Bad batch of Instant Ocean? Alkalinity through the ROOF!!!
- Thread starter Megalodon
- Start date
dragon_slayer
In Memoriam
spham said:
wished i have only invested $4000 into my tanks..............might need to bump that up by 10x at minimum.
kc
MiddletonMark
Premium Member
My recent mix of IO [to start up tank #3] ... 50 gallons [+/- a few] of IO to 1.025. `Old Style' of IO bucket, source is Petsmart online freeship deal in early August.
No cloudiness or other unusual symptoms. Put into tank and sump, circulating with Mag 5 [40 breeder and 15g rubbermaid sump], Mag 3 in tank for additional circulation when adding salt mix.
Has been mixed and circulating for about 27 hours now.
Salinity still 1.025 [refractometer] aka 35 ppt
Ph. 8.2 [Aq. Systems]
Alk 10.6 [Salifert]
Ca 370 [Seachem]
Suprised to find the Calcium this high, normally it does not test this high in my past IO tests of this salt. Happy I don't need to move it up that much to put it in fine balance with Alk.
Now to start moving all the LR/substrate from my LR curing tank into this tank [cured 3 months ...] - get my propagation tank aquascaped and set up!
No cloudiness or other unusual symptoms. Put into tank and sump, circulating with Mag 5 [40 breeder and 15g rubbermaid sump], Mag 3 in tank for additional circulation when adding salt mix.
Has been mixed and circulating for about 27 hours now.
Salinity still 1.025 [refractometer] aka 35 ppt
Ph. 8.2 [Aq. Systems]
Alk 10.6 [Salifert]
Ca 370 [Seachem]
Suprised to find the Calcium this high, normally it does not test this high in my past IO tests of this salt. Happy I don't need to move it up that much to put it in fine balance with Alk.
Now to start moving all the LR/substrate from my LR curing tank into this tank [cured 3 months ...] - get my propagation tank aquascaped and set up!
reefmadness
New member
My tank is in mid-crash as we speak 7 dead fish & clean-up crew & counting. All the result of my last water change useing Instant Ocean purchased from J & L. I had the same white residue. J & L advised me it was the result of me adding too much salt ( 4 1/2 cups to 10 gallon's ) too quickly ............................. ??????????
Wow. Very informative thread.
Re IO being the culprit, there's a principle in law called (Latin) "res ipsa loquiter," which means "the thing speaks for itself." It is a principle that if something doesn't ordinarily happen but for someone else's negligence, their negligence may be presumed even without being able to show the direct route of causation. Sounds to me like Megalodon has been VERY careful and conscientious in his methodologies, the only thing being different being the suspect salt. I would be quite curious to see what, if anything, AS does to rectify this situation.
As for me, I have used IO intermittently, but have generally preferred Tropic Marin. (It tastes better. Just kidding! )
Re IO being the culprit, there's a principle in law called (Latin) "res ipsa loquiter," which means "the thing speaks for itself." It is a principle that if something doesn't ordinarily happen but for someone else's negligence, their negligence may be presumed even without being able to show the direct route of causation. Sounds to me like Megalodon has been VERY careful and conscientious in his methodologies, the only thing being different being the suspect salt. I would be quite curious to see what, if anything, AS does to rectify this situation.
As for me, I have used IO intermittently, but have generally preferred Tropic Marin. (It tastes better. Just kidding! )
Megalodon
Clowning Around
Oh no Reefermadness, when did you buy that bucket of salt? I thought it was the last batch J&Ls had from that truck-load, but who knows.
They said you added too much salt too fast? They should know better after dealing with me that there's more to this cloudy killer batch of IO than that. What was your salinity? How long did the mix sit for before adding it to the tank?
I did a 90% water change with all the available RO water I had (which was none!) and the remainder tap water, matching temperature and salinity, IMO only. That is the only thing that saved my tank.
My good bucket of IO salt I got from J&Ls right after this incident is fine, so I guess it's safe to assume it's hit and miss with this batch.
J&Ls has Kent salt too, from the same factory but obviously a different batch. I still decided to take my chances with IO but maybe after hearing that I'm not the only one, I'd get Kent for now if that was the only two choices I had... at least until this is resolved. I'm certainly not saying I'll never use IO again in the future.
:eek2: :eek2: :eek2:
They said you added too much salt too fast? They should know better after dealing with me that there's more to this cloudy killer batch of IO than that. What was your salinity? How long did the mix sit for before adding it to the tank?
I did a 90% water change with all the available RO water I had (which was none!) and the remainder tap water, matching temperature and salinity, IMO only. That is the only thing that saved my tank.
My good bucket of IO salt I got from J&Ls right after this incident is fine, so I guess it's safe to assume it's hit and miss with this batch.
J&Ls has Kent salt too, from the same factory but obviously a different batch. I still decided to take my chances with IO but maybe after hearing that I'm not the only one, I'd get Kent for now if that was the only two choices I had... at least until this is resolved. I'm certainly not saying I'll never use IO again in the future.
:eek2: :eek2: :eek2:
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reefmadness said:
That makes no sense at all. I add my salt all at once (9 cups) to a white 20-gal Rubbermaid container that has about 17 or 18 gallons of freshwater in it and just stir it by hand for 20 seconds with a large white plastic spoon before turning on the airstone. I stir it perhaps two or three times during the next three or four hours and then I just leave it alone for three or four days until I'm ready to put the heater in there before adjusting salinity and using it for a water change. I'm not using Instant Ocean. The brand that I am using takes about 24 hours to completely clear with just the airstone. There has never been any sort of chalky residue but there is always a very small amount of tan sediment -- perhaps a tablespoon at most -- that settles out after about 48 hours. I just leave it on the bottom of the container.
If I were you, I would mail a 1/2 cup sample of the salt mix to Randy Holmes-Farley for testing. Just send him a PM for instructions.
As far as your present problem is concerned, you need to make a very large water change as quickly as possible with a different batch of salt mix.
Good luck,
Megalodon
Clowning Around
Very right Ninong.
Reefmadness, go back to J&Ls ASAP before they close in an hour and a half and exchange that for new salt. I say go back there 1) because they're way cheaper and 2) they'll probably gladly exchange it for you like they did me. If they don't let you keep the back bucket, then remember to get two cups in a bag for testing.
I had new water in the tank within six hours and still some damage was irreversible, so if you wait overnight things will be glim for you.
Reefmadness, go back to J&Ls ASAP before they close in an hour and a half and exchange that for new salt. I say go back there 1) because they're way cheaper and 2) they'll probably gladly exchange it for you like they did me. If they don't let you keep the back bucket, then remember to get two cups in a bag for testing.
I had new water in the tank within six hours and still some damage was irreversible, so if you wait overnight things will be glim for you.
Can you guys please let me know the results> I set up a 55 gallon qt tank this week took 20 gallons from main tank mixed 35 gallons tap with IO also used amquel plus. Everything was gasping for air within hours. Did a twenty gallon water change with Ro added electro right. Still no success. 8 hours later did another twenty with Ro and electro right. 4 hours everything is dead. Something either reacted or bad something. Never have I ever had this kind of luck. Lost about 150 worth of fish not only costly but some of them I've had snce I started 4 months ago.
well lets hope I can get down to the bottom of this.
well lets hope I can get down to the bottom of this.
justletmein
Premium Member
PureSalty said:
I think it's the same manufacturer so you're still subject to the same screw-ups.
Randy - I thank you for doing the test. I understand fully the disclamer and unless IO-AS is watching this board I will be careful as to how I disscuss this information with them. They have tried to contact me but I was understandably unavailable.
I will have more comments later but for now I need some more sleep.
Just got married yesteday and am running on vapors :smokin:
Thomas
I will have more comments later but for now I need some more sleep.
Just got married yesteday and am running on vapors :smokin:
Thomas
Megalodon
Clowning Around
Thomas, congratulations on your marriage
Thomas, congratulations on your marriage
Did Aquarium Systems try contacting you really? Did you leave them a message or did they track you down? They haven't tried contacting me... if anyone wants to talk my name is Doug Sabiston and my cell number is 604-916-3684. I'm not scared to open my name and phone number to the public.
One thing I know is Aquarium Systems is open tomorrow and I'm phoning them. They'll get my salt sample soon so they'll know. Oh Hell they'll know.
I commend Aquarium Systems if they're actually looking to resolve this matter. I'll continue to buy from them if they do. However, if Aquarium Systems claims they're the victim, I think I'll then need some anger management.
I'm Canadian so I know I'm not subject to such laws. Here we believe, if it's a fact and it isn't in the courts, we can say it. I thought America was the same but I guess it's a bit lawsuit-happy down there so that's fine. Nuts, but fine.
What I say, I know from the bottom of my heart is true and I can prove it, and I also know as a newspaper reporter it's fair comment.
Victor, test the alkalinity and tell us what it is. Also, is it cloudy?
:thumbsup: :wavehand: :thumbsup: :wavehand: :thumbsup:
Thomas, congratulations on your marriage
Did Aquarium Systems try contacting you really? Did you leave them a message or did they track you down? They haven't tried contacting me... if anyone wants to talk my name is Doug Sabiston and my cell number is 604-916-3684. I'm not scared to open my name and phone number to the public.
One thing I know is Aquarium Systems is open tomorrow and I'm phoning them. They'll get my salt sample soon so they'll know. Oh Hell they'll know.
I commend Aquarium Systems if they're actually looking to resolve this matter. I'll continue to buy from them if they do. However, if Aquarium Systems claims they're the victim, I think I'll then need some anger management.
I'm Canadian so I know I'm not subject to such laws. Here we believe, if it's a fact and it isn't in the courts, we can say it. I thought America was the same but I guess it's a bit lawsuit-happy down there so that's fine. Nuts, but fine.
What I say, I know from the bottom of my heart is true and I can prove it, and I also know as a newspaper reporter it's fair comment.
Victor, test the alkalinity and tell us what it is. Also, is it cloudy?
:thumbsup: :wavehand: :thumbsup: :wavehand: :thumbsup:
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mjag
New member
Hey
Hey
Well I set my tank up about 8 weeks ago. Using IO I got from the LFS. I did a major water change last week and it looked very very milky. I didnt like the idea of the fresh mixed water looking like that so I looked around RC and just though as a few other people That I added the salt to much to quick. Bad Bad choice on my part I should of went out and picked some differnt salt up. Cause my tank looked worse than it did since the start up. Since than I have performed another 30 gal water change with a new bag of salt everything mixed well and no milky water. So we will see how the rest of my corals look like in a few days. Any more ideas of what I can do?
Heres a few more posts That I have done talking about my issues
http://reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=241586
http://reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=232309
Hey
Well I set my tank up about 8 weeks ago. Using IO I got from the LFS. I did a major water change last week and it looked very very milky. I didnt like the idea of the fresh mixed water looking like that so I looked around RC and just though as a few other people That I added the salt to much to quick. Bad Bad choice on my part I should of went out and picked some differnt salt up. Cause my tank looked worse than it did since the start up. Since than I have performed another 30 gal water change with a new bag of salt everything mixed well and no milky water. So we will see how the rest of my corals look like in a few days. Any more ideas of what I can do?
Heres a few more posts That I have done talking about my issues
http://reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=241586
http://reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=232309
Megalodon, I didn't notice anywhere, but may have missed it. Did you notice if your bucket of salt had an unbroken plastic seal around the cover at the time you recieved the bucket? I know I use my instant Ocean buckets to store and mix all kinds of things. Is it possible the bucket could have been opened and tightly reclosed before you got it? Also possible some prankster dumped something into the bucket after it left instant ocean before you recieved it. Just wondering if you had to rip the plastic tear tab/ring or what ever you call the plastic strip that you have to cut and forcibly remove before removing the cover for the first time.
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