Clownfish pair for semi aggressive fowlr recommend

[ThRoewer]

+1

If you feed good food (live tigger pods, Cyclops, Mysis) have lots of pods in your tank and have also lots of coralline algae they will get very purple - mine did. They also got very big and the female is always pregnant.

Also, while they certainly have the dottyback attitude of picking fights with other fish they really suck at being bullies. My fully grown male fridmani always tries to provoke my little percula (still at best half the size they can get) and it usually ends with him getting a beating and his fins shredded. He gets also sometimes a beating from his "wife" when he gets too pushy with her. He's a real wannabe

In an aggressive tank I would actually rather go with one of the bigger and more aggressive species - Pseudochromis dutoiti, P. splendens, P. flavivertex just to name a few, are all pretty ones and better suited for an aggressive tank.

 

[Martini5788]

Would my tank be considered an aggressive tank? With the stocking list I am considering, I would consider it more semi but I get what you are saying. That's why I was concerned with the grammas, I'm not sure they will be able to survive with the other fish

 

[OrionN]

Gramma will do just fine too. I got a group of 6 in my tank. Peaceful but like Orchid dotty back will hold their own. Prone to color lost also. In my tank instead of 1 group they devised to two groups.
My tank is semi aggressive reeftank

 

[ThRoewer]

I don't think your original stock list would qualify as aggressive.

If you go with fridmanis get at a minimum a pair, better one male and 3 females. That will keep the male so busy that he doesn't have neither the time nor the energy to even try bullying any other fish.
This actually applies to most dottybacks - they got a bad name because they are usually kept wrong (=single). That way you end up with a horny guy (or gal) with too much energy and who is always angry at the world.
All the ones I had as pairs didn't cause much trouble with other fish.

 

[Martini5788]

My tanks are fed with frozen or live. I will do flakes or pellets once every few days. They prefer the frozen so I usually feed that. I am trying to decide between 4 grammas and 2 orchid dotty backs. As well as the clowns.

 

[Martini5788]

I sent an email to kpaquatics earlier and I'm waiting on a response about grammas. If they will both be compatible behavior wise then I will probably go with grammas.

 

[ThRoewer]

Tough decision - I have also to make up my mind where to put my 3 grammas and my fridmani later.
Or maybe I just set up another tank for the grammas

 

[Martini5788]

Haha petco sale is starting in a few days.....

 

[OrionN]

So I am starting up a 210 gallon, and I want a pair of clowns. I want something unique, not typical nemo. The other tankmates would be 2 striped burrfish, powder blue tang, purple tang, flame angel, coral beauty angel, rock beauty angel, 3 yellow tail damsels, pair of orchid dotty backs, 3 halichoeres wrasses. That is just a proposed stocking list but what clowns do you think will go well with them? I really like clarki and am leaning towards them even though I know they get mean but I feel like the fish can handle themselves with the stock list above. What do you think?

I would consider three or four flame angels instead of coral beauty and rock angels. Consider not put in the Yellow tail Damsels. They will be fine and not bother any fish, but spawning three or four flame angels is a sight to see just right before the light go out. The one male try to court three females and finally spawn with all three one after the other. You will be glad that you have three or four red fish in your tank.

 

[ThRoewer]

I'm with Minh on this - rather get pairs or harem groups of fish than a bunch of singles. You will have less random aggression and a much more interesting behavior. Usually the fish will also display more vibrant colors.
I wouldn't buy any fish I can't keep as a pair or group.

 

[Dkuhlmann]

Orchid Dottyback are fine. They do not bother other fish. I love them in my docile reef tank. The only down side to this fish is unless you have good water and great food, then tend to loose color. Taken great care of them and you will have a very peaceful pair of bright purple fish.

In fact Orchid Dottyback are so peaceful that in your proposed tank, they need to go in first.

I find this information very interesting and I'm glad you brought this to my attention Minh! I thought they were all bad. So are there any other passive dottybacks besides the Orchid?

 

[Dkuhlmann]

Gramma will do just fine too. I got a group of 6 in my tank. Peaceful but like Orchid dotty back will hold their own. Prone to color lost also. In my tank instead of 1 group they devised to two groups.
My tank is semi aggressive reeftank

Why are the Royal Gramma's prone to color loss?

 

[ThRoewer]

I find this information very interesting and I'm glad you brought this to my attention Minh! I thought they were all bad. So are there any other passive dottybacks besides the Orchid?

I wouldn't go so far to call them passive, but they are more wannabes than real trouble makers.
Back in Germany I kept a pair of fridmani with pretty much all my ocellaris and percula pairs and the fridmani were never the meanest fish in the tanks (though not for lack of trying ) - it were always the clowns who have simply the larger mouths with the bigger teeth :lol2:

Of my current fridmani pair only the male sometimes tries too pick fights with the percula. He completely ignores the gobies, the mandarins and the pipefish.

 

[ThRoewer]

Why are the Royal Gramma's prone to color loss?

Poor nutrition. If you feed them right and keep them in good water they shouldn't loose color.
I have 3 now for almost half a year in a rather small QT and they didn't loose color but rather gained more and the female looks always pregnant. I feed a lot live tigger pods, frozen Cyclops and Mysis.
I will also try the blood worms Paul B. always recommends, but currently have no space for another food culture (my wife already complains that I completely occupy 2 of our balconies).

 

[Martini5788]

I would consider three or four flame angels instead of coral beauty and rock angels. Consider not put in the Yellow tail Damsels. They will be fine and not bother any fish, but spawning three or four flame angels is a sight to see just right before the light go out. The one male try to court three females and finally spawn with all three one after the other. You will be glad that you have three or four red fish in your tank.

I honestly had no idea that I could do that. What would be the rules to get this to work? Would I get them all small? Or 1 larger?

 

[OrionN]

Why are the Royal Gramma's prone to color loss?

I think it is just diet and water condition. You are really doing well if you can keep Orchid Dottyback and Royal Gramma coloration the same as newly catch ones. I use mixture of food, both multiple flakes foods and multiple frozen food. Essentially everything I can get my little hands on. I often fish them fresh fish roe also. We eat a lot of seafood. My family know that any roe we get, the fish tank gets it.

 

[OrionN]

I honestly had no idea that I could do that. What would be the rules to get this to work? Would I get them all small? Or 1 larger?

Flame angels, and all if not most pygmy angels, are protogynous hermaphrodites (juveniles to females to males). There are indications that males can reverted back to females (I am not sure on this) It is not recommended that you put to males together. They will fight and the looser may reverted back to female, or get killed in a confined tank.

Flame Angels are dimorphic but only supplely so. Male are larger, more striking in coloration, more orange with more black bars and more blue trim around the fins. These will not help much if you look at a single Flame angel because there are color variation depends on the region where they are from.

The important dimorphic characteristic of Flame angel is the shape of the dorsal and anal fins. They are more pointed in males and more rounded in females. Do a search on how to sex Flame angels. There is a thread of the on the reef fish forum. I an other posted clear pictures of this characteristic. Looking at these picture you will know how to sex them.

It is fine to put a group of females together and on will become male. If you already have a male, then just get females

 

[Martini5788]

Flame angels, and all if not most pygmy angels, are protogynous hermaphrodites (juveniles to females to males). There are indications that males can reverted back to females (I am not sure on this) It is not recommended that you put to males together. They will fight and the looser may reverted back to female, or get killed in a confined tank.

Flame Angels are dimorphic but only supplely so. Male are larger, more striking in coloration, more orange with more black bars and more blue trim around the fins. These will not help much if you look at a single Flame angel because there are color variation depends on the region where they are from.

The important dimorphic characteristic of Flame angel is the shape of the dorsal and anal fins. They are more pointed in males and more rounded in females. Do a search on how to sex Flame angels. There is a thread of the on the reef fish forum. I an other posted clear pictures of this characteristic. Looking at these picture you will know how to sex them.

It is fine to put a group of females together and on will become male. If you already have a male, then just get females

I don't have any Angels yet. So I could just order them all very small. At what size do they normally start changing to male?
The only fish that I currently have that are going into the 210 are the 2 baby striped burrfish. Everything else will have to be ordered online

 

[OrionN]

I wouldn't go so far to call them passive, but they are more wannabes than real trouble makers.
Back in Germany I kept a pair of fridmani with pretty much all my ocellaris and percula pairs and the fridmani were never the meanest fish in the tanks (though not for lack of trying ) - it were always the clowns who have simply the larger mouths with the bigger teeth :lol2:

Of my current fridmani pair only the male sometimes tries too pick fights with the percula. He completely ignores the gobies, the mandarins and the pipefish.

I always have large-huge tanks. Orchid Dottyback are always one of the smallest fish in the tank. Very striking color. I have never seen them bully anybody but they will protect their tuff, and not get push around by larger fish.
Royal Gramma have a lot of bark but no bite. They often show their mouth to intruders but never seen them bite any fish.
Don't put two Male Gramma in a tank or you will get a dead fish. They are protogynous hermaphrodites (juveniles to females to males) too. In this case I know for sure that the male cannot change back to female.

 

[OrionN]

I don't have any Angels yet. So I could just order them all very small. At what size do they normally start changing to male?
The only fish that I currently have that are going into the 210 are the 2 baby striped burrfish. Everything else will have to be ordered online

I am sure if you get small Flame angels, less than 2 inches they will be all females. I do like to get my fish smallest as possible, excepts the species that are very hard to keep.