Big news for angelfish fans of RCT

[velvetelvis]

I guess you guys are disappointed cause you wanted to see the fish go to online stores that would have sold the fish cheaper than it is now.

It was pretty obvious QM will get the fish , I remember they were getting quite a few resplendens and interruptus on the last time Frank was breeding them.
I still kick myself for not getting a few resplendens then, i remember visiting QM looking at the fish and then decided not to buy, big mistake.

I think Frank did the right choice.

There is probably not so many of them and selling them through QM and then LFS will be the right way.

I hope more species will be coming soon.

It's not price that's my issue, it's communication. It actually irritates me when people gripe about the price of captive-bred livestock. I keep only captive-bred fish, so I'm used to paying higher prices--and don't mind doing so. By the time I became aware of RCT a couple of years ago they had already stopped selling fish, so I wasn't aware that they sold through Quality Marine (and since they're wholesale and I live across the country where I can't just drop in, that doesn't do an average hobbyist like me much good).

I'm not even in the market for an angelfish, CB or otherwise. I was just excited when this news came out, and looking forward to more information and updates from RCT. I don't have a problem with Frank and his crew trying to get the best prices for their fish. They've done groundbreaking work, and deserved to be fairly compensated for it!

 

[copps]

Props to them for putting so much work into breeding ornamental marine fish, but I have to say I'm pretty disheartened that kind of effort is going into hybrids when there are so many species that could use the help. I'm sure there is a market for hybrids, just like there's a market for flowerhorns and parrot cichlids, but it would be nice to see greater effort going into projects that could take some pressure off of wild fish populations instead.

Comparing Frank's work to the production of flowerhorns and parrot cichlids is an insult. Are you aware of his work with the Xiphypops subgenus for his PhD? As I've said many times before Frank is in the business of scientific research, not marketing or selling fish. I like many of us would love to see Frank dedicate himself to producing many of the rare fish we're looking for in good numbers, but he is just one man... this is not a small campus with a huge team like ORA (ORA is great too!)... Frank is a one man show in his home. And asking for greater effort from him? Frank was the first to captively spawn and raise angelfish, and has now done twelve Centropyge species and two hybrids... without Frank the list of captively produced Centropyge species would be a grand total of ONE.

Oh... Blueharbor huh??

Seems they get all the sweet stuff!:sad2:

Not only is Japan the major market for Frank's fish, but Frank and Koji Wada of Blue Harbor go back years... in fact there would be no resplendens (or this hybrid) without Koji... as he supplied Frank with them, so it is no coincidence Koji gets a good bit of Frank's fish.

We will not be getting any of RCT's fish. Sorry, we tried... politics.

Kevin

Come on Kevin! That's a bit harsh. :beer: The agreement and relationship Frank has with QM goes back years and long before PIA. I understand your frustration, but you and Dan have many of these agreements yourself, and you cannot slight Frank for honoring this.

No desire to jump through hoops for hybrids.

PIA not being allowed to carry them puts a bit of a sour taste in my mouth as well.

It is not that PIA is not allowed to carry them... they just have to go through the proper channels like everyone else. QM getting them usually works out best, but in this case it is a bit frustrating because RCT and PIA are both on Oahu. But agreements are agreements...

2.5G is the highest price in the world I ever heard of.
They are much cheaper in Asia.
No need to blame American market for that.

Vili as you know the past few years have been very light years for juvenile interrupta, driving the market up. In fact the retail price in Japan has been on par with what Live Aquaria is offering theirs for (between $2300 and $2400 when I converted the yen), and LA has sold none. Where can you currently get juvenile interrupta in Asia cheaper? I introduced Koji Wada of BH to Kevin Kohen of LA a few years ago at MACNA as they are both good friends and good people... Koji sent three interrupta... I took one and the other two are up on the site... I was just on the West Coast earlier this week and went by Quality Marine and they had for the first time ever two juvenile wild interrupta, which was nice to see. Later this summer I will be diving coastal Japan with Koji and hope to see wild interrupta myself for the first time.

Copps

 

[reefjunkie42]

jellious of everything you just said. But you have many strong points copps. Thank you for sharing some insight

Comparing Frank's work to the production of flowerhorns and parrot cichlids is an insult. Are you aware of his work with the Xiphypops subgenus for his PhD? As I've said many times before Frank is in the business of scientific research, not marketing or selling fish. I like many of us would love to see Frank dedicate himself to producing many of the rare fish we're looking for in good numbers, but he is just one man... this is not a small campus with a huge team like ORA (ORA is great too!)... Frank is a one man show in his home. And asking for greater effort from him? Frank was the first to captively spawn and raise angelfish, and has now done twelve Centropyge species and two hybrids... without Frank the list of captively produced Centropyge species would be a grand total of ONE.



Not only is Japan the major market for Frank's fish, but Frank and Koji Wada of Blue Harbor go back years... in fact there would be no resplendens (or this hybrid) without Koji... as he supplied Frank with them, so it is no coincidence Koji gets a good bit of Frank's fish.



Come on Kevin! That's a bit harsh. :beer: The agreement and relationship Frank has with QM goes back years and long before PIA. I understand your frustration, but you and Dan have many of these agreements yourself, and you cannot slight Frank for honoring this.



It is not that PIA is not allowed to carry them... they just have to go through the proper channels like everyone else. QM getting them usually works out best, but in this case it is a bit frustrating because RCT and PIA are both on Oahu. But agreements are agreements...





Vili as you know the past few years have been very light years for juvenile interrupta, driving the market up. In fact the retail price in Japan has been on par with what Live Aquaria is offering theirs for (between $2300 and $2400 when I converted the yen), and LA has sold none. Where can you currently get juvenile interrupta in Asia cheaper? I introduced Koji Wada of BH to Kevin Kohen of LA a few years ago at MACNA as they are both good friends and good people... Koji sent three interrupta... I took one and the other two are up on the site... I was just on the West Coast earlier this week and went by Quality Marine and they had for the first time ever two juvenile wild interrupta, which was nice to see. Later this summer I will be diving coastal Japan with Koji and hope to see wild interrupta myself for the first time.

Copps

 

[copps]

jellious of everything you just said. But you have many strong points copps. Thank you for sharing some insight

No sweat... and sorry I come off as defensive, but Frank is a great person and good friend for years... I still have one of the twelve CB lemonpeels he raised in 2002! For years I defended him as so many people complained he was selling his interrupta and resplendens for $600 to $800, and now so many people are wishing they had those days back.

I of course understand everyone's frustrations as you all know I am as big an angelfish fan as anyone in the world, but as I have always said there is a reason Frank trailblazed captive spawning and raising or angelfish... it is INCREDIBLY hard and labor intensive... years ago the great Matt Wittenrich spoke directly after me at a MACNA and we had lunch afterwards... Matt penned one of the new bibles of breeding in this hobby, won Aquarist of the year in 2010 from MASNA, and is doing his own work with angelfish now... and he called Frank genious! Frank is not very involved in the aquarium industry, and so I have been his voice for years, sharing what he's okay with me sharing. He's a great man and has such a passion for the ocean, and he's published much of his work in both hobby related and scientific related periodicals and so I just wanted to give some insight as many people reading the recent comments might not know that...

Centropyge fans have been spoiled by Frank's work to the point that him releasing news of new species cracked not even applauded anymore... Many people look at him like he's breeding guppies and expect so much more than is possible... the numbers he has are not by choice... he'd love to have enough to supply the world market... but he is one man and the numbers he has are the result of his best efforts and he should not be criticized... As always I'd like to say congratulations to him for his contributions and sleepness nights feeding fry... daily trips to get water and wild plankton... and tireless efforts to scientifically document it all...

:thumbsup:

Copps

 

[Overboard]

COPPS comments make sense to me. Frank is a pioneer in a new field and even though I do not know him, my guess is he puts in an extraordinary amount of effort to achieve each breakthrough. He must love it for the science and our hobby benefits. Eventually, and it may be years, someone will develop production processes based on his success and we will have more species options with fish easier to acclimate. I must admit, it is hard to wait after seeing what he has achieved. I would love a resplendent, or conspic., etc.

 

[copps]

And while I can understand that well-heeled Japanese aquarists, with their deep pockets and appreciation of rare fish, might be their primary market, why are so few fish going to the US? I don't mean to come down on RCT or downplay their considerable accomplishments, but I worry that they risk alienating the potential customers stateside who have been eagerly waiting for their livestock, only to feel confused, under-informed, and frustrated.

So few fish coming to the US? May I ask where you got this info and with what you are basing your comments on? The fish are being split up equally between Japan and the US between Blue Harbor and Quality Marine... why would Frank "alienate" his customers? He got around 40 with his best efforts... anyone who feels alienated from the numbers again as I said above does not understand what he's doing... can you elaborate on your worries? Are you aware of all he's published and are not happy with it? There is much more out there than his website... Again he's raised over ten times the number of species than the next Centropyge breeder, documented it, and still you worry people will be "confused, under-informed, and frustrated"? I can guarantee you without Frank's work Centropyge breeders would be EXPONENTIALLY more "confused, under-informed, and frustrated"...

Copps

 

[velvetelvis]

So few fish coming to the US? May I ask where you got this info and with what you are basing your comments on? The fish are being split up equally between Japan and the US between Blue Harbor and Quality Marine... why would Frank "alienate" his customers? He got around 40 with his best efforts... anyone who feels alienated from the numbers again as I said above does not understand what he's doing... can you elaborate on your worries? Are you aware of all he's published and are not happy with it? There is much more out there than his website... Again he's raised over ten times the number of species than the next Centropyge breeder, documented it, and still you worry people will be "confused, under-informed, and frustrated"? I can guarantee you without Frank's work Centropyge breeders would be EXPONENTIALLY more "confused, under-informed, and frustrated"...

Copps

Copps, I apologize. I don't mean to slight Frank and his work, and I apologize if I have. As I said in another post, I became aware of RCT only after they had temporarily suspended breeding and raising fish. I didn't realize until reading your latest posts how small angelfish broods are...I'm used to clownfish and dottybacks and other commercially bred fish that are abundantly available, and I had just assumed without thinking that all CB fish could be raised and sold on a similarly large scale.

I also didn't realize that Frank/RCT was not a large breeding operation--I realize probably no one is as big as ORA, but I had no idea he was doing all of this himself. I'm used to the websites of large breeding operations like ORA, which have the staff and time to maintain blogs and regular updates. I assumed that the website would be their primary method of communicating with the public.

By "alienate", I just meant that there was a lot of disappointment being voiced, at least on this forum, and I was afraid that this reflected how other hobbyists might feel--that the excitement over these fish would lose momentum. I didn't in any way mean that he was mishandling potential customers.

Please remember that a lot of us don't have access to the same insider knowledge as you do. I made some stupid, maybe even arrogant mistakes, but they were honest ones. I'll bow out now. Please forgive me for offending you and inadvertently insulting Frank. It was not intentional.

 

[copps]

Velvet, no worries!:beer: We are all friends here... anyone reading this far into my thread here shares my passion... I apologize if I came off too strong. I encourage us all voicing our own opinions, even if harsh, if we are properly informed. People can have their opinions on Frank's operations... again... so long as they're informed, and hopefully I've done that here the best I can. Check my posts here and ask anyone who knows me... I'm from Jersey and live outside of DC, but my heart is in the ocean and I'm as laid back as anyone you'll meet. We come here to share our passions and get away from our wives/spouses/significant others that many times give us a hard time about this hobby... so we must support eachother regardless of our differences and disagreements!:spin3: Do not bow out my friend... Stay and have a beer...:beer:

Copps

 

[pacislandaqua]

Hi Guys,

Copps is spot on. Frank is a great guy, and as his fish are highly sought after, but the numbers this time around are low in comparison to other spawns. The weather has been "cold" here too, which probably has something to do with it. He is doing the right thing. Keep encouraging him to expand the horizons, and im sure in the end, everyone will be happy

Aloha!

 

[pacislandaqua]

Come on Kevin! That's a bit harsh. :beer: The agreement and relationship Frank has with QM goes back years and long before PIA. I understand your frustration, but you and Dan have many of these agreements yourself, and you cannot slight Frank for honoring this.

Aloha John, It's Kevin...

I apologize that came off harsh, i wasn't meant to be. Politics is politics. It can work in your favor or it can work against you... An agreement is an agreement, this i know. This world is all who you know. I think i may use the term politics more loosely than some may be accustom too.

I have no reason to slight Frank. His accomplishments are an asset to this hobby and our future. We will all benefit from Franks work.

Aloha
Kevin

 

[reefjunkie42]

well said kev

Aloha John, It's Kevin...

I apologize that came off harsh, i wasn't meant to be. Politics is politics. It can work in your favor or it can work against you... An agreement is an agreement, this i know. This world is all who you know. I think i may use the term politics more loosely than some may be accustom too.

I have no reason to slight Frank. His accomplishments are an asset to this hobby and our future. We will all benefit from Franks work.

Aloha
Kevin

 

[auem]

well coming back to the shipment,any fun bet how the first lot gonna cost in the auction..?..i am guessing aroung $3500-$4000 per fish in the first lot...

 

[velvetelvis]

Velvet, no worries!:beer: We are all friends here... anyone reading this far into my thread here shares my passion... I apologize if I came off too strong. I encourage us all voicing our own opinions, even if harsh, if we are properly informed. People can have their opinions on Frank's operations... again... so long as they're informed, and hopefully I've done that here the best I can. Check my posts here and ask anyone who knows me... I'm from Jersey and live outside of DC, but my heart is in the ocean and I'm as laid back as anyone you'll meet. We come here to share our passions and get away from our wives/spouses/significant others that many times give us a hard time about this hobby... so we must support eachother regardless of our differences and disagreements!:spin3: Do not bow out my friend... Stay and have a beer...:beer:

Copps

Aw, thanks, Copps. No worries, and no hard feelings. I was being a little thin-skinned anyway. (I was actually born in NJ myself--raised in FL, though, as we moved from there when I was very small, after my dad finished grad school.) Your comment about needing to support each other made me laugh--I was remembering how I felt attending the annual Raleigh Aquarium Society workshop for the first time yesterday: a room full of people who knew scientific names and understood why I wanted to know exactly which kind of plants were found in that cichlid's habitat! My people! :lol:

I can understand that it must be frustrating, knowing how hard Frank has worked and the hurdles he's overcome, to see people on here griping and complaining about his Olympic-level accomplishments just because the market hasn't been showered with guppy-like quantities of rare Centropyges. :lol: I guess one of the risks of accomplishing the incredible is that next people expect you to do the impossible.

I'll take you up on that beer, and raise one to Frank, too. Cheers! :beer: And now, onward! I look forward to RCT's next releases with anticipation (and a lot more patience!).

 

[copps]

Hi Guys,

Copps is spot on. Frank is a great guy, and as his fish are highly sought after, but the numbers this time around are low in comparison to other spawns. The weather has been "cold" here too, which probably has something to do with it. He is doing the right thing. Keep encouraging him to expand the horizons, and im sure in the end, everyone will be happy

Aloha!

Right on Danny-Boy!

Aloha John, It's Kevin...

I apologize that came off harsh, i wasn't meant to be. Politics is politics. It can work in your favor or it can work against you... An agreement is an agreement, this i know. This world is all who you know. I think i may use the term politics more loosely than some may be accustom too.

I have no reason to slight Frank. His accomplishments are an asset to this hobby and our future. We will all benefit from Franks work.

Aloha
Kevin

No worries Kevin!:beer: If you ever get too upset... just think... "I live in Hawaii!" and that should get you through it...

 

[slojmn]

No sweat... and sorry I come off as defensive, but Frank is a great person and good friend for years... I still have one of the twelve CB lemonpeels he raised in 2002! For years I defended him as so many people complained he was selling his interrupta and resplendens for $600 to $800, and now so many people are wishing they had those days back.

I of course understand everyone's frustrations as you all know I am as big an angelfish fan as anyone in the world, but as I have always said there is a reason Frank trailblazed captive spawning and raising or angelfish... it is INCREDIBLY hard and labor intensive... years ago the great Matt Wittenrich spoke directly after me at a MACNA and we had lunch afterwards... Matt penned one of the new bibles of breeding in this hobby, won Aquarist of the year in 2010 from MASNA, and is doing his own work with angelfish now... and he called Frank genious! Frank is not very involved in the aquarium industry, and so I have been his voice for years, sharing what he's okay with me sharing. He's a great man and has such a passion for the ocean, and he's published much of his work in both hobby related and scientific related periodicals and so I just wanted to give some insight as many people reading the recent comments might not know that...

Centropyge fans have been spoiled by Frank's work to the point that him releasing news of new species cracked not even applauded anymore... Many people look at him like he's breeding guppies and expect so much more than is possible... the numbers he has are not by choice... he'd love to have enough to supply the world market... but he is one man and the numbers he has are the result of his best efforts and he should not be criticized... As always I'd like to say congratulations to him for his contributions and sleepness nights feeding fry... daily trips to get water and wild plankton... and tireless efforts to scientifically document it all...

:thumbsup:

Copps

Well said John...If I ever get to Oahu I hope to meet Frank in person and thank him for his dedication and grass roots research that will only help our hobby for years to come. I also understand the frustration of hobbyists in their desire to own one of these incredible fish.

I am soooo excited to see Frank continuing his extremely important research. The fact that he is able to get some successful hybrids out into the market is just icing on the cake . Back when he had the interruptus and the Resplendent hybrid I was on the waiting list for the interruptus. I was unable to get a pair but Frank offered me a couple of the Resplendent hybrids. I am so happy I took him up on that offer. I lost one about 6 months ago, I think to the spines of my Rabbitfish and I cried...it was a terrible loss for me. I still have one of the two and he is a cool little guy, well worth the price which at that time was the most I had ever spent on a fish. I cant say that now with my candy basslet pair and Earlei wrasse pair, hahahahaha. I remember reading comments about those Resplendent hybrids at the time...about how they looked just like a flameback and you could get one of those for $50. Such negativity! John was one to defend Frank's hard work and now that price seems extremely reasonable, Lol, how times have changed in the hobby. I like to keep the positivity out there as much as possible. I appreciate the passion people have in the hobby and if they have the money, want to spend it, and can provide a wonderful home for any fish or coral, then hat's off to you.

If you get the opportunity, can afford it, and appreciate the incredible work that Frank, by himself, has put into these little guys GO FOR IT!!!

My hope is that Frank will continue his awesome and inspiring work for our hobby and science as a whole, and in the end give us opportunities to enjoy the fruits of his labor .

 

[juuniz]

i want one

 

[Terra Ferma]

well coming back to the shipment,any fun bet how the first lot gonna cost in the auction..?..i am guessing aroung $3500-$4000 per fish in the first lot...

Am I the only one who thinks that the Resplendent Cherubfish looks strikingly similar to a Brazilian Flameback?

 

[4wheelvfr]

Any idea of when these will show up on QM's list.....and will they show up on their regular stocklist?

 

[reefjunkie42]

no they will go to DD only. email alerts will let you know there coming

 

[ryanrid]

$2400 is cheap for interrupta , last time i saw one in Aus was $5000....