automatic water change

automatic water change

My setup is almost done will post videos when finished but here's a teaser
hajunyze.jpg
pumps missing in that picture but it it's mounted right next to left most ro containers. The picture was taken b4 I mounted it but it will take fresh salt water from right most 55gal tank to the tank in the living room and dump the old saltwater down the laundry sink drain
 
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My setup is almost done will post videos when finished but here's a teaser
hajunyze.jpg
pumps missing in that picture but it it's mounted right next to left most ro containers. The picture was taken b4 I mounted it but it will take fresh salt water from right most 55gal tank to the tank in the living room and dump the old saltwater down the laundry sink drain

Wow! I'm jelous, that looks so sterile and almost clinical. where's the mess that should accompany such a nice setup, your way too clean. :lolspin:

don't judge on the pics of my system progress to follow..............
 
wow! I'm jelous, that looks so sterile and almost clinical. Where's the mess that should accompany such a nice setup, your way too clean. :lolspin:



Don't judge on the pics of my system progress to follow..............


+1000
 
Steve- Dr.Thompson is a very secretive guy. Youll never see his face. Even when he comes to meetings he wears a paper bag over his head. :lol:

Well way back in the beginning of this or the other thread he invited me to hid house to see his setup. Was he going to wear a bag over his head if I went to his place?
 
Fittings for Cole-Parmer 7016 Pump Heads

Fittings for Cole-Parmer 7016 Pump Heads

For Inevo and others using these pump heads the fittings you'll need to do it proper and connect to standard RO/DI tubing for your long runs(per recommendation from Cole-Parmer are(I found them way cheaper at US Plastics:

6 of these:
http://www.usplastic.com/catalog/item.aspx?itemid=28545

and 6 of these:
http://www.usplastic.com/catalog/item.aspx?itemid=83363

Thread them together with some soft set thread seal, if you want, add zip tie, and your good to go!!!!!!!!

I looked everywhere for an all in one but It gets to be slim pickings below 1/4" barb fittings, even direct from Cole-Parmer.......
 

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Wow! I'm jelous, that looks so sterile and almost clinical. where's the mess that should accompany such a nice setup, your way too clean. :lolspin:



don't judge on the pics of my system progress to follow..............


Thanks for the kind words. If you know anything about me I'm anything but organized and usually have a mess going on but this beings first house I'm trying to turn a new leaf and be more organized lol.
 
Soon to be up and running. All wired up to run while I'm finishing my "fancy" AWC and salt mixing station, I just need to re-calibrate the flow now that I have the motor speed control dialing it down to where I can't here it while I'm sleeping. (I think it will ultimately live nearer the basement floor on my AWC cart so I can't here it so much but this seems to work, I just need to wait for another 30 minutes while it runs at slow speed (around 50% duty cycle) to see how much water it pumps and adjust the run time accordingly. (interestingly it is still very loud running on 12 compared to roughly 50% duty cycle on the motor control with 24volts, so possibly the dial is not a linear speed change? Who cares it works!

Pics of the ugly but compact setup including float connection (two pink bullet connectors) that will turn it off when the Saltwater runs out. Relay, temporarily housed in a pill bottle, Motor control just hanging out for now, and PSU all zip tied together. System controlled by the good old 7 day lamp timer to run 4 or so times per day and change out 1 gallon (though I will need to test just how slow it will start up, maybe it can just always run very slowly or on/off every half hour, not that there is much evidence that that would be better.......)

Second and Third Pic is of the temporary, 5 gallon bucket low level float setup just hooked over the side of the bucket.

Info on fancier setup to follow, just not done yet.
 

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Thanks for the kind words. If you know anything about me I'm anything but organized and usually have a mess going on but this beings first house I'm trying to turn a new leaf and be more organized lol.

I hear you, that's what I though when I moved into this place, but 6 years later, you get the idea, and those pics and following are the "laundry room" portion of my basement that is supposed to be clean and free of my projects and mess.......

......but who has time to mop and clean a basement :lolspin:
 
The only stuff of mine thats neat is under my stand and it probably looks like a ratnest to others. The basement work area is horrible. The mixing station is pretty neat but not pretty.
 
The base for my fancy new setup, almost finished, just waiting for the finish to dry. Two brute cans will sit on top, similar setup to what Dread posted earlier. Cabinet keeps everything off the floor should my basement ever get water in it again, and I can fit three salt boxes and all my other salt mixing junk neatly underneath out of site. Plus its on wheels so I can move it if needed as I'm not positive where in the basement it will ultimately live long term.

Everything will be fully automated with the flip of a switch and operated by a timer. More pics to follow in the next weeks as I finish the build. I'll post up my initial wiring diagram for the control in a bit. I think I have it pretty well figured out now, just took an extra float valve and a few more odds 'n ends' to make it all look pretty for the final build (I hate rats nest wiring if I can help it...)
 

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Here is the plan for my control system, please critique if you see issues, the electrical will be the last part I assemble after all the plumbing, probably in a week or so.

Basic Idea is there are three circuits (each colorcoded on one diagram) One controls autofill of the RO/DI container. I'm not using it for top of at present (just direct pressure from my 6galon RO/DI pressure tank via Spectra pure switch) but eventually I will use this for ATO as well to get more pure water by running the RO/DI longer.

Another part controls the AWC pump, same stuff as in previous picture just integrated with the whole setup now.

Last part controls the Mag 5 pump for transfering water from ATO container to SW container, Pumping anywhere else I want in the house via valves on the plumbing, and for intermittent mixing whenever the AWC system is running. This will be pluged into a relay controled outlet along with a air pump to aerate both containers though only the SW container will get the pump mixing it. I ended up adding a 5th float to the setup so I can flip the system on via switch and timer to transfer water from ATO container to SW bin and not worry about running dry or overfilling SW container. (I like systems that allow me to get distracted and come back later to finish what I started)

A single 3 pole double throw switch will allow me to change functions, disabling the AWC while mixing salt.

(eventually all housed in a neat box with GFCI outlet and a power cord to plug in wherever I have it sitting at the time)

I whipped these pdfs up at lunch so hopefully it is clear to everyone what I'm planning. not the best diagrams in the world but all I could manage in an hour with plain old autocad. I'd share the DWG but it's too big to upload here.

Edit: I just realized I didn't print a pdf of the switch wiring blow up so that part might be a little unclear. I'll post it tomorrow as I don't have 2014 AutoCAD at home.
 

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Dread, I am eternaly grateful you pointed me to these motor controlers. I had no idea a pwm controller could make a motor run so darn slow and silent!

I only wish I had a camera with accruate microphone, but alas, my canon SD400 from back in ~2006 pics up all sorts of horible static and has it's gain WAY, WAY, WAY, WAY, WAY too high!!!!!

I recommenced turning your volume down to nothing before playing this. At the end you can very loudly hear the slow ping of each drop of water from the pumps output tubing. To my ears in person, all I can hear is the slow whir of my furnace blower and an almost in audible gurgle from the skimmer of my frag tank 30 feet away at the other end of my basement.

This is at the slowest setting of this particular controller and it reliably starts up from a cold start at a very slow drip and almost dead silent! all I can hear with my ear near the pump is a quiet click as the head turns and the very low whirring of the gears in the motors gear box.........

I'ts putting out roughly 6.22 mL/min (+/- 3%) at this setting per head. Heck I could easily use this setup as a three part dosing pump....... WHoo!, Whoo!
(glad I bought more than one when they were cheap :) )

<iframe width="420" height="315" src="//www.youtube.com/embed/_1K4z-TIs58" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>
 
automatic water change

Not bad thats 2.3 gallons a day running non stop

12.5 minutes every half hour for a 1/2g per day WC. That would be 10% of a 120 or 20% on a 60 per month. Not bad for super quiet.
 
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I know right. I really am debating running it slower now but like the idea of slightly more efficient water changes if it runs more all at once say 4 times per day every 6 hours now that it can be quiet enough I can sleep through it. I know we are talking only a few percent difference on the average but every little bit helps.
 
automatic water change

Your still doing them continuous 4 times a day or 24 times a day. I dont think it changes the % that much and even once per hour gives more time for dilution, but the rate that we are changing water. If you did 1g in one shot on fast its still an hour. Your sump is turning over at least a few times in that hour.

I'm curious now though does someone have the formula and confirm the differences of like once per day, 4 times per day or hourly? Being able to schedule it when and how long I want, I'd like to know if theres any significant difference.
 
a little off topic but on the humorous side (at least to my brain presently :beer: ) is that the small dosing pumps from way back that I posted which came in the rack of 24. the two faster blue head pumps actually pump faster and are louder than this three head pump! Crazy something so small can be so darn loud! Though I doubt they will be able to run continuously anywhere near as long. :lolspin: !!!!!!

The rest of the clear pumps are dead silent and turn at a minuscule barely noticeable crawl dosing ~1.4 powered by only a 5 volt cell charger........

Speaking of, sorry sitll off topic, @ Dread, did you get those pumps i sent you running? We need to start working on that "other" thread.........
 
Your still doing them continuous 4 times a day or 24 times a day. I dont think it changes the % that much and even once per hour gives more time for dilution, but the rate that we are changing water. If you did 1g in one shot on fast its still an hour. Your sump is turning over at least a few times in that hour.

I'm curious now though does someone have the formula and confirm the differences of like once per day, 4 times per day or hourly? Being able to schedule it when and how long I want, I'd like to know if there's any significant difference.

I don't recall the math but it is only a few percent differnence, I believe it was posted earlier in the thread......but I read that many weeks ago, LOL!

Thus I don't really think it matters.

I can only go up to 7 times per day with my timer based setup but a diferent timer could do better. Continuous for my setup would be great but way more than the 5 gallons a week I realy would like to change out. I did hear that it is best to break up the run time of these motors even though they are rated for continuous duty you greatly extend the life by doing on/off with like 30 min on and 30min off. So I figure I will limit things to no more than 15min on at any one time and work back from there for now. Since I have it quiet enough I cant hear now......
 
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I've seen the formula, and I know its a few percent but thats usually comparing continuous vs. non-continuous. I guess I'll look it up later and see if I can find it.
 
Nice setup zacths. The post that lnevo was referring too about the difference between continuous water changes is on post # 42 http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showpost.php?p=22100370&postcount=42 and 43 http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showpost.php?p=22100382&postcount=43 by DRThompson.

Here is a quote of post #43.

From the article:

How to Perform Water Changes

There are many ways to perform water changes, and some of these are outlined below.

Large batch water changes: These changes are what most aquarists think of as water changes - remove some aquarium water and replace it with new water. Reef aquarists often talk of changing 10-30% per month this way. These changes can be completely manual, using buckets and siphons. They can also be partially or almost completely automated. Some systems allow aquarists to open and close appropriate valves (or turn on appropriate pumps), and pumps take care of the actual removal and addition of water.

In doing batch changes, aquarists should consider the changes in the water parameters that will result, and be sure they do not excessively stress organisms. Differences in salinity and temperature are most likely to be significant, and the larger the change, the more stressful it can become for the aquarium's inhabitants. If there is substantial ammonia in the new water, as there may be in artificial salt water or possibly in natural seawater that has been stored for a while, that can also be stressful. Obviously, any organisms that become exposed to the air can also be greatly stressed. Differences in other water parameters are less likely, in my opinion, to be particularly stressful during water changes, with the possible exception of certain trace elements which may be more toxic in raw artificial seawater when not bound to organics than after they have had a chance to become bound in the aquarium or in natural seawater. The normally encountered differences in calcium, magnesium, alkalinity, nitrate, phosphate, silica, pH, etc., are unlikely to unduly stress organisms during water changes up to 30-50% using natural seawater or aerated artificial seawater, in my opinion.

Small batch water changes: These changes are similar to the large changes above, but are much smaller and are done more frequently. Daily changes of 0.25% to 2%, for example, can be used. One could also do a series of consecutive small water changes on the same day. This method ensures that organisms near the top of the aquarium are not exposed to the air, and that water parameter shifts are less sudden. These types of changes can be done in a variety of ways, such as by removing water via a skimmer and replacing it once a day, or by simply taking out an amount (such as a half gallon) and replacing it once a day (automatically or manually). While lots of smaller changes (say, 30 changes of 1% each) are slightly less efficient than one larger one (30% in a single batch), the difference is small (30 changes of 1% each exactly matches one 26% batch water change), and consequently other factors of convenience or stress on organisms may be more important.

In doing batch water changes of 2% or less, aquarists need not particularly worry about the changes in the water parameters that will result, as long as the new water is of reasonable quality. For example, a 1% change with new water at 55°F from a basement reservoir will change the aquarium temperature only from 81°F to 80.74°F. Differences in salinity are also unlikely to be significant.

Continuous water changes: Continuous water changes, despite their name, are not necessarily performed every minute of every day. The distinguishing feature of these changes is that water is added at the same time that it is removed. The actual rate of addition can be high or low. Reef aquarists (myself included) most often perform these types of water changes with two matched pumps, one that removes the old water and one that adds the new water. Often these pumps are part of the same mechanism (such as two sets of tubing on a peristaltic pump or two heads on a diaphragm pump), but that is not a requirement. I use a dual head diaphragm pump capable of a maximum of 30 gallons per day for each head (a Reef Filler pump from Champion Lighting). In my setup, once I have a 44-gallon trash can full of new salt water, all I do to perform a 44 gallon or smaller water change is plug in the pump. The wastewater is sent down the drain. Sometimes I change 44 gallons in one shot, taking about a day and a half. Sometimes I pump for a few hours at a time, and then wait for a few days.

These changes are slightly less efficient than single batch water changes of the same total volume. A continuous water change of 30% exactly matches one batch 26% water change. As with very small batch water changes, these have the advantage of neither stressing the organisms (assuming the change is done reasonably slowly), nor altering the water level in the aquarium. The ease of doing such changes automatically also makes it far more likely that busy or lazy aquarists will actually do them.

Conclusion

Water changes are a good way to help control certain processes that serve to drive reef aquarium water away from its starting purity. Some things build up in certain situations (organics, certain metals, sodium, chloride, nitrate, phosphate, sulfate, etc.), and some things become depleted (calcium, magnesium, alkalinity, strontium, silica, etc.). Water changes can serve to help correct these imbalances, and in some cases may be the best way to deal with them. Water changes of 15-30% per month (whether carried out once a month, daily or continuously) have been shown in the graphs above to be useful in moderating the drift of these different seawater components from starting levels. For most reef aquaria, I recommend such changes as good aquarium husbandry. In general, the more the better, if carried out appropriately, and if the new salt water is of appropriate quality.

Calcium and alkalinity, being rapidly depleted in most reef aquaria, are not well controlled, or even significantly impacted by such small water changes. In order to maintain them with no other supplements, changes on the order of 30-50% PER DAY would be required. Nevertheless, that option may still be a good choice for very small aquaria, especially if the changes are slow and automatic.
 
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