ATI Powermodule Hybrid Club

[Oliver P.]

Hello,

regarding T5-bulbs:

I guess it is no secret that KZ and ATI bulbs are coming from the same manufacture and production line (could often read this here) . So there is no big difference in Quality.

But our Blue plus is a modified version of the "standard" blue (BAM Blue) that is normally used in blue fluorescent tubes. We made this smal modification appr. 5 year ago.
The main difference is that our blue plus has a maximumin @453nm. A normal blue bulb has a maximum at 450 nm. So there is just a smal difference of 3nm in wavelenght. But we had good reasons to do this. The reasons are more biologically.

If you look at the Absorptionsspectrum of the symbiotic algae (Zooxanthella in vivo) you know which light is the most (photosynthetic) useful light for corals.

The graph shows the Absorbtionsspectrum of the Chlorophyll-Peridinin-Chlorophyll (PCP) that can be found in the Zooxanthella in vivo.

There is a maxima at 435nm (coming from Chlorophyll) and 475nm (coming from Peridinin). The interesting thing is that the maxima at 470nm is higher (most useful light) than the maxima @ 435nm.

But what does this mean for us ?
It simply means that a light source with a wavelenght of 470nm has the most photosynthtic useful light for corals. Of course, a light source with a maxiam at 450nm is very useful, too. but if you look at the absorbtionsspectrum in the graph) you can see that the range of 455-470nm is a little bit better. This is the reason why we decided to modify our Blue plus to this side (453nm instead of 450). We did this in order to give our corals just a little bit more useful light. It is not a big difference, but there defently is a smal difference.

We are designing T5-tubes for corals for more than 14 years now, and we have good reasons why we do what we do. I just want to jump in here to explain this a little bit and I hope you understand what I want to say.
We are doing light for corals. Not just for the human eye... please keep this in mind....

regards,
Oliver

 

[MSHUR]

Thanks from clarification Oliver .
Can you please, compare AtI Coral + with KZ New Gen as far as PAR . I have read in this forum that KZ New Gen have more PAR and brighter . Question is do we need more PAR?

 

[ZON]

For me ati special is similar to kz coral light.. New gen is very very more bluish like coral plus and aquascience duo.. Coral plus is pinkish a little then other 2 tubes that are identical at human eyes. Ultra royal blue from fm are similar to kz superblue but owner of fm tell me and give me the spectrum chart and is more deeper peaks on actinics wavelenghts around 400/420

 

[ZON]

ATI Powermodule Hybrid Club

Also i quote oliver ..right color for us is not same as corals ..i try many combos in those years..and remember a thing : normally we have so many different corals in our tanks..some pocilloporas or humilis that live in 40 cm of water in red sea where the light is yellowish like ge6500 tube only ..instead the deepwater or australian corals like strawberry sc live in 20/30 mt deep where light is totally blue.. And we put all togheter in 5 glasses in 60/70 cm deep..we must find a middle way to have a good result for every kind of animals

 

[MSHUR]

ATI Powermodule Hybrid Club

Hi Zon
Currently i run following combo
Front to back
B*
Kz fp
B*
C*
LED. Run at 50%
C*+
B+
FP
B*+
seems to pinkish to me and i cant color up some corals but overall i am pleased with coral coloration
I was thinking to switch over to
Kz blue
Kz blue
Kz new g
Kz FP

Led

Kz blue
Kz new g
Kz blue
Kz blue

What you think? Too blue ?

 

[Oliver P.]

Hello again,

Can you please, compare AtI Coral + with KZ New Gen as far as PAR

Sorry my friend. As manufacture I will not make comments about this. I just jumped in here in order to explain that there are good reasons that a deeper blue is not automatically the "better" blue for corals (see graph). Also, I want to give you the information that our blue is only 3nm longer in wavelengts than comparable T5 bulbs. This is very very hard to see with human eyes. This is the reason why Mo wrote:
"There is not much between the blue tubes from each company. They looked identical to me."
Also please think about the colors of LEDs. I guess we all love the color of royal blue. But you cant just use royal blue to illuminate corals. If we would do that we would only cover appr. 50% of the spectrum the corals need. Corlas need a broad or wide banded Blue (see graph). At best the emmisionsspectrum of a blue light source hits exactly the absorbtionsspectrum of the zooxanthellae (see graph). Thats why most companies use two different kind of blue LEDs. Royal blue (max @450nm) and blue (max. @470nm). Only in this way (combination of two different blue Leds)) we can generate a wide banded blue like corals knows this from mother nature and only in this way we are able to give our corals what they really need. So deep blue is not the only way to go...even though it may look better for some people...

Question is do we need more PAR?

I think you have our Hybrid, right ? Our Hybrid is able to give most corals much more light than they really need. For owners of a Hybrid PAR is no problem at all. Think about the extra power your LEDs can give you.

If I look at your bulb compination I am not surprised that it looks a liitle bit too pinkisch. The Coral plus already have a liitle bit more red and in combination with a purple bulb you have slightly too much red (IMMO).
We recommand max. 1 purple bulb per fixture. A good and proven combination is for example:
B+,C+,B+,P+ LED B+,C+,B+,C+
Also, you can do some finetuning with your Leds.

Also i quote oliver ..right color for us is not same as corals ..i try many combos in those years..and remember a thing : normally we have so many different corals in our tanks..some pocilloporas or humilis that live in 40 cm of water in red sea where the light is yellowish like ge6500 tube only ..instead the deepwater or australian corals like strawberry sc live in 20/30 mt deep where light is totally blue.. And we put all togheter in 5 glasses in 60/70 cm deep..we must find a middle way to have a good result for every kind of animals

Exactly, that is the reason why it is always (more or less) a compromise. But once corals has adapted it is much easier for us.

regards,
Oliver

 

[MSHUR]

ATI Powermodule Hybrid Club

Oliver
I appreciate your comment and recommendations in this regards.
I came back from using 400w Radiums for 13 years of reefing and always able to achieve great colors. Tried Mitras LEDs for about 7-8 month and gave up to ATI Hybrid so for me is very important to achieve superior colors vs growth .
So far i am very happy with Hybrid just trying to tweak some colors
Right now LeDs set up at. 50% , dont wanna burn my corals like i did in past with LEDs
Just trying to figure out best T5s combo for SPS corals

Thank you again from jump in

Mike

 

[ZON]

ATI Powermodule Hybrid Club

Mshur i put only 1 pink t5 for fixture like oliver said..i try 2 and 3 sometimes but is not good at all with some corals that hate red spectrum..

I suggest use 4 coral + & 4 blue plus if you like crispy bluish white light and 5 blue+ 1 purple+ 2 ab special if you like more deep water.. Led can be adjust for fine tuning look ..i use now 100% blue and rb 0% reds and 20 % white but i add another ati fixture on the tank

 

[Oliver P.]

Oliver
I appreciate your comment and recommendations in this regards.
I came back from using 400w Radiums for 13 years of reefing and always able to achieve great colors. Tried Mitras LEDs for about 7-8 month and gave up to ATI Hybrid so for me is very important to achieve superior colors vs growth .
So far i am very happy with Hybrid just trying to tweak some colors
Right now LeDs set up at. 50% , dont wanna burn my corals like i did in past with LEDs
Just trying to figure out best T5s combo for SPS corals

Thank you again from jump in

Mike

You are welcome. I think you just need to reduce the number of purple T5-bulbs. Red is more ot less useless for corals. If you convert a part of the red light in blue light than you automatically converet useless light in useful light. I guess that some last corals will say "Thank you Sir". I always tell my customers: Please use as much useful light for your corals as possible (B+, and C+) and not more "cosmetic-light" (P+ and actinic) than needed. Think about the bulb combination I have mentioned and maybe give it a try. I konw for 100% that this combination works very well for SPS-corals.
Also, you can increase the blue and royal blue channel of your LEDs. I know that a burnt child dreads the fire. But blue and royalblue is not dangerous to corals. Too much white and especially red is dangerous. So blue at 80-100%, royalblue at 80-100%, white at 40-50% and red at max. 20% is a good basis for adapted corals.

regards
Oliver

 

[Big E]

From my experience you're going to color up Acropora best with coral+ and blue+ alternating. They cover the complete area in spectrum that pigments and chromo proteins need to fluoresce at their best. They also do an insane job of coloring up chalices at low par levels of under 100.

More pink/purple is only going to color the water to a pinkish overtone. I wouldn't run any purple bulbs.

I would prefer to straddle the LEDs with coral+ and work your way out.

Use the LEDs as supplementation to give the effect you want to be pleasing to your eyes. Some people prefer a more blue type tint.

The coral+ bulbs will make your pinks and reds more vibrant. When I'm speaking of any colors it's colors that are actually in the corals not coloring the water.

I believe ATI runs a 4 to 1 ratio of blues to white diodes in each cluster, so you could probably run them at the same percentages. You want the whites to be anywhere from 25-30% of your blues. Other fixtures configure too many white LEDs and your percentages would vary to a more skewed ratio. For your eyes though, it would be okay to lean more blue to give that extra pop.

In essence running more blue in the LEDs with the coral+/blue+ combo will give you similar to that extra pop that VHOs would give with 400w radiums.

One thing to keep in mind also is that excessive 450nm from LEDs will cause orange and green to dominate and the other colors suffer. One example I'd give is how Rainbow Acans will turn orange or lose a lot of their rainbow look under blue dominate LED fixtures. LPS corals are more affected by this than Sps.

 

[blackgate]

So if I am running 2 b+, 1 c+, and 1 p+, I should change it to 2 b+ and 2 C+? Right now I am not happy with the pinkish tone to my tank and I really want to make a change in bulbs. Would this change be a bit more suitable? I just don't want to mess up my corals and anemone. Also, what height above water line are you guys running your hybrid? Thank you very much for any info as I love this fixture, just not happy with my current bulb configuration.

 

[Patrick Cox]

You are welcome. I think you just need to reduce the number of purple T5-bulbs. Red is more ot less useless for corals. If you convert a part of the red light in blue light than you automatically converet useless light in useful light. I guess that some last corals will say "Thank you Sir". I always tell my customers: Please use as much useful light for your corals as possible (B+, and C+) and not more "cosmetic-light" (P+ and actinic) than needed. Think about the bulb combination I have mentioned and maybe give it a try. I konw for 100% that this combination works very well for SPS-corals.
Also, you can increase the blue and royal blue channel of your LEDs. I know that a burnt child dreads the fire. But blue and royalblue is not dangerous to corals. Too much white and especially red is dangerous. So blue at 80-100%, royalblue at 80-100%, white at 40-50% and red at max. 20% is a good basis for adapted corals.

regards
Oliver

Thanks for your comments here Oliver. I do have a couple of questions regarding your recommendations. I just purchased a 4 tube fixture for an SPS tank. I am running 2 B+, 1 C+, 1 P+. Is this OK or should I switch the P+ for a different bulb?

And secondly, can you explain the difference in adjusting the % figure (vertical access) on the graph vs adjusting the individual color output levels? My experience is that just lowering the % does not reduce PAR so much but lowering the color sliders below 255 does. How should one approach adjusting LED levels? I understand that changing the ratio of the LED levels will change the color balance but my question is more about total output / PAR of LEDs. I just switched from an ATI 6x39w fixture and I am trying to slowly acclimate my corals to LED light.

Thanks!

 

[Zacktosterone]

Thanks for your comments here Oliver. I do have a couple of questions regarding your recommendations. I just purchased a 4 tube fixture for an SPS tank. I am running 2 B+, 1 C+, 1 P+. Is this OK or should I switch the P+ for a different bulb?

And secondly, can you explain the difference in adjusting the % figure (vertical access) on the graph vs adjusting the individual color output levels? My experience is that just lowering the % does not reduce PAR so much but lowering the color sliders below 255 does. How should one approach adjusting LED levels? I understand that changing the ratio of the LED levels will change the color balance but my question is more about total output / PAR of LEDs. I just switched from an ATI 6x39w fixture and I am trying to slowly acclimate my corals to LED light.

Thanks!

I would like to know this as well

 

[MSHUR]

Thank you fellas!

Big E
Have you try different brands or only ATI?
I am ready to place an order but wondering if i should try KZ and Guessemann

Thanks

 

[Oliver P.]

@BigE
1+, your practical experience is pretty much the same we have.

@blackgate
The P+ is not the first choice for a 4 bulb Fixture. It is more an option for 8 bulb fixtures. I would defently go with 2 C+ and 2 B+. With this combination you dont have a pinkish tone in your tank and it is a very proven combination as well.

@Patrick
You can switch the P+ for a C+ (see above).

You can see the total output of each LED-Channel (B, RB,W, R) and each LED-Cluster (LED 1, LED 2, etc) in the blue Display (Controler). 255 is maximum and 0 is minimum. The Display always shows the current status of everything (including temperature of the LED-boards).

If you want to create your own LED color it is important that minimum one color slider is at 100% (like the preset colors "Blue plus", "Coral plus" etc.).
So, changing the ratio of the LED levels will change the color balance but minimum one color-slider has to be at 100% (255).

So, the first step is to create your own color at 100% (minimum one slider at 100%) and save it. The second step is to dimm this color in % (y-axis) at a level you want it. Our Programm is an itelligent programm that can hold the color (ratio of LED) in different intensities. So dont care about the single LEDs. With the Mode "Day preview" you can check your complete programming.

I think sahin made a nice video here:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lh6f4JA9UUI

regards
Oliver

 

[CoopsReef]

@Big E

If you wouldn't mind what does your led program look like? And what would you recommend for the 8 bulb fixture for 90% sps 10%LPS? I currently run the leds more blue and my t5 combo is as follows
B+
B+
B+
C+
Led Led Led
B+
C+
B+
B+
Thanks for your help.

 

[blackgate]

What heights above water line you guys running for sps tanks?

 

[MSHUR]

I got it at 12" from the water line

 

[blackgate]

Im running at 6" but it still seems my magnifica is stretching for light. I just wanted to get some input from others. It's why I absolutely love RC!!

 

[MSHUR]

Wow 6", i think i would burn my corals. Unfortunately, 60" unit is not dimmable . So T5' run at full power