Bio-pellets, Vinegar, Vodka, or ???

Any ideas as to why Vodka may lead to cyano? Are many just dosing to much given a smaller setup as it is hard to dial in the smaller doses?

I am looking forward for my setup (275g net) and it seems like dosing something of 5-10ml vodka seems to be much cheaper than dosing 40-80ml of vinegar long run? I can easily dose a small 5 ml/day via my doser over say 4-6 times a day. ~ 1ml vodka every 4 hrs

I don't think I will need a lot to keep my system in check.

My nitrates have been 0 before starting this and my PO4 has been avg. .02x's in general via the hanna ULR. The checker has seemed very accurate for me, based on a reading one day, then say I feed the tank coral foods, test next day and it is a few ppb higher. Or if I do a WC then it is a few ppb lower, etc.....


I started Weds with 10ml vinegar, on friday went to 20ml, and on this Weds will go to 30 ml, then 40ml the following week and probably sit tight there for a bit and see how things go.

Should I be shooting for just under .02 PO4 or less or just go by algae and or corals.
I currently have no algae? tank so far looks the same, but i am dosing just a tiny amount.
 
I don't know why vodka it may lead to cyano. Initial dosing with high nutrients may be part of it. The bacterial activity in the breakdown at least initially is by different strains. Presumably, they complete less effectively with cyano.

Cost wise they are about the same. It takes about 2 gallons of vinegar to equal 1 liter of vodka in carbon sourcing.Store brand vinegar is about 3.50 per gallon . Bottom shelf vodka is $13 for 1.75 liters.

The vokda can be bolus dosed if you wish since it has a lessor immediate impact on ph. Overtime ,either vodka or vinegar will decrease ph about the same, Vinegar just adds the CO2 faster.

FWIW , I like a little PO4 and NO3 in my sytem and run it (.04ppm PO4 and .2 NO3 ) for a mixed sps dominant reef tank.. I observe the tanks but also test PO4 regularly and NO3 every 10 days or so but I'm a little obsessive about it.

How much you decide to dose depend on your aquairiim and how nutrient you add to it via foods, etc and this varies from system to system.
 
I see that many like a little PO4 and nitrate as well. I seem unable to get any nitrate regardless. If anything just a little extra PO4 from increased feedings. But the highest PO4 i have yet to see is 16ppb or .04852 and that was after stirring sand and feeding corals and testing the following day.

I guess I will just dose a little and see if I get any better looking corals and not worry so much about the PO4 and nitrate test numbers.
 
110galreef said:
Any ideas as to why Vodka may lead to cyano? Are many just dosing to much given a smaller setup as it is hard to dial in the smaller doses?
Click to expand...

IMO, the simple answer is that some species of cyanobacteria can consume it, and there is no a priori reason to think that other bacteria will outcompete it for that food source, especially if there is a substantial starting population of the cyano around. :)

The detailed answer may also have to do with availability of nitrogen, as cyano can fix it from the atmosphere while other species typically cannot. So very low nitrogen may favor cyano over other species, but bear in mind that the N source of bacteria could be ammonia or even organic nitrogen compounds, and not necessarily nitrate.
 
Hi Randy,
I just started dosing vinegar into my reef becuase my nitrates are too high, my system is ~37-38 gallons net, and I put about 5.5mL of white distilled vinegar in today. My pH dropped a little, but I tried to dose mid-day. I was going to aim for about 6-7mL tomorrow, does this sound ok? I will update with pictures of nitrate tests levels in a few days. This seems to be a great alternative becuase I didn't quite want to put money into biopellets if I didn't have too. :wave:
 
aquaenthusiast said:
Hi Randy,
I just started dosing vinegar into my reef becuase my nitrates are too high, my system is ~37-38 gallons net, and I put about 5.5mL of white distilled vinegar in today. My pH dropped a little, but I tried to dose mid-day. I was going to aim for about 6-7mL tomorrow, does this sound ok? I will update with pictures of nitrate tests levels in a few days. This seems to be a great alternative becuase I didn't quite want to put money into biopellets if I didn't have too. :wave:
Click to expand...

Sounds like a fine experiment. Let us know how it turns out. :)
 
Randy Holmes-Farley said:
It is quite reactive and would not be my choice for a nontoxic compound. Why would you want to use it?
Click to expand...
Because it's toxic in interesting ways: it's extremely toxic to some algae and bacteria, but weakly toxic to for instance fish and shrimp. It's also interesting in that it's a directly available source of carbon for plants - in high-tech freshwater aquaria it's used as a replacement for CO2.

One'd have to do a lot of testing to determine its characteristics and suitability in reef tanks, but that's why I asked, to see if someone had.
 
"it's extremely toxic to some algae and bacteria"

Keep in mind that coral have a close symbiotic relationship with some algae and bacteria within the their tissues and within the exterior mucal layer on polyps. Anything that disrupts this relationship can cause problems. ;)
 
HighlandReefer said:
Keep in mind that coral have a close symbiotic relationship with some algae and bacteria within the their tissues
Click to expand...
Yes. On the other hand those bacteria & algae are protected by the coral tissue & mucus, and we already know that people use peroxide baths to kill algae growing on their frags without killing their corals.

But like I said, a lot of testing is needed.
 
HighlandReefer said:
Siphonous algae can heal damages quickly in cell walls, so it may not be effective against them. Bryopsis is a siphonous algae.
Click to expand...
Yes, effect varies. In fresh water it kills red algae like Compsopogon while at least some green algae, notably Cladophora, even seem to be able to use it as a carbon source.
 
Is GAC. Necassary when dosing vinegar? I decided to stop carbon a few weeks back and and see if anything improved or went worse?
 
I think gac is helpful , particularly when dosing organics.FWIW,I have almost always used it 24/7.
 
Been a week now with vinegar. 10 ml/ day for first 3 days, 20ml for days 4-7 and just started 30ml/day yesterday. Tank is a tad cloudy. Nothing bad just a tad. I put fresh carbon in yesterday. Normal to see this or should I see clearing soon? Also I seem to get.some film/spots on the acrylic every few days that I didn't get before. Cleans off very easy.

Everything looks fine/same so far.
 
Been a week now with vinegar. 10 ml/ day for first 3 days, 20ml for days 4-7 and just started 30ml/day yesterday. Tank is a tad cloudy. Nothing bad just a tad. I put fresh carbon in yesterday. Normal to see this or should I see clearing soon? Also I seem to get.some film/spots on the acrylic every few days that I didn't get before. Cleans off very easy.

Everything looks fine/same so far.
 
I would back off on the vinegar for a bit. The cloudiness might be a bacterial bloom, which are worth avoiding, IMO. They often aren't destructive, though.
 
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