Bio Ball Myth's ?
- Thread starter tspors
- Start date
crvz
Team RC
Yep, that's right. In my experience, they create an opportunity for detritus to collect, which is where the nitrates would come from. But if you do a good job of either keeping the flow in good shape or having a pre-filter to remove the opportunity, they'll help out just fine.
For newbies, who dont often understand the best way to set stuff up, I think this has more potential, but if well established they can be rather effective.
Gary Majchrzak
Team RC
this topic comes up a lot.
here's a link to a very informative fact filled thread on the topic of bioballs:
http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&postid=11672033#post11672033
here's a link to a very informative fact filled thread on the topic of bioballs:
http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&postid=11672033#post11672033
Here's a couple of links to discussions I've had re: bio-balls.
http://reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=1378015
http://reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=1378586
http://reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=1378015
http://reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=1378586
Reading this has confused me. I have bio-balls. My nitrates are low. I am fighting green hair algae and now cyano bacteria. I believe I have been over feeding. Until today I only had 3 fish and 2 snails.
The set up I bought has 3 different sponges. One above the balls and one after the balls. The other sponge is on the HOB filter. I have about 40lbs. of LR (that is only a guess-ta-ment). You can see a pic of my tank on members gallery, tanks.
Should I remove the balls and/or the sponges?
The set up I bought has 3 different sponges. One above the balls and one after the balls. The other sponge is on the HOB filter. I have about 40lbs. of LR (that is only a guess-ta-ment). You can see a pic of my tank on members gallery, tanks.
Should I remove the balls and/or the sponges?
Tswifty
New member
It's definitely not a myth... bio-balls can, and more often than not will become nitrate factories over time.
However, I do not think they are "the devil" by any means, and believe that it's not necessarily the bio-balls themselves that are the issue, but rather the maintenance of them that is problematic.
Just like a filter sponge, you need to keep it cleaned or it will become a nitrate factory. I don't know many people that would be willing to pull out large portions of the bio balls for cleaning on a regular basis.
Anything you can do to help prevent particles from collecting on the balls would also help your cause, which would include the use pre-filters, filter socks, proper feeding practices... etc.
I just don't see the benefit of them. You can get everything you need from the rock, sand, skimmer, and flow. Why throw something else in the mix that provides another place for deritus to collect, and requires routine maintenance? IMO the risk is just not worth the reward.
I'll end in agreement that there are many ways to run a successful marine aquarium, and also state that I believe success ultimately comes down to how dedicated you are to your hobby.
tspors... vey nice tank. good work :thumbsup:
However, I do not think they are "the devil" by any means, and believe that it's not necessarily the bio-balls themselves that are the issue, but rather the maintenance of them that is problematic.
Just like a filter sponge, you need to keep it cleaned or it will become a nitrate factory. I don't know many people that would be willing to pull out large portions of the bio balls for cleaning on a regular basis.
Anything you can do to help prevent particles from collecting on the balls would also help your cause, which would include the use pre-filters, filter socks, proper feeding practices... etc.
I just don't see the benefit of them. You can get everything you need from the rock, sand, skimmer, and flow. Why throw something else in the mix that provides another place for deritus to collect, and requires routine maintenance? IMO the risk is just not worth the reward.
I'll end in agreement that there are many ways to run a successful marine aquarium, and also state that I believe success ultimately comes down to how dedicated you are to your hobby.
tspors... vey nice tank. good work :thumbsup:
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I guess I don't get it;the continuous debate that is.
Ammonia to nitrite; nitrite to nitrate in aerobic areas on the high surface areas of bioballs in highly oxygenated water; means the denitrifcation process stops at nitrate which goes into the water column.
Without the bioballs the same amount of waste is processed on the rock or substrate in the aerobic areas there and then water seeps inside stripped of it's oxygen where anerobic bacteria(which need oxygen poor zones) convert the nitrate to free nitrogen.
The nitrate produced by the bioballs or other highly oxygenated media may never get to the anoxic zones inside the rock and substrate since it will likely be consumed by nuisance algae first particularly in a reef tank with significantly more lighting than a fish only might have..
So it seems clear that the use of media such as bioballs in high flow filtration devices does indeed diminish the effectiveness of the bio filter at least when it comes to nitrate ,since it produces it and in so doing preempts it's production on the live rock or substrate and has no intrinsic means to reduce it to free nitrogen.
Ammonia to nitrite; nitrite to nitrate in aerobic areas on the high surface areas of bioballs in highly oxygenated water; means the denitrifcation process stops at nitrate which goes into the water column.
Without the bioballs the same amount of waste is processed on the rock or substrate in the aerobic areas there and then water seeps inside stripped of it's oxygen where anerobic bacteria(which need oxygen poor zones) convert the nitrate to free nitrogen.
The nitrate produced by the bioballs or other highly oxygenated media may never get to the anoxic zones inside the rock and substrate since it will likely be consumed by nuisance algae first particularly in a reef tank with significantly more lighting than a fish only might have..
So it seems clear that the use of media such as bioballs in high flow filtration devices does indeed diminish the effectiveness of the bio filter at least when it comes to nitrate ,since it produces it and in so doing preempts it's production on the live rock or substrate and has no intrinsic means to reduce it to free nitrogen.
Gary Majchrzak
Team RC
exactly.
Some people just simply can't wrap their minds around this, Tom.
It's easier to recommend they slowly remove their bioballs because their system can be better off without them
Good summary, tmz.
seapug
Premium Member
Agree with TMZ. I've been involved in these threads so many times I've lost the motivation to explain it beyond "they are designed to generate nitrate, but do whatever you want."
It has nothing to do with how clean they are. Dirty bio balls are definitely bad, but even clean ones are specifically designed to turn ammonia into nitrate and stop the process there. In a reef tank, you want the aerobic zones to be adjacent to anaerobic zones so the nitrate is consumed in close proximity and in the same proportions as it's made. Bio balls do not do that.
Do some people use bioballs with no trouble? Yes. Does that make them "good" or worth spending money and devoting sump space to? No.
It has nothing to do with how clean they are. Dirty bio balls are definitely bad, but even clean ones are specifically designed to turn ammonia into nitrate and stop the process there. In a reef tank, you want the aerobic zones to be adjacent to anaerobic zones so the nitrate is consumed in close proximity and in the same proportions as it's made. Bio balls do not do that.
Do some people use bioballs with no trouble? Yes. Does that make them "good" or worth spending money and devoting sump space to? No.
Just my thought............
Bio-balls were orginally designed to increase surface area in an effort to increase aerobic nitrogen fixing bacteria...........
In this department they are extremely effecient and do there job very well..........they also have a great advantage as they put atomispheric oxygen back into the water............
However in the 1990's when they came to be the back bone of the wet/dry filteration system............Many ppl had a ton of mechanical filteration before the bioballs..................
This mechanical filteration pick-up all the debris and detrius before the water hit the bio-balls................
In most of the systems used today you see ppl having the water pour onto the bioballs without mechanical filteration.......this in turn leads to the bioballs being filled with crap and when this crap starts to break-down it turns the bioballs into the feared "nitrate factories"..................
However if an individual had say a 100 micron filter sock and then a 25 micron filter sock in-line before the bio-balls and these were changed on a regular bases...............I would say no one would have any problems and the bio-balls would stop getting such a bad rep.............
But newbie's dont put the mechanical filteration in before the bio-balls in this leads to the problem of nitrate factories............
A word on skimmers....................
As skimmers develop into high-tech pieces of machinery.......they also become more affordable........................
They are good pieces of equipment to have.......but in the early part of this hobby ppl didnt use this tech and there tanks where good looking and affordable
I think the major problem with ppl having bad water chemistry is that they dont start with RO/DI water and they dont do 10%~20% water changes on a weekly bases.............
IMO and IME the best filteration is
mechanical starting then biological filteration then chemical filteration
if you take these steps out of order the filteration cycle will not work properly and it ends up with ppl having high nitrates and phosphates...................
It doesn't matter what you use to accomplish this as long as it you have every step and it is in that order...................
Bio-balls were orginally designed to increase surface area in an effort to increase aerobic nitrogen fixing bacteria...........
In this department they are extremely effecient and do there job very well..........they also have a great advantage as they put atomispheric oxygen back into the water............
However in the 1990's when they came to be the back bone of the wet/dry filteration system............Many ppl had a ton of mechanical filteration before the bioballs..................
This mechanical filteration pick-up all the debris and detrius before the water hit the bio-balls................
In most of the systems used today you see ppl having the water pour onto the bioballs without mechanical filteration.......this in turn leads to the bioballs being filled with crap and when this crap starts to break-down it turns the bioballs into the feared "nitrate factories"..................
However if an individual had say a 100 micron filter sock and then a 25 micron filter sock in-line before the bio-balls and these were changed on a regular bases...............I would say no one would have any problems and the bio-balls would stop getting such a bad rep.............
But newbie's dont put the mechanical filteration in before the bio-balls in this leads to the problem of nitrate factories............
A word on skimmers....................
As skimmers develop into high-tech pieces of machinery.......they also become more affordable........................
They are good pieces of equipment to have.......but in the early part of this hobby ppl didnt use this tech and there tanks where good looking and affordable
I think the major problem with ppl having bad water chemistry is that they dont start with RO/DI water and they dont do 10%~20% water changes on a weekly bases.............
IMO and IME the best filteration is
mechanical starting then biological filteration then chemical filteration
if you take these steps out of order the filteration cycle will not work properly and it ends up with ppl having high nitrates and phosphates...................
It doesn't matter what you use to accomplish this as long as it you have every step and it is in that order...................
You missed this very important point in tmz's post:
"The nitrate produced by the bioballs or other highly oxygenated media may never get to the anoxic zones inside the rock and substrate since it will likely be consumed by nuisance algae first particularly in a reef tank with significantly more lighting than a fish only might have.
So it seems clear that the use of media such as bioballs in high flow filtration devices does indeed diminish the effectiveness of the bio filter at least when it comes to nitrate, since it produces it and in so doing preempts it's production on the live rock or substrate and has no intrinsic means to reduce it to free nitrogen."
I've been doing this since 1980 (well, before, with an undergravel, but that isn't even to consider)---and in the '80's I had spray bars, filter mats, bioballs, carbon bags, 4 huge trays of same before the return pump---with a sponge and a 50 gallon sump; and I wouldn't go back to those for all the tea in China. Give me a fuge, a skimmer and the live rock: so much less hassle than the wet-dry. And I grow things that wouldn't stay alive in that tank: part of it was the lighting, which was as good as was commonly available; but a good part of it was the uncertain water quality. Even with a 6 FOOT cylinder of carbon/filtration cleaning up the house water (pre-ro/di). It went from pretty good to not pretty any time I had to leave it for a few days trip.
Soooo much easier with what I run now.
Soooo much easier with what I run now.
A word on skimmers....................
As skimmers develop into high-tech pieces of machinery.......they also become more affordable........................
They are good pieces of equipment to have.......but in the early part of this hobby ppl didnt use this tech and there tanks where good looking and affordable
my response to this would be that in the early days before skimmers fish did not last as long and since we have been using them combined with living rock its now easier than ever to maintain reef aquaria, i also really like what sk8r said, its just so easy to keep it simple, theres just no need for bio balls whether good or bad, just keep it simple, sump/fudge/ living rock and skimmer plus flow, its just the way to go
As skimmers develop into high-tech pieces of machinery.......they also become more affordable........................
They are good pieces of equipment to have.......but in the early part of this hobby ppl didnt use this tech and there tanks where good looking and affordable
my response to this would be that in the early days before skimmers fish did not last as long and since we have been using them combined with living rock its now easier than ever to maintain reef aquaria, i also really like what sk8r said, its just so easy to keep it simple, theres just no need for bio balls whether good or bad, just keep it simple, sump/fudge/ living rock and skimmer plus flow, its just the way to go
The convience is definately worth everything
Before the technology we have now reef tanks where almost impossible and fish only tanks were diffucult
I have used bioballs and dont see the problem..........however I am putting in a fuge for my 150g and will continue to use bioballs
( i dont have a skimmer right now............)
I am in also in the process of curing another 60 lbs of liverock on top of the 150 existing pounds
BUT I would agree that bioballs are outdated and no longer needed..........But they are not to be dreaded by new comers.................
Basically i agree with sk8ter but i dont think we should just "throw away" the backbone of the filteration hobby for the last decade
Before the technology we have now reef tanks where almost impossible and fish only tanks were diffucult
I have used bioballs and dont see the problem..........however I am putting in a fuge for my 150g and will continue to use bioballs
( i dont have a skimmer right now............)
I am in also in the process of curing another 60 lbs of liverock on top of the 150 existing pounds
BUT I would agree that bioballs are outdated and no longer needed..........But they are not to be dreaded by new comers.................
Basically i agree with sk8ter but i dont think we should just "throw away" the backbone of the filteration hobby for the last decade
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