Clown Birth Defects

[brians_224]

Thanks for your time.

I receveived a Black Ocellaris from LiveAquaria.com. I've noticed the jaw of the clown seems kind of off. I don't know if its the colloring that makes it look wrong. The jaw looks like it doesn't line up top to bottom - kind of extended.

What are common birth defects in clowns?

 

[phender]

I don't know if you can really call them birth defects, but yes it is not uncommon for captive bred clowns to have deformities like yours. I call that one "bulldog face". There are also flared gill covers, missing gill covers, partial fins and incomplete stripes. Some will tell you that genetics play a role in some of these things or that it is a result of too much inbreeding, but since wildcaught parents will also produce these defects and in my case the defects went away the more experience I gained in raising the babies, I lean towards environmental causes during development.

 

[superman1013]

I have a small Ocellaris, that has the "defect" as you described, as long as it is able to feed with others, I don't see a prob with it...

 

[brians_224]

Thanks for your posts.

 

[OrionN]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=7894270#post7894270 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by superman1013
I have a small Ocellaris, that has the "defect" as you described, as long as it is able to feed with others, I don't see a prob with it...

It is certainly a problem, IMO. I would not be happy with a deformed clown. I guess that is one of the reason I would not order these guy online unless I really trust the seller.

 

[brians_224]

I sent an email to Live Aquaria. I agree with Minh - I paid decent money I'd like one with out defect. However, from Phender and Mike's comments, it may not be a defect?

 

[OrionN]

It may not be a genetic defect but a defect nevertheless.

 

[brians_224]

LiveAquaria refunded the cost of the fish.

So now what?

phender - if you saw this trait in your babies - would you cull them from the population?

 

[Juck]

I cull moon/bulldog faces. Phender is probably correct that environment causes these defects after the larvae are born,,,, possibly the nutritional profile of early foods (especially artemia).

 

[brians_224]

Thanks.

My ultimate goal was to have this guy pair up with my existing female orange ocellaris. What should I do with this little guy? I assume i trying to use this little guy as broodstock could perpetuate a non desired trait? Would you keep him?

 

[Juck]

>>Would you keep him?

I wouldn't, but then I have juvi Black Occ's out the wazoo.

It's a tough call,,,, I think most experienced breeders would tell you the defect is a result of this Occ's environment after it was born, therefore it is not a trait that will be passed-along if you use it as broodstock. The bottom-line however is that nobody can guarantee this.

If it was me,,, and I was going to wait 18 months for a first-spawn ,,, I think I'd start with the best-looking fish I could get my hands on.

 

[OrionN]

If you are breeding, then go for the very best. Like breeding any other animal/pets, unless you use the very best broodstock, you just end up with animal that you cannot even give away.

 

[phender]

I agree with everything that has been said. Since you asked me a direct question, yes, when I was breeding I would cull the environmentally caused defects. However, people still buy what I would consider defects and it was not my business, just a hobby.

 

[raoul]

I'm not a breeder, but wanted to chime in anyway. If your intent was to breed it and you're not happy and don't want to take a chance, then don't breed it. You've got your refund.

If the ones in the stores are more expensive than live aquaria, you could sell it for a price that would make up the difference and then purchase one you're happy with. I'm sure there are many people who would be happy to get one at great price (which you may be able to offer).

Good luck!

 

[fingerwrinkles]

Brian, as a breeder with a soft spot, I typically cull out the babies with structural deformities (misshapen heads, odd jawlines, partial or missing gill covers) but do not kill them. I've worked out an arrangement with a LFS to take them in and they sell them as "orphan" or "ugly" clowns for a very nominal price of like $5 - $8 each. Surprisingly, they often sell quite quickly to folks who don't mind the "deformities" an are looking for a cute fish at a small price.

If I was in your situation and looking to possibly breed the fish, I'd recommend that you go for the best broodstock possible and do not try to breed anything that has visible physical shortcomings. Although I agree that many deformities manifest themselves as a factor of the environment, the fact remains that this fish ended up with the deformity while (presumably) others in the same environment did not. This would suggest that there is some sort of genetic predisposition in this animal which makes it more susceptible, and thus I would not want to perpetuate that predisposition. If you decide that you wouldn't like to keep the fish for breeding or other reasons, perhaps you can sell it locally to a hobbyist who doesn't mind the defect or trade it out at your LFS if they are willing to do so.

 

[brians_224]

Thanks for your posts!
I've grown attached - I don't know what I'm going to do. My effort to breed really isn't for revenue as much as a learning opportunity and challenge.

I may post on my local reef club.

 

[traveller7]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=7894816#post7894816 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by brians_224
LiveAquaria refunded the cost of the fish.

Then happily pass on the "free" fish to a local club hobbyist at the same cost who is just interested in a nice healthy clown.

IMHO, jaw alignment issues arise when clowns fight in grow out containers, especially maroons.

If all other traits are normal, you may just be dealing with some fighting damage, i.e. a torn fin, etc., which may have absolutely no impact on breeding stock.