luther1200
Premium Member
Whats very cool? I thought you just said looking at nog shots was the dumbest thing you could do to rate a skimmer or pump ??
Bubble blaster vs Askoll pumps?
- Thread starter plancton
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Whats very cool? I thought you just said looking at nog shots was the dumbest thing you could do to rate a skimmer or pump ??
Garage1217
GET OFF MY LAWN
Yeah, it is the dumbest, I will stand by that 
Pics of fish poo & other organics do not do much for me haha. I said "cool" because the person is running a bb3000 on an MSX200 body which is the same exact thing I plan to do with my msx200
Pics of fish poo & other organics do not do much for me haha. I said "cool" because the person is running a bb3000 on an MSX200 body which is the same exact thing I plan to do with my msx200
2dawghouse
New member
The MSX 200 with BB3000, is that an after market mod or something marine solutions is doing now?
tpenn187
New member
look at all the askoll fanboys!:love2:. but seriously i have seen the bb3000 in action on a msx extreme 200. when i hooked up my dwyer to it to see what it was pulling, it was only 45scfh. but keep in mind that the pump is not designed to run on these bodies, the union that you use restricts the flow a little bit. enough to lower the numbers a bit, but i still dont think that it will pull quite what they say it will. they do pull less watts than the askol pumps, so yes they will put less heat into the tank . keep in mind that when askol pumps were first put on the market they had to prove themselvs, i feel that the bb pumps will have no problem proving that they can perform. i cant wait to save up my money to get the 5000 for my extreme 250 skimmer!
. keep in mind that when askol pumps were first put on the market they had to prove themselvs, i feel that the bb pumps will have no problem proving that they can perform. i cant wait to save up my money to get the 5000 for my extreme 250 skimmer!
Reefobsession
New member
Note, I said mini airstar. Mini airstar has a custom volute that takes care of the rotaional issue. It also helps elliminate startup issues. I agree I really hate the stock sicce with no custom volute. My last choice. I would rather have a sedra over a psk2500. I own an alpha 170 right now, and the red draggon is a great pump. Best I have ever owned. And it should since it cost $400. Bubble blasters look promising, but you do have to agree we have no idea how long they will last.
Reefobsession
New member
Dude you really have no where to talk, I don't know who said this, but as far as I am concerned you lack a lot of knowledge on skimmers.
Reefobsession
New member
MSX200 W/ Bubble Blaster 3000
Only mod is a gate valve.
205.00 - 3 yr warranty.
Gotta give it some credit.
Looks great. I am glas to see that it works for you. Looks like everyone is happy so far, so you made a good decision. Sorry if I came across as a askol gurue. I am just biased due to expereience. I have had numerous sicce pumps. None are the same. I will never own one again unless it is a airstar or a tunze. I am all for askol/red dragon for now. Maybe I will have a BB in the future, just want to give it more R&D time.
JonnyD91
New member
I took a chance on it. My Sicce broke a shaft and i had been eyeing this.
Just changing out th epump produced more skimmate than the sicce did. It seemed that after a few days the sicce just stopped producing.
I picked up a SRO 5000 Int with BB5000 at Thanks Giving.
I've been in this a long time and this is the best skimmer I've ever had/seen.
1. It is NOT dead silent, but is very quiet especially comparred to the old days of high pressure external pumps and becketts! Interestingly, a fair amount of the noise / vibration comes from the collection cut cap/top and how it is sitting.
2. I had MORE THAN ONE person with lots of Red Dragon/ Askol / Jetstream pumps complain to me about heat transfer with these pumps. A watt is a watt but there can be HUGE differences still in amount of heat transfer. Anyone here every used the old, low watt, quiet Velocity T-4 pumps? Low watt, external, quiet and transferred heat like an open flame!
3. someone asked about size, It's roughly 9" x 5" x 6" tall WITH the venturi adaptor piece attached to the intake.
Are there better skimmers out there, most likely, quieter--for sure, less heat---I don't think so. I paid $449.00 delivered.
Todd
I've been in this a long time and this is the best skimmer I've ever had/seen.
1. It is NOT dead silent, but is very quiet especially comparred to the old days of high pressure external pumps and becketts! Interestingly, a fair amount of the noise / vibration comes from the collection cut cap/top and how it is sitting.
2. I had MORE THAN ONE person with lots of Red Dragon/ Askol / Jetstream pumps complain to me about heat transfer with these pumps. A watt is a watt but there can be HUGE differences still in amount of heat transfer. Anyone here every used the old, low watt, quiet Velocity T-4 pumps? Low watt, external, quiet and transferred heat like an open flame!
3. someone asked about size, It's roughly 9" x 5" x 6" tall WITH the venturi adaptor piece attached to the intake.
Are there better skimmers out there, most likely, quieter--for sure, less heat---I don't think so. I paid $449.00 delivered.
Todd
I use a T4, which is a 140W water cooled pump. It will put in as much heat as any other 140W pump that is water cooled. Askoll 1500 based skimmer pumps range from low 30s to mid 70s in power draw depending on the mfgr and model of the skimmer pump. They will add that much heat. A 50W BB pump will also add the amount of heat that is equivalent to the power draw. A submerged, water cooled pump transfers 100% of the heat to the water. Where else would it go?
Some pumps will run hotter with air mixed in or head pressure added while others don't seem to do the same thing. I'm not sure if it's friction or additional power draw, but it happens.
I've never has any pump that seemed to transfer heat like a T4 possibly due to internal pumps not generally pulling 140W. A friend and I also both had our T4's lock up and burn out at almost exactly 1 year each. These were older and possibly they've changed them some. Mostly I think it was just from very tight tolerances so they probably just need to be cleaned more often then some others. They ARE super quiet though and small.
Todd
I've never has any pump that seemed to transfer heat like a T4 possibly due to internal pumps not generally pulling 140W. A friend and I also both had our T4's lock up and burn out at almost exactly 1 year each. These were older and possibly they've changed them some. Mostly I think it was just from very tight tolerances so they probably just need to be cleaned more often then some others. They ARE super quiet though and small.
Todd
sjm817 is compleatly right. if you have any pump in the water whatever the wattage is in that pump it is going to transfer that much heat to your tank. that is just how it is. there is no way a a submersible pump can run at 70 watts but put less than 70watts of heat back in to the water. like sjm817 said there is no were for it to go.
i run an swc askoll on my 250A and love the pump. dead quiet and great performance and yes this does put off more heat than my previous skimmer pump but i also run t5s on my 200 gallon system so for me heat is the last thing i am worried about. i actually like the heat given off cause it is free heat. just that much less my heaters have to run.
each system is different and just depends on what you need. for me i needed a pump that was dead quiet cause my tank is in my living room 5 feet from my couch and i did not want to hear a pump running all day and night. i did see a bubble blaster 3000 in person running and it seemed to do a good job but it was 5 times louder than an askoll that is why i went that route.
please keep us posted on performance on the new bb 5000 though cause we are all interested in knowing how this thing performs long term. good luck
i run an swc askoll on my 250A and love the pump. dead quiet and great performance and yes this does put off more heat than my previous skimmer pump but i also run t5s on my 200 gallon system so for me heat is the last thing i am worried about. i actually like the heat given off cause it is free heat. just that much less my heaters have to run.
each system is different and just depends on what you need. for me i needed a pump that was dead quiet cause my tank is in my living room 5 feet from my couch and i did not want to hear a pump running all day and night. i did see a bubble blaster 3000 in person running and it seemed to do a good job but it was 5 times louder than an askoll that is why i went that route.
please keep us posted on performance on the new bb 5000 though cause we are all interested in knowing how this thing performs long term. good luck
140W pump adds 140W worth of heat. 50W pump adds 50W, 75W adds 75W. Its pretty simple. Head usually decreases flow and power use and wattage.
I intentionally use the T4 because of the heat it adds compared to an air cooled pump. It cuts down on the amount of time my heaters need to run, saving me electricity and $.
I've had 4 different skimmer setups in the system and none of them made any noticeable difference one way or another as far as heat goes.
I intentionally use the T4 because of the heat it adds compared to an air cooled pump. It cuts down on the amount of time my heaters need to run, saving me electricity and $.
I've had 4 different skimmer setups in the system and none of them made any noticeable difference one way or another as far as heat goes.
flipteg
New member
while i agree that a watt is a watt, i'm not quite sure what you all are saying, but a 70 watt pump will not transfer 70 watts worth of energy as heat... while some of that energy do come out as heat (as there are no 100% efficiency pumps), most of that energy is used up to move water... if a pump is generating 70 watts worth of heat, then where does the energy comes from to actually move water...? and with what you're suggesting, what is the difference between a 70 watt water pump and a 70 watt water heater...
Yes, a 70W pump does make 70W worth of heat. Its called the law of conservation of energy. All energy is eventually heat including that used to move water. There have been many very long threads on this subject, but it boils down to the laws of physics. A 70W heater and a 70W submerged pump will heat the water the same.
flipteg
New member
you're right, law of conservation of energy, but heat is not energy... heat is just one way of transferring energy... even if it is assumed that a hypothetical isolated aquarium conserves it's energy, given over time, why is it automatically assumed that all that potential energy will be stored as heat... the electric shock that some people experience when they touch the water in their aquarium is just one way i can think of...
heat along with work are just processes of transferring energy... a heater transfers the energy it receives from electricity via heat to the water... a pump is using the energy it receives from electricity to do mechanical work on the water...
even if it is assumed that "eventually", all potential energy in an isolated tank will be stored as heat (forgetting the effects of gravity and the water's mechanical potential energy caused by the pump), a pump will take longer to reach that conclusion compared to a same wattage heater... if all you're concerned about is heat, then theoretically, even a 5 watt pump will eventually boil water in an isolated 200 gallon tank given the energy used to run that 5 watt pump continously...
but since there is no such thing as an isolated body, the longer amount of time it will take for a pump to "eventually" build up the same amount of heat in the system as an equivalent wattage heater, external variable would have already acted on the system to transfer energy out of the tank... which is why i think a 70 watt pump will never have the same effect as a 70 watt heater...
heat along with work are just processes of transferring energy... a heater transfers the energy it receives from electricity via heat to the water... a pump is using the energy it receives from electricity to do mechanical work on the water...
even if it is assumed that "eventually", all potential energy in an isolated tank will be stored as heat (forgetting the effects of gravity and the water's mechanical potential energy caused by the pump), a pump will take longer to reach that conclusion compared to a same wattage heater... if all you're concerned about is heat, then theoretically, even a 5 watt pump will eventually boil water in an isolated 200 gallon tank given the energy used to run that 5 watt pump continously...
but since there is no such thing as an isolated body, the longer amount of time it will take for a pump to "eventually" build up the same amount of heat in the system as an equivalent wattage heater, external variable would have already acted on the system to transfer energy out of the tank... which is why i think a 70 watt pump will never have the same effect as a 70 watt heater...
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flipteg
New member
i guess what i'm trying to say is, again, assuming all energy inputted to a tank will end up as potential heat, a less efficient pump will give off more heat NOW while a more efficient pump will give off more work in moving the water and will take longer to "eventually" build up all the potential heat that is assumed it will end up as... in which case external variable would have already acted on it to dissipate the heat...
JonnyD91
New member
kinda like the efficency of a furnace
This has been gone through many times on this forum and it usually winds up being 10 pages long discussing it. It always winds up the same. Its a difficult concept, but that is the way the physics work. All energy is heat. A 70W heater is 70W of heat. A pump using 70W of energy makes 70W of heat even though some of the work is to move water (which makes heat). An external pump that is air cooled still makes the same amount of heat, but some of that heat is obviously transferred to the air. A submerged pump transfers the energy to the water.
Back to the subject at hand, a 50W BB, 50W Askoll, 50W Eheim are all 50W and make the same 50W of heat.
Back to the subject at hand, a 50W BB, 50W Askoll, 50W Eheim are all 50W and make the same 50W of heat.
flipteg
New member
indeed it is a difficult concept to understand and i still fail to see where in physics state that heat is the only form of energy...
six forms of energy are thermal, electrical, nuclear, mechanical, chemical, and radiant energy... heat is not even part of that...
you've already made up your mind on what you want to believe and that's fine... i just find the statement "all energy is heat" to be quite weird...
six forms of energy are thermal, electrical, nuclear, mechanical, chemical, and radiant energy... heat is not even part of that...
you've already made up your mind on what you want to believe and that's fine... i just find the statement "all energy is heat" to be quite weird...
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