Can Eel's catch fish disease?

[LukFox]

Eels do NOT handle hypo well ime!!! I lost a perfectly healthy 5 year old golden dwarf to hypo, and my Brazilian dragon moray also was severely stressed by the hypo and did not feed at all during treatment. He eventually regained his appetite weeks after hypo ended, but the dwarf was ruined. I kept an eye on water parameters and every other fish in the tank handled hypo just fine. Hypo was also successful in ridding the tank of ich, but I will never hypo eels again.

 

[syrinx]

The micro scope thing is fun- I used to keep one around- but the kids took it years ago. Basically it is most likely the chromis etc died of crypt or ooidum both pretty much non issues for the eel. One thing to bear in mind- without a necropsy, just finding ich or velvet really is still acedemic- you don`t know if that is secondary to another stress that allowed them to catch it. Internal parisite loads in chromis can be quite high, gill burn from shipping, as well as bacterial infections are not uncommon either. All these things and more can open the fish up to being finished off by parasites.

 

[syrinx]

Eels do NOT handle hypo well ime!!! I lost a perfectly healthy 5 year old golden dwarf to hypo, and my Brazilian dragon moray also was severely stressed by the hypo and did not feed at all during treatment. He eventually regained his appetite weeks after hypo ended, but the dwarf was ruined. I kept an eye on water parameters and every other fish in the tank handled hypo just fine. Hypo was also successful in ridding the tank of ich, but I will never hypo eels again.

I too would be hesitant to use hypo as well. While eels tolarate fresh water dips well (as long as a hour,although 20 mins is usually more than enough) I have heard reports of secondary bacterial infections resulting from prolonged lowered SG. I haven`t experienced this myself though- as I havent hypoed morays myself. Freshwater dips, formalin dips are about the extent of what I consider safe for morays that are thought to have ich.

 

[Robka]

Eels do NOT handle hypo well ime!!! I lost a perfectly healthy 5 year old golden dwarf to hypo, and my Brazilian dragon moray also was severely stressed by the hypo and did not feed at all during treatment. He eventually regained his appetite weeks after hypo ended, but the dwarf was ruined. I kept an eye on water parameters and every other fish in the tank handled hypo just fine. Hypo was also successful in ridding the tank of ich, but I will never hypo eels again.

Thanks so much for the advice, I will raise SG back up to 1.025 tomorrow. I really tried to vacum the whole tank when I did the water change and changed filter floss, so I should have removed a lot of those tiny parasites. So have you treated any GDM Eels successfully? What would you recommend I do next? By the way your Eel avatar is awesome looking:spin1:

 

[LukFox]

I've heard of a lot of success with cupramine with eels (even with gold dwarfs), but have never personally used it. My experience with hypo really scared me about treating eels, so I've just been giving them eel-only tanks ever since so in the case they were carrying anything, there would be nothing to infect. I would use cupramine or the transfer method if I had to treat an eel, though.

 

[Robka]

I've heard of a lot of success with cupramine with eels (even with gold dwarfs), but have never personally used it. My experience with hypo really scared me about treating eels, so I've just been giving them eel-only tanks ever since so in the case they were carrying anything, there would be nothing to infect. I would use cupramine or the transfer method if I had to treat an eel, though.

Thanks again, I appreciate your eel knowledge This is my second eel, my first was a Snowflake and I never lost him. I had to give him away when I moved. This is a 40Gal QT, so I could probably make this an eel only tank as I have another 20gal QT set up in the basement. Could I add another GDM as they only get 12 inches long?

 

[syrinx]

yikes- nothing containing copper of any kind. You have to remember that these are not fish- and are not susceptable to ich and velvet. They have thick toxic mucus,thick scaleless skin, and a diffrent blood chemistry that makes them far less susceptible to loss from these parasites. The only people that will recommend copper for eels are people selling it, and people that don`t understand parasites when they relate to eels (and rays). No offense intended luk-I really want the original poster to study from the experts rather than rush into something that may do more harm than good. Several reputable experts advise waiting at least 4 weeks after suspecting ich to even think about doing a dip- that stress is worse than the possibility of a rare infestation having occured.

 

[LukFox]

yikes- nothing containing copper of any kind. Y

I realize eels are normally very sensititve to copper, no doubt. Cupramine is supposed to be much easier on them and I've read several accounts from other eel keepers of success with eels and cupramine. I would not use any other form of copper.

Robka, that would make a good tank for a couple GDMs.

 

[Robka]

I realize eels are normally very sensititve to copper, no doubt. Cupramine is supposed to be much easier on them and I've read several accounts from other eel keepers of success with eels and cupramine. I would not use any other form of copper.

Robka, that would make a good tank for a couple GDMs.

I think for now I will do some daily water changes and if he doesn't get any better than I will try the transfer method.

Thanks again

 

[snorvich]

Remember to transfer first thing in the morning as the parasites drop during darkness.

 

[Sk8r]

Snorvich, will you be so kind as to add that info, and a whole section on the transfer method, to the how to treat sticky at the top? That's valuable to know, and I never heard that.

 

[Robka]

Remember to transfer first thing in the morning as the parasites drop during darkness.

The light cycle on the tank is 1:00 PM to 1:00 AM, so what time should I initiate the transfer?

Thanks again

 

[LukFox]

VERY good to know, Steve.

 

[snorvich]

The light cycle on the tank is 1:00 PM to 1:00 AM, so what time should I initiate the transfer?

Thanks again

In the morning, ideally before the tank is lit either by lights or natural room light. (before parasite activity) This is because of an interesting observation I found in my investigations concerning the biology of Cryptocaryon irritans. Mature trophonts leave the host and tomites exit the theront/cyst in the dark (Yoshinaga & Dickerson, 1994)

 

[snorvich]

Snorvich, will you be so kind as to add that info, and a whole section on the transfer method, to the how to treat sticky at the top? That's valuable to know, and I never heard that.

Sure. However, I am NOT an eel person having no experience with them in aquaria despite having much experience with them in the ocean.

 

[Sk8r]

Me either, but if you have a creature that reacts badly to copper and hypo, you've got one other med, Prazipro, which may not work; or Metronidazole---which is hard on all fishes, or you've got the least invasive, which is the daily move. I'm not sure I agree that skilled catch-and-move is harder on the fish than copper. For my own fish I'd do most anything BUT medicate: for a fish, dosage, particularly of copper, is critical, and without an ATO on that tank, the dosage is going to vary all over the map, via evaporation. So I think it's important to include this as an option.

 

[snorvich]

Since everyone in this thread seems interested, some more information about marine ich. Cryptocaryon irritans has demonstrated a very low level of host specificity, meaning it will infect just about any teleost fish in a tropical marine environment. Cartilaginous fishes (sharks and rays) appear resistant, but everything else is susceptible to infection (Colorni & Burgess, 1997). It has even been proven to infect various species of freshwater fish that were acclimated to saltwater, as well as temperate marine fish that were kept at the upper limit of their thermal range (Yoshinaga & Dickerson, 1994; Burgess & Matthews, 1995).

Even though they are all possible hosts, experience has shown that there are definitely certain fish groups with higher and lower degrees of susceptibility. At one end of the spectrum are the eels that have shown a general resistance to Cryptocaryon irritans. On the opposite side are the surgeonfishes, with the Blue Regal/Hippo Tang (Paracanthurus hepatus) the "crowned king of Ich." I would also place the cowfish, boxfish, and pufferfish fairly high on the susceptibility list. Generally, everything else falls somewhere in the middle.

Concerning taxonomy, Cryptocaryon is currently still a monotypic genus (meaning there is only one species in this genus). Although, there is research to suggest that there may actually be several distinct species. There are at least various isolates from different geographic regions; even if their differences are not substantial enough to warrant designating separate species (Colorni & Burgess, 1997). There seem to be marked increases in Cryptocaryon irritans outbreaks and mortalities when mixing fish from the Caribbean with those of the Indo-Pacific. It is possible that this higher incidence in problems could be the result of fish that have evolved a limited immunity against their native variety coming into contact with an unfamiliar strain of parasite. There may be other geographical subspecies but no study that I know of has been done.

 

[snorvich]

Hope all this information is not overwhelming. I have been studying this particular issue for a while although I do not consider myself an expert.

 

[snorvich]

I'm not sure I agree that skilled catch-and-move is harder on the fish than copper.

Me neither. I hope noone heard me take that position. I personally feel skilled catch is better than hypo or copper. It is critical to keep the proper concentration of copper and the proper specific gravity with hypo.

 

[syrinx]

I agree that in this case transfer is better than copper or hypo. My only point on eels and the tranfer method is that they are a diffrent ball of wax when it comes to getting them from point a to point b- which can result in misadventure injuries to the skin and open them up for infection. One has to be extra careful- this being a dwarf species makes it easier than a 6 foot green for example. I will always stress though- until a eel has shown definate signs of ich- no treatment should be risked.