Butterflytown - 240 FOWLR

I have to admit that I really am tempted to try one of these corallivores with LRS in hand :)

I've been thinking the same thing with the logic they're unfortunately doomed & I could give them a better life than the LFS can. If you can baby sit them, it could be a learning experience if anything.

Now we are starting to think alike. I know Michael is getting in some Lavartus and Meyers on Wednesday, depending on what sizes he gets in I may have to try my luck at one. I'm Anxtiously awaiting the arrival of Matts to see how things go
 
Ok, before things get out of hand here, and we all start buying corallivores, let me make a couple comments.

And the big caveat, it's all based on hobbyist experience, I am by no means a biologist or marine biologist.

I think within the term corallivores, there seem to be tiers of difficulty.

I'm going to group them into three tiers, 1 - 3

Tier I
Take for instance the my Flavirostris and Rainforidi. Both have been labeled corallivores, yet they have taken to pretty much all prepared foods and are fat, happy and thriving. I know others, specifically Peter have had similar experiences.

Tier II
In the next tier, I would include the Octofasciatus, Larvatus, and Baronessa's - I may be missing a few others here too. I've had decent success with my Octofasciatus, however, it defintely requires a huge amount of food on a continual basis to not start withering away. I have it in my head that the situation will be the same with the Larvatus scheduled to arrive tomorrow. I say this without having attempted to keep the larvatus or Baraonessa's, so we'll see - I'm sure Peter will have some justified comments here.

Tier III
The fish we all want but can't have. Meyers, Ornate, Trifasciatus, reticulatus, Melapterus, benneti, Austriacus, and probably a few others i'm forgetting. Of the fish on this list, I have attempted the ornate and the trifasciatus. I was able to get the ornate to pick at a clam, but not the actual parts of the clam that matter. It seemed that this fish was more attracted to surfaces, as opposed to scents or tastes. It would continuously rasp at the outer edges of PVC pipes and the outside shell of the clams, leaving the fleshy inside completely untouched. I know there is a video on reef builders of some guy in Japan getting them to eat clams, and that's great, but at present, I don't think its possible.

The Trifasciatus that I attempted was small (sub 2") and was a fish that a LFS ordered in. I was never able to convince it to eat anything but coral polyps and it eventually perished.

It's my opinion, based on my limited experience, that the fish in Tier III are next to impossible to keep in an aquarium devoid of live coral. It's no questions that tier II fish require a high degree of care and planning, it's my opinion that the fish in Tier III require a complete genetic re-wiring.

It would be interesting for a person like Paka (Karen) to get some of these "tier III" butterfly fish collected as Larvae and to raise them to juveniles to see if it is truly genetic wiring issue or more a condition of the environment they grow up in.

Lastly, the fact that Kevin Kohen never has any of these Tier III fish for sale on DD speaks volumes. If there was someone in the hobby that was going to get the fish in this group to eat, it would be him.

I'd be interested to hear from him on this subject. Kevin, if you're listening, feel free to chime in. Also, Dayton, Ohio says hi.
 
Is the lavartus going into QT or the DT? What set up do you have ready? Do you have sort of fuge/ reef type of system available? My little zanzibariensis went right into my main tank.
Having not so great luck with butterflies, (melanottus) I decided it was best to get him in to the most established tank I had - observe & feed frequently. Bob fenner has them listed a "poor" choice on the site, but I got him from DD & they did an excellent job of conditioning him!
So far knock on wood he's been an absolute pleasure & eats robustly.

Very excited for you & can't wait for updates on your new addition
 
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If I pull the trigger I am going to attempt a Lavartus and Meyers in my 220g mixed reef that's full of pods of all sizes to at least give the fish something to pick at. What kind of LRF would be best do you think to use with them, reef frenzy because of the smaller pieces? Also I have a buddy locally that has huge colonies of sps that I could easily get chunks of to try and get them to eat as a last ditch effort. I could sustain that for a few months without issue. They will go into the 220g that currently houses a melanarus, a 2.5" copper banded and then the Lavartus and Meyers so there shouldn't be any aggression and hopefully the others will teach the BF how to eat. Now to pull the trigger...
 
For me, I'm using the reef frenzy- I mince it fine while it's frozen, so I can get it small enough for my zanzi to eat in an attacking way. My cb scribby & juvi blueface are loving it too. Bigger pieces are checked out & followed but given up on as soon as something easier comes along. I hit it with selcon as well. Have you found out which corals the lavartus prefers in the wild?
 
Is the lavartus going into QT or the DT? What set up do you have ready? Do you have sort of fuge/ reef type of system available? My little zanzibariensis went right into my main tank.
Having not so great luck with butterflies, (melanottus) I decided it was best to get him in to the most established tank I had - observe & feed frequently. Bob fenner has them listed a "poor" choice on the site, but I got him from DD & they did an excellent job of conditioning him!
So far knock on wood he's been an absolute pleasure & eats robustly.

Very excited for you & can't wait for updates on your new addition

Right now, it's scheduled to go into my quarantine system, which consists of a 55 gallon aquarium, some PVC pipes,, some algae growth and a multibar angel. It also has a well conditioned bio ball filter and a gigantic skimmer.

I understand your thoughts on going straight into the DT, but I think in this case it would probably do more harm than good. I'm not willing to put close to 2k in livestock at risk to infection. I also think that the Larvatus is going to have a better chance of learning to eat from me in the QT system where it's not competing with the other big eaters.
 
For me, I'm using the reef frenzy- I mince it fine while it's frozen, so I can get it small enough for my zanzi to eat in an attacking way. My cb scribby & juvi blueface are loving it too. Bigger pieces are checked out & followed but given up on as soon as something easier comes along. I hit it with selcon as well. Have you found out which corals the lavartus prefers in the wild?

I have the Reef Frenzy available, but I was also lucky enough to get some of a new special food Larry is working on that includes black worms, its supposed to be a special breeder variety. I'll post a picture of it later this morning when I go to feed the new guy for the first time.

At the moment, I'm not planning on mincing it because it breaks up so well as is. I may end up going down that route however.

I have not looked into which corals larvatus eat in the wild and truthfully don't plan to. I won't be able to provide that food supply, so I'm not going to worry about it.

I'm glad to hear your Zanzi is doing well, I've thought about getting one of those before.
 
Right now, it's scheduled to go into my quarantine system, which consists of a 55 gallon aquarium, some PVC pipes,, some algae growth and a multibar angel. It also has a well conditioned bio ball filter and a gigantic skimmer.

I understand your thoughts on going straight into the DT, but I think in this case it would probably do more harm than good. I'm not willing to put close to 2k in livestock at risk to infection. I also think that the Larvatus is going to have a better chance of learning to eat from me in the QT system where it's not competing with the other big eaters.

Absolutely agree with you - I want to clarify that I'm not a tool (depends on who you ask ;) & would simply throw a fish in without proper QT ... when I re-read DD's (not LA's QT) procedure, they've done most of the heavy lifting for me in my opinion - 95-99% of it, for which I'm grateful & paid for. If the zanzi looked bad after a few days it would have been because of my environment. I do follow a QT procedure, but I felt a DD specimen was personally worth the risk. Again, I'm clarifying my logic, not saying you should do the same. :beer:
 
Well, triangulum, baronessa and the like are very well known for only eating acropora polyps, so I'm not sure what they eat distinguishes them from fish like ornate and Meyers. The mouth shapes, however, are EXTREMELY different, IMO. So that may be a clue?

Also, I don't think flavirostris and rainfordi are corallivores.... they are just difficult :)
 
I would say mouth shape and body shape are both very different from the tier II and tier III groups.

I seem to remember liveaquaria labeling the flavi and rainfordi as coral eaters in their descriptions, I may be mistaken.
 
Absolutely agree with you - I want to clarify that I'm not a tool (depends on who you ask ;) & would simply throw a fish in without proper QT ... when I re-read DD's (not LA's QT) procedure, they've done most of the heavy lifting for me in my opinion - 95-99% of it, for which I'm grateful & paid for. If the zanzi looked bad after a few days it would have been because of my environment. I do follow a QT procedure, but I felt a DD specimen was personally worth the risk. Again, I'm clarifying my logic, not saying you should do the same. :beer:

I didn't think you were a tool at all and totally understand your logic.
 
Beautiful Regal! I also have one in QT with cupramine right now, about 2 weeks in that I will try to pair with my other one.
 
So for the Meyers and ornate they eat sps, any kind of sps or just acros? I have a endless supply of blue ridge monti and stylopora I can get my hands on but outside of those two the supply is limited
 
Well, triangulum, baronessa and the like are very well known for only eating acropora polyps, so I'm not sure what they eat distinguishes them from fish like ornate and Meyers. The mouth shapes, however, are EXTREMELY different, IMO. So that may be a clue?

Also, I don't think flavirostris and rainfordi are corallivores.... they are just difficult :)

I just watched a clip of a Meyers & I completely agree! Bottom jaw looks different - for scraping upwards??, unless the camera angle was bad ...
 
Great video Rob, really shows the differences in mouths and how they actually feed. Seems like with a mouth like that they would be more apt at eating larger chunks for food? What a stunning fish Meyers are
 
Yeah man! They're gorgeous. I can imagine in the wild, a meyers approaching an acro & scraping upwards to eat whatever Meyer's eat. In this vid, it didn't look like it was getting enough & kept scraping away at it. I can only imagine this fish expending a lot of energy trying to eat & possibly starving in the process, if that scenario makes sense.
 
Something's not quite right with my semilarvatus, it's not eating this morning and is swimming kind of slowly.

Nothing visible on the outside and it's one of my thicker butterflies. I'm hoping it's just constipated. Think I'll do a large water change and see if that helps things move along for him.
 
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