110galreef
New member
Definitly looks like it could be a bacterial bloom. But you really think possible with only 30 ml/ day vinegar on 275g net volume. This is one reason I went what i figured was slow and a very small start
Bio-pellets, Vinegar, Vodka, or ???
- Thread starter Mock
- Start date
It is small, but if for some reason you get a species of bacteria that is mostly suspended rather than mostly attached to surfaces, that might happen.
OTOH, that species might be easier to export by skimming and might be better food for tank creatures. A bloom is not pleasing to look at, but otherwise, it may be a good thing.
OTOH, that species might be easier to export by skimming and might be better food for tank creatures. A bloom is not pleasing to look at, but otherwise, it may be a good thing.
110galreef
New member
Overall the cloudiness is mild, and not a big deal tolook at. Just an observation. Also I have noticed my skimmer is skimming a bit wetter and filling up a bit faster too. I will sit tight at the 30 ml's and just see how the next day or two turn out. If worse then I will back off, if the same or better I will just continue along.
Thanks Guys
Thanks Guys
:thumbsup:
Good luck.
Good luck.
110galreef
New member
Just a little update for anyone who cares.
been 10 days into vinegar.
275g net volume.
10ml day 1-3
20ml day 4-7...slighty cloudy
30ml day 7-10....cloudiness gone.
nitrate and P04 both 0 at test on day 11. PO4 was typically ~7-11ppb
Backed down vinegar to 25ml/day for now and increased feeding a tad for fish and will add a pinch of reef roids/coral frenzy or reef chilli twice a week and see how all goes. Only thing i have noticed is i have some green paly's that seem to not open fully last few days? Lack of food in water column?? But all other zoo's look fine as do all other corals.
So very light vinegar has really done the trick. I will watch and see now what happens to the tiny bit of algae on my frag plugs in the frag tank.
been 10 days into vinegar.
275g net volume.
10ml day 1-3
20ml day 4-7...slighty cloudy
30ml day 7-10....cloudiness gone.
nitrate and P04 both 0 at test on day 11. PO4 was typically ~7-11ppb
Backed down vinegar to 25ml/day for now and increased feeding a tad for fish and will add a pinch of reef roids/coral frenzy or reef chilli twice a week and see how all goes. Only thing i have noticed is i have some green paly's that seem to not open fully last few days? Lack of food in water column?? But all other zoo's look fine as do all other corals.
So very light vinegar has really done the trick. I will watch and see now what happens to the tiny bit of algae on my frag plugs in the frag tank.
Glad thing seem to be going well.
have some green paly's that seem to not open fully last few days? Lack of food in water column?? But all other zoo's look fine as do all other corals.
Zoanthus which don't feed much per Borneman,"Aquairum Corals" likely absorb some organic carbon source from the water to meet their minimal heterotrophic needs perhaps from the vinegar. . Those in my system have done extremely well over the 3 yrs of vodka and vinegar dosing. Fellow local zoanthid collectors comment that they "look like they are on steroids". Palythoa do show a feeding response to particulate foods . Maybe yours are closing to trap on the new food you are using.
Zoanthus which don't feed much per Borneman,"Aquairum Corals" likely absorb some organic carbon source from the water to meet their minimal heterotrophic needs perhaps from the vinegar. . Those in my system have done extremely well over the 3 yrs of vodka and vinegar dosing. Fellow local zoanthid collectors comment that they "look like they are on steroids". Palythoa do show a feeding response to particulate foods . Maybe yours are closing to trap on the new food you are using.
110galreef
New member
Interesting, they appear to be partially closed and not closed like when feeding. Also it is almost always they are closed now, and not just at sporadic times. I will snag a pic and post compared to what they looked like prior. They haven't appeard to be dying so I am hopeful. I can remove these if needed as they are not my most prized corals.
Thanks for the info tho, as hopefully you are correct and they ae just splurging!
Thanks for the info tho, as hopefully you are correct and they ae just splurging!
Maybe the nutrient levels are lower than they prefer.
110galreef
New member
ok here are the palys as they have looked last few days;
here is an older pic of typical openess:
All other zoo's look fine. These are the only palys I have though.
feeding/happy or starving/unhappy??
here is an older pic of typical openess:
All other zoo's look fine. These are the only palys I have though.
feeding/happy or starving/unhappy??
Some protopalythoa come from turbid waters with higher nutrients and less light . Zoanthus are predominantly high reef animals which hare highly autotrophic and thrive in high light pristine waters.
Perhaps ,they are reacting to increases in light intensity from increased water clarity or just snagging some bacteria or something is irritating them like a snail or pest. I have several colonies like those and they do fine with the vinegar an vodka.
How long have they been partially closed?
Perhaps ,they are reacting to increases in light intensity from increased water clarity or just snagging some bacteria or something is irritating them like a snail or pest. I have several colonies like those and they do fine with the vinegar an vodka.
How long have they been partially closed?
110galreef
New member
They have been like this for 4-5 days now. Don't look to be getting worse or smaller....
They are located in the bottom front left corner of a 250g tank. Lowest light area of the tank. Currently only 2 250w MH's too that are near end of life, so highly doubt it's too much light especially since the frags of these did fine in a frag tank that was only 10" tall under a 250w MH
They are located in the bottom front left corner of a 250g tank. Lowest light area of the tank. Currently only 2 250w MH's too that are near end of life, so highly doubt it's too much light especially since the frags of these did fine in a frag tank that was only 10" tall under a 250w MH
bcheriyan
Aqua99
Once I have stablized on the amount of Vinegar dosing .. I have removed GFO and only kept ROX carbon .. After that that No3 and PO4 where non detecatable .. . I still keep GFO handy ; just in case my Po4 goes up. But I also have Chaetomorpha and Caulerpa in my sump . I guess it depends on how much po4 added through feeding and other sources..
Some do ok without gfo. All in all the heterotrophic bacteria encouraged by organic carbon dosing that reduce the PO4 and NO3 consume both but also reduce an extra portion of NO3 via anaerobic activity .So, the export is not completely dwith the impor for NO3 and PO4 proportions.This often leaves a little PO4 for gfo to clean up.
Sorry for the typos. Here it is again.
Some do ok without gfo. All in all heterotrophic bacteria encouraged by organic carbon dosing consume PO4 and NO3. They also reduce an extra portion of NO3 to N2 gas via anaerobic activity. Thus, the proportions of NO3 and PO4 exported don't match those usually imported . More NO 3 is used leaving a little PO4 for gfo to clean up.
Some do ok without gfo. All in all heterotrophic bacteria encouraged by organic carbon dosing consume PO4 and NO3. They also reduce an extra portion of NO3 to N2 gas via anaerobic activity. Thus, the proportions of NO3 and PO4 exported don't match those usually imported . More NO 3 is used leaving a little PO4 for gfo to clean up.
Another thought.
Rarely but on a few occasions since I've been dosing organic carbon ,the udersides of flat rocks placed on the sand balcken with sufides, evidencing hydrogen sulfide production. Presumably the organics get under them somehow and the area becomes anoxic and the combination encourages sulfate reducing bacteria . The coral immediately above or close this activity may give a stressd appearance,ime. I'd take a look under that colony or puff some water under it with a turkey baster to flush it and oxygenate it.If you see blackened sand or rock sulfides have formed. They are not a worry but the hydrogen sufide coud be if there was a lot ;not from a relatively small rock but it could bother things in the immediate area.
110galreef
New member
tmz...
Thanks I will check it out!
Thanks I will check it out!
110galreef
New member
Update & a few more questions:
Update & a few more questions:
Updates:
Started Vinegar Jan 6th
275g net volume.
10ml day 1-3
20ml day 4-7...slighty cloudy
30ml day 7-10....cloudiness gone.
nitrate and P04 both 0 at test on day 11. PO4 was typically ~7-11ppb
Jan 16th:
backed down to 25ml/day of vinegar since i noticed no polyps on my poker start monti and my the palys prviously mentioned seemed partially clesed eup. I did pick the rocks these guys were on up and mix the sand up under them and shake the rocks they are on pretty good. To date no change. Still not great.
~Jan 20th:
PO4: 1ppb
Nitrate:0
Jan 24th
Backed down to 15ml/day as still no polyps on poker star monti and palys still don't look better. Few others seem to have a little less polyp extension like on my BN's. appears I may be starting to starve corals. So I started to add some extra reef chili, reef roids, and corals frenzy about 2x's a week.
Jan 29th:
PO4: 3ppb
Nitrate: 0
Looks like ~10-15ml/day vinegar will net me just enuf PO4 for my corals. I will continue as is and just up my feedings for the corals and see how all goes. Still at loss on the poker start monti and the paly's...Just starving? (both on bottom of tank on shallow sand bed) where they were happy prior.
Update & a few more questions:
Updates:
Started Vinegar Jan 6th
275g net volume.
10ml day 1-3
20ml day 4-7...slighty cloudy
30ml day 7-10....cloudiness gone.
nitrate and P04 both 0 at test on day 11. PO4 was typically ~7-11ppb
Jan 16th:
backed down to 25ml/day of vinegar since i noticed no polyps on my poker start monti and my the palys prviously mentioned seemed partially clesed eup. I did pick the rocks these guys were on up and mix the sand up under them and shake the rocks they are on pretty good. To date no change. Still not great.
~Jan 20th:
PO4: 1ppb
Nitrate:0
Jan 24th
Backed down to 15ml/day as still no polyps on poker star monti and palys still don't look better. Few others seem to have a little less polyp extension like on my BN's. appears I may be starting to starve corals. So I started to add some extra reef chili, reef roids, and corals frenzy about 2x's a week.
Jan 29th:
PO4: 3ppb
Nitrate: 0
Looks like ~10-15ml/day vinegar will net me just enuf PO4 for my corals. I will continue as is and just up my feedings for the corals and see how all goes. Still at loss on the poker start monti and the paly's...Just starving? (both on bottom of tank on shallow sand bed) where they were happy prior.
Bluecorals
New member
110galreef, how is your tank 9 months later since you started vinegar?
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