the Sound. However the waves were too much, so went to the old Ponquogue Bridge in Shinnecock....and not at slack tide :eek2:

 

[Paul B]

Bill, I never dove there but it does not sound too good. I took my check out dives somewhere near Zachs Bay on the south shore. The instructor had to put his mask against mine to see me and he had to hold my hand to see if I was doing the hand signals. If you want to see your depth guage you have to put it in your mask. Like I said, if you can dive here, you can dive anywhere.
Paul

 

[gregt]

I moved the "gas management" discussion to another thread: http://reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=413441

 

[cabrerad]

Paul,


There is a difference between "Basic Scuba Diver" (PADI Scuba Diver) " and "Open Water Scuba Diver" (PADI Open Water Diver). The PADI Scuba diver allows you dive only under the supervision of a Divemaster, Assistant Instructoror, Instructor, or higher rated professional. The Open Water course is a more comprehensive course. With this certification, one can dive independant from a professional. I am rather surprised this was not made clear in your courses. Regardless, the quality of the course depends very much on the instructor as the content is fairly standard among the major dive organizations. As Tech Diver mentions, you will get more out of the longer courses than the weekend course, especially for the initial cert.

David

 

[Paul B]

David, either you have your courses screwed up or PADI does not know what they are doing. When I was certified in the seventies it was the long 12 week course with everything you could think of including decompression, multiple dives and everything else. My card says "Basic SCUBA Diver. I think that was the only card they had in those days. I have been diving on my own since then off my own boat with my equipment. My wife and daughter had the rediculously short learn nothing course in the Caribbean learning only no decompression diving. Their card says "Open Water Diver". I wrote to PADI about this twice and received no response. Since I do not have to depend on a dive boat or rental gear, I really do not care what it reads. It is just confusing.
Do you have an E mail address for PADI? I will try to ask them again.
Paul

 

[aquamanathome]

I learned to dive in Connecticut and dove around the north east for several years before moving to Florida 14 years ago. I am lucky enough to get to dive year round day and night very often. Of course not everything goes as planed and I have had several "learning" experiances.

Once during a night dive in late November around 11pm I was diving with two friends looking for lobsters. I was alone at the time "this happens often" about 35' deep. There was a nice lobster under a ledge that went deep under the reef. There was about 2' clearance top to bottom between the rocks and it went about 15 or 20 feet in. I was about 2/3rds of the way wiggling in when I relized that I was stuck. I had stired up the sedament and couldn't see that well. I stoped moving and tried to relax as I was close to panic. After I calmed down I was able to unhook my gear and once off I was able to push myself out while draging my gear.

I put my gear on and finished the dive catching a few, but that one got away and left me with a new respect for where I put myself.

 

[cabrerad]

Paul,



I don't have the courses mixed up. The courses I mentioned are the current courses that PADI offers. I did not realize your cert was from 14 years ago. I contacted PADI myself and got the following response from the training department:

Thank you for taking the time to write and for the opportunity to answer your questions.

Prior to standards changes that occurred on September 1, 1986, there were two PADI entry-level certifications: Basic Diver and Open Water Diver. Basic Diver training included most of the performance requirements of Open Water Diver training, but it required only two open-water training dives. This difference meant that some skills, such as emergency swimming ascent and buddy breathing ascent, were not practiced in open water. Because of this, Basic Diver certification came with a restriction requiring the diver and his buddy to dive with an alternate air source. Additionally, Basic Divers are not eligible for most other PADI courses, such as PADI Advanced Open Water Diver, Specialties, etc. as they require a minimum rating of PADI Open Water Diver to enroll.

To upgrade to a PADI Open Water Diver level, the Basic Diver must successfully complete a PADI Scuba Review and the PADI Open Water Diver course training Dives 3 and 4, including performing a controlled emergency swimming ascent. Then submit a PIC for Open Water Diver certification.

The course your wife and daughter took is the initial entry level course that PADI offers that lets them rent equipment and dive without a professional escort (with a 60 foot recommended depth limit). I am not sure how exactly you are defining decompression diving, but the entry level open water courses teach no-stop diving and do not teach staged decompression diving. This type of diving is covered in technical courses. Does that clear things up any?


David

 

[Paul B]

David, thank you, that does clear it up somewhat. I did have only two checkout dives. My wife had one. Anyway, so far I have not had any problems when I dive in far off places. I will be going to Tahiti in a few weeks and I have one more dive to take to get my advanced certification. As I said, I don't need it because I usually dive on my own but I may as well get it in case they give me a hard time. Thanks for the information.
paul

 

[cabrerad]

I am glad I could help out. Your wife should have had 4 checkout dives (plus an optional snorkel) for an Open Water cert, so that sounds a bit odd. Maybe they trained her for a discovery type course and then gave her the full cert? I am glad to hear you are getting the advanced cert, it should keep people from giving you trouble. It sounds like you already have a lot of dives under your belt though, so a your dive log would prove you are experienced. It's a useful cert to get some experience for beginners and some dive operators require it for the more advanced dives. The course could probably have a better name though, as the only way to get "advanced" is to dive a lot "the right way". Anyways, have fun in Tahiti! I am going to the British Virgin Islands next Thursday..you get to see more acros than me

David

 

[Paul B]

David. Have fun in the Virgin Islands. I have never dove in Tahiti, the only Pacific dives I did was in Australia and Hawaii. I was certified in 1978, 26 years ago not 14. When these dive shops in the Caribbean see my C card they just tell me they never saw a card like that before. I am sure it has been redesigned a few times since then. There were not many people diving then which was great because all the ship wrecks here in NY had all the stuff on them that they went down with. It does not even pay to visit them anymore because they are picked clean.
I did the dives for the advanced certification somewhere in the Caribbean off the Windstar ship. It was too rough the last day and we couldn't dive so I will get it in Tahiti. I am going on the same ship.
Paul

 

[Paul B]

David one more thing. I just remembered. You said that my course should have been no staged decompression dives but this is not the case. My certification taught multiple decompression with staged stops at various depths and repetitive decompression dives. Maybe in 1978 the criteria was different than now. I have no restrictions. My wife can only do no decompression dives. Her charts do not allow for any decompression. Mine do.
How did you contact PADI? Or could you ask them that for me?
Now it's a quest.
Paul.

 

[Mad Scientist]

Deep air and outdated tables

Deep air and outdated tables

[. My certification taught multiple decompression with staged stops at various depths and repetitive decompression dives. Maybe in 1978 the criteria was different than now. I have no restrictions. My wife can only do no decompression dives. Her charts do not allow for any decompression. Mine do.
How did you contact PADI? Or could you ask them that for me?
Now it's a quest.
Paul. [/B][/QUOTE]

It was just with air right? Most of the time when you use the term "stages stops" it means that you are changing gases at the stop.