Bad advice caught up with me

[AirForceAquariu]

Well it's here. I QT'ed every addition except my first pair of clowns (bad LFS advice getting started :rolleye1:. Sadly they must have brought in ich that has now shown itself. Luckily I have my QT set up with an inhabitant (midas blenny) so I am good to go.... maybe?

I want to have all my inhabitants in the 20g with some PVC, a small powerhead, and a HOB filter. I planned on using some dividers if needed (especially for the flame angel since he doesn't like the royal gramma). I want to make sure that this will be ok (with proper husbandry of course) for bioload for my fallow period. Inhabitants in sig line.

 

[Zane24]

Just to be safe I'd also throw in a air pump and bubbler so there's enough oxygen. Are you planning to use copper or TTM.

 

[AirForceAquariu]

Probably not a bad idea. There is a lot of flow kicking in there. when I feed the Blenny the food never settles, which is nice for maintenance.

I was planning on trying Cupramine first. If that proves to have an serious impact on the Angel or Wrasse I will switch to hypo (difficult I know, but manageable with the small water volume)

 

[Zane24]

Only reason I mentioned the extra bubbler was due to a past experience where I had a bio wheel and powerhead both oversized and lost a tang due to oxygen. Meds can take oxygen from the water. To be safe I always have all 3 now. Probably over kill but I'd rather be safe than sorry. I've always had great success with cupramine but I've never used it on a flame angel. I've read mixed reviews but I think people who have had success slowly get to the therapeutic dose. Taking twice as long as the directions state. Hopefully others with more experience on cupramine, angels, and wrasse can chime in.

 

[julie180]

I would not even try copper with an angel and wrasse. Look into tank to tank transfer method and see if that is doable for you.

 

[Spar]

I would not even try copper with an angel and wrasse. Look into tank to tank transfer method and see if that is doable for you.

+1 - angels and copper can be risky - too many reports of HLLE

 

[das75]

Test for ammonia, amazing how fast can rise in a small tank

 

[AirForceAquariu]

Yeah I will be checking the tank regularly. Last night I caught everything from the DT except the wrasse... He is quick. Even with most rock out and 10 gallons with it in buckets he was so elusive. I will wait until he is a little hungry tomorrow and trap him.

As for the TTM it will be a little difficult for me in the situation I am in. SO I was hoping to try copper or Hypo.

 

[Nina51]

i would definitely see if ttm is manageable for you even though it might be a pita. done right, it's as close to a 100% cure as you're gonna get. any other method will not give you that peace of mind. it would suck to try copper or hypo, think you've got it licked, put everything back in your dt only to have another outbreak.

good luck with whatever you decide to do!

 

[snorvich]

i would definitely see if ttm is manageable for you even though it might be a pita. done right, it's as close to a 100% cure as you're gonna get. any other method will not give you that peace of mind. it would suck to try copper or hypo, think you've got it licked, put everything back in your dt only to have another outbreak.

good luck with whatever you decide to do!

I agree.

 

[Jade5051]

I find it amazing that almost everyone here declares how effective and successful the TTM is but yet the guy at my LFS doesn't even know what TTM is, how it works, and has years of experience without trying it or hearing about it. Makes me wonder...

 

[AirForceAquariu]

Thank you for the input. Perhaps Steve and Nina can provide a little insight then to assuage my worries. Mainly these

1) How sensitive exactly is the timing to the transfers? In my work I sometimes end up working long hours or early ones. I worry I might miss a transfer and stress the fish unnecessarily.

2) My stocking list is in my signature. I could get some Petco 10 gallons ($1 per gallon sale after all). on top of the 20 G QT would 2 additional 10 gallons suffice?

 

[ThRoewer]

1) you need to stay below 72 hours (=3 days sharp). It is possible (and recommended) to do transfers sooner as long as you do it for a total of 12 days. When in doubt to make it on time, rather do transfers every 2 or 2.5 days. Doing it every other day also greatly reduces the risk of ammonia build ups.
I would also recommend to lower the salinity (1.016 should be fine) to reduce the stress for the fish and the cost on salt.
You can also mix some Beta 1,3D Glucan into your fish's food to boost their immune system

2) 20 gallon should be OK for 7 small fish (I don't see anything big on your list).
I would get a few large clear Sterilite containers for the transfers and maybe a 20 gallon QT to hold the fish afterwards for the fallow period.
Set up the QT as soon as possible and start cycling it. You can decorate this tank with anything suitable for saltwater. Important is only that you can sterilize it. I use dry Real Reef Live Rock (man made) and ceramic flower pots. Both can be boiled for sterilization and is in my opinion better for the fish than PVC:

Though PVC is ideal for the transfers as it is easier to sterilize - just run it through your dishwasher on the Pots & Pans program without using detergent. The heat of the washing and the drying cycles alone will kill everything that isn't washed away so you may skip the 24 hours drying. If you want to be extra sure add some bleach to the machine before starting it.

 

[snorvich]

1) you need to stay below 72 hours (=3 days sharp). It is possible (and recommended) to do transfers sooner as long as you do it for a total of 12 days. When in doubt to make it on time, rather do transfers every 2 or 2.5 days. Doing it every other day also greatly reduces the risk of ammonia build ups.
I would also recommend to lower the salinity (1.016 should be fine) to reduce the stress for the fish and the cost on salt.
You can also mix some Beta 1,3D Glucan into your fish's food to boost their immune system

2) 20 gallon should be OK for 7 small fish (I don't see anything big on your list).
I would get a few large clear Sterilite containers for the transfers and maybe a 20 gallon QT to hold the fish afterwards for the fallow period.
Set up the QT as soon as possible and start cycling it. You can decorate this tank with anything suitable for saltwater. Important is only that you can sterilize it. I use dry Real Reef Live Rock (man made) and ceramic flower pots. Both can be boiled for sterilization and is in my opinion better for the fish than PVC.

Though PVC is ideal for the transfers as it is easier to sterilize - just run it through your dishwasher on the Pots & Pans program without using detergent. The heat of the washing and the drying cycles alone will kill everything that isn't washed away so you may skip the 24 hours drying. If you want to be extra sure add some bleach to the machine before starting it.

Good advice. 2x2x2x2x2x2 is better than 3x3x3x3 for several reasons; however I simply add Prime on day 2 for ammonia nullification just in case.

 

[snorvich]

I find it amazing that almost everyone here declares how effective and successful the TTM is but yet the guy at my LFS doesn't even know what TTM is, how it works, and has years of experience without trying it or hearing about it. Makes me wonder...

Unless an aquarist becomes familiar with the marine biology concepts that are used by professional aquarists, they often do not know about tank transfer, and other easy effective quarantine protocols. You might read the stickies in this forum for some interesting information and then you can test how knowledgeable your LFS guy really is. :rollface:

 

[ThRoewer]

Unless an aquarist becomes familiar with the marine biology concepts that are used by professional aquarists, they often do not know about tank transfer, and other easy effective quarantine protocols. You might read the stickies in this forum for some interesting information and then you can test how knowledgeable your LFS guy really is. :rollface:

Even the good guys that are quite knowledgeable usually don't know or even care much about fish diseases - fish are usually not their focus but rather corals.
Ask them about corals, their parasites and how to treat or prevent them and you will likely get a much better info. These days corals are just more hip.

I've seen where immediate action was taken when corals showed the slightest signs of infection and regular dipping is done religiously.
At the same time you can tell them that some of their fish are sick and even though they acknowledge it, nothing is done - there seems just not enough money in saving sick fish.

 

[snorvich]

My interests have evolved where coral is more my focus these days. Still, all in all, I do not want sick fish.

 

[ThRoewer]

Well, to me fish still have a higher standing, simply because they are much more like us than any coral. Fish have a central nervous system and can feel pain and fear.

 

[snorvich]

Well, to me fish still have a higher standing, simply because they are much more like us than any coral. Fish have a central nervous system and can feel pain and fear.

Don't get me wrong, I enjoy my fish and have some in excess of 10 years longevity. But, as a diver, my interests are more than just keeping fish. And even the fish I enjoy are more of the smaller ones with unusual habits.

 

[AirForceAquariu]

So here is my thought process on tank space. 2 10 gallons for the TTM and the 20 gallon QT I already have up and running (with the fish in now and already cycled) now for the remainder of the fallow period. Sound reasonable?

Would the transfer from the 20 to the 10's count as the first if I then sterilize and refill the 20?

All of this is contingent on me catching that damn sneaky Wrasse.... I would rather not empty out my rock again so I will try and trick him when he gets hungry with a trap. He is on to me though....