Cipro treatment failing?

[ThRoewer]

7 days of cipro treatment now and still no permanent improvement. ,
It usually gets better during the day but collapses in the evening, even before doing the water change.
It is also still expelling white stuff that makes the water cloudy.

I'm wondering if it is time to give up or at least switch medication.

1. day of treatment (29th of March)
morning around 10:00

evening around 22:00

evening around 23:00

 

[ThRoewer]

2. day of treatment (30th of March)
Afternoon around 14:00

evening around 20:00

evening around 21:00

3. day of treatment (31th of March)
morning around 09:00

around noon

 

[ThRoewer]

4. day of treatment (1st of April)
morning around 09:00

early afternoon around 14:00

late afternoon around 18:00

 

[ocellaris123]

Cipro is not a cure all, could be other issues at play other than bacteria which effect anemone health.

 

[ThRoewer]

5. day of treatment (2nd of April)
morning around 11:00

early afternoon around 14:00

early afternoon around 15:00

afternoon around 17:00

evening around 21:00

late evening around 23:00

 

[ThRoewer]

Cipro is not a cure all, could be other issues at play other than bacteria which effect anemone health.

I'm open for every suggestion. The issue I see is that this anemone is completely bleached with no signs of recovery of coloration.
But it also behaves like described with sick anemones - deflating and inflating, gaping mouth and all the other symptoms.

If it was another anemone I would probably had given up already and flushed it. But crispas are hard to find these days, especially large ones. So I'm willing to try a bit more before throwing the towel.

 

[ThRoewer]

6. day of treatment (3rd of April)
morning around 09:00

around noon at about 13:00

afternoon around 14:00

afternoon around 16:00

evening around 20:00

evening around 22:00

around midnight, right before water change

 

[Kearnel]

It doesn't look like it's a gonner to me, it looks like it's terribly unsettled. Some pics look good and some not so good. Maybe doing nothing but providing it with optimal conditions would help it. My green haddoni got a little sick a while back, I just left it be and it recovered beautifully on its own.

 

[OrionN]

He seem OK to me. You really need to do a zooxanthellae transplant after treatment however. Most anemones retracted a little at night

 

[ThRoewer]

I know it's not a gonner yet but today it hasn't inflated at all so far, just bubbled up it's foot a bit as if trying to move.
I will continue treating but getting it to color up will be a challenge. So far nothing I tried has worked.
I'm getting ready for another full water change - at least my corals seem to like the daily 50% water change - all the acropora have their polyps out.

 

[Dkuhlmann]

Might be time to do a zoo replacement like a few of the other threads are talking about. Do you have another nem handy to be a donor?

 

[ThRoewer]

Only a small mini maxi that's in treatment too. I really don't want to cut that.
Would a few tentacles from a Duncan coral work as well?

I also still have some zooxanthellae I've kept in culture for this purpose. Last time I checked there were still motile stages present. I was planning to put those into the tank after the anemone was stabilized.

Today it didn't inflate at all.
Yesterday I cleaned everything and did a 100% water change but overnight the water turned somewhat murky. So in the morning I turned the skimmer on but it wouldn't work either - I feel something is going wrong.

Later I will do another 100% water change and see how it goes tomorrow.

 

[clorox]

I would remove it from inside that bowl asap. You should flip the bowl and let it attach on the outside.
Gigs need flow all around them. Inside the bowl, it is not getting enough.

The problem with that anemone IMO is that it's too weak to react to anything at this point.

From experience, if you start with a weak anemone (bleached and not in great shape) and treat it, your chances of having it recover slim down considerably.
However, if you pick up a relatively healthy gig (colored and sticky) and it gets sick, your chances are significantly higher it will recover after treatment.

 

[ThRoewer]

Well, this isn't a gig but a Heteractis crispa. And unfortunately they are kind of rare these days and then often come fully bleached.
Also, they prefer to have their foot in a crevice - placing them on top of a rock will normally just cause them to move. Though at this point I'm open to try everything.

I'm afraid you are right about the weak part.
At this point I doubt it will even eat anymore unless I stuff some food right down into its stomach. That's probably the next I'm gonna try.

 

[D-Nak]

Well, this isn't a gig but a Heteractis crispa. And unfortunately they are kind of rare these days and then often come fully bleached.
Also, they prefer to have their foot in a crevice - placing them on top of a rock will normally just cause them to move. Though at this point I'm open to try everything.

I'm afraid you are right about the weak part.
At this point I doubt it will even eat anymore unless I stuff some food right down into its stomach. That's probably the next I'm gonna try.

Gigs prefer to have their foot in a crevice as well. The reason for not using a bowl is to increase flow to allow for the removal of dead zoox or other waste. Has the nem regurgitated anything?

Force feeding has never worked for me. They are typically are very weak and lack the energy to process food -- they can't open their mouths to pull the food in, let alone process it once it has been ingested.

Also, if the nem is not inflating, it means that it cannot absorb the antibiotics.

Unfortunately, if the nem doesn't inflate, there probably isn't much you can do at this point.

 

[ThRoewer]

It inflated today after I added a second pump with a mechanical filter.

I don't think the skimmer is removing the cipro as it doesn't skim anything besides tiny amounts of anemone slime when I turn it on during the day. So tonight I will leave the skimmer on, to ensure oxygen saturation.

Since it is inflated now I will skip the water change tonight and see how it looks tomorrow morning. I will still dose cipro

I also flipped the bowl over, let's see if it stays on top of it.

It regurgitates several times over the treatment some white slime (or some of it's intestines - hard to tell the difference).

The biggest issue is how to get it to take up new zooxanthellae. Anyone ever tried injections?

 

[DasCamel]

It inflated today after I added a second pump with a mechanical filter.

I don't think the skimmer is removing the cipro as it doesn't skim anything besides tiny amounts of anemone slime when I turn it on during the day. So tonight I will leave the skimmer on, to ensure oxygen saturation.

Since it is inflated now I will skip the water change tonight and see how it looks tomorrow morning. I will still dose cipro

I also flipped the bowl over, let's see if it stays on top of it.

It regurgitates several times over the treatment some white slime (or some of it's intestines - hard to tell the difference).

The biggest issue is how to get it to take up new zooxanthellae. Anyone ever tried injections?

I always assumed it was done by injections? It's not?

 

[ThRoewer]

I always assumed it was done by injections? It's not?

No, normally it's done by proximity contact or feeding a couple of tentacles.


The anemone seems a bit more stable now but still has its mouth open.
I skipped another water change and just redosed cipro again.
Let's see how it looks tomorrow morning. The mini maxi carpet I have in the same tank seems to be completely stable. I positioned its cup so that the crispa would touch it in the hope some zooxanthellae jump over. Let's see.
I kind of feel the crispa is as good as it will get without food and zoox.

I will see if I find tomorrow the time to process and upload more pictures.

 

[DasCamel]

I've got a bleached bubbletip that hasn't gotten better after a few months, may try injecting this week. It's really not close to the Nems.

I had a bleached Crispa, not ill that recovered quickly from being bleached. They seem fairly hardy, but the BTA breaks that theory being hardy also.

 

[clorox]

Well, this isn't a gig but a Heteractis crispa. And unfortunately they are kind of rare these days and then often come fully bleached.
Also, they prefer to have their foot in a crevice - placing them on top of a rock will normally just cause them to move. Though at this point I'm open to try everything.

I'm afraid you are right about the weak part.
At this point I doubt it will even eat anymore unless I stuff some food right down into its stomach. That's probably the next I'm gonna try.

Oops, sorry I missed that part while I was using tapatalk on my phone. The small photos made it look like a very bleached gig.
I once too tried to rescue a bleached white crispa, but it didn't make it as it was too far gone from day one. I agree, they are rare to come by.