Common Misconceptions In the Hobby

[Aquarist007]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=10641147#post10641147 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by fishdoc11
7.6 is a little low but if your tank is doing fine I wouldn't worry to much about it. It's best to treat the patient not the lab results
If you want to get it up kalk really isn't that scary. People have been using it to can and dispose of dead bodies for years:lol:

Misconception:

You have to understand all the technical and chemical mumbo jumbo to be a successful reefer.

Just not true. It helps to have a basic understanding but having a successful reef is really more of an art than a science IMO. Some people just have a "blue thumb".

Chris

depends what you mean by an art--finess yes but more then just having a pretty tank----a good knowledge of coral husbandry is very important.
IMO successful reefers have good basic science skills:
observation--number 1
inquistiveness
basic internet skills---eg using sites like these
labs skills---for mixing doses properly and using the test kits
mechanical skills in basic plumbing, and electrical
excellent manipulative skills

the may not be formally schooled in these but they exhibit the natural characteristics

 

[thejrc]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=10641531#post10641531 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by capn_hylinur
depends what you mean by an art--finess yes but more then just having a pretty tank----a good knowledge of coral husbandry is very important.
IMO successful reefers have good basic science skills:
observation--number 1
inquistiveness
basic internet skills---eg using sites like these
labs skills---for mixing doses properly and using the test kits
mechanical skills in basic plumbing, and electrical
excellent manipulative skills

the may not be formally schooled in these but they exhibit the natural characteristics

you forgot the most important....

spousal negotiation skills!

On a serious note though, most the people I run into have a mish mosh of these skills and rely on each other where one lacks. I'm not exactly a star when it comes to chemistry but I've got the interest and the want to learn and naturally I have several friends with the knack where I fall short.

It's the interest and the persistance... you can see the lack of persistance in the boards every day when you see the "selling everything" posts where the reason is almost always "dont have the time or interest anymore". Most times these were hobbyists who ran tanks for less than a year from what I've seen.

Once your hooked you pretty much stay that way, if your the right type of person!

 

[Aquarist007]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=10641572#post10641572 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by thejrc
you forgot the most important....

spousal negotiation skills!

On a serious note though, most the people I run into have a mish mosh of these skills and rely on each other where one lacks. I'm not exactly a star when it comes to chemistry but I've got the interest and the want to learn and naturally I have several friends with the knack where I fall short.

It's the interest and the persistance... you can see the lack of persistance in the boards every day when you see the "selling everything" posts where the reason is almost always "dont have the time or interest anymore". Most times these were hobbyists who ran tanks for less than a year from what I've seen.

Once your hooked you pretty much stay that way, if your the right type of person!

you don't have to be an expert at that either----when you follow the golden rule or aquarium purchases

"everything costs 20 bucks"
:rollface: :rollface:
except when it comes to the favorite coral they want--then its like that's a lot of money---so nice you care enough about my hobby.....

with the ones that give up---sometimes you wished they could have been a little more proactive on sites like Reef Central

 

[melev]

This thread has been nominated for Thread of the Month. You can vote for it in this poll:
http://reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=1193958

 

[Paul B]

as an educator for 40 yrs I disagree with this statement. We learn best when we are having a good time and enjoying it.

Capn, first of all I would like to thank you for being a teacher.
As for enjoying reefing. Since I have been doing it for over fifty years I guess I could say I enjoy it. :lol:
You are also correct about tradesmen having fish. I am an electrician.
I aquired my knowledge of reefs from diving on them since 1970.
I like hands on experience and all of the animals I have ever kept, I have dove with.
Another misconception is natural sea water. The main purpose of using it is not for the beneficail life which will probably die in our tanks in a few hours but the chemical make up which can not exactly be duplicated. Sea water changes with factors like pH and temp.
Have a great day.
Paul

 

[Aquarist007]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=10642377#post10642377 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Paul B
Capn, first of all I would like to thank you for being a teacher.
As for enjoying reefing. Since I have been doing it for over fifty years I guess I could say I enjoy it. :lol:
You are also correct about tradesmen having fish. I am an electrician.
I aquired my knowledge of reefs from diving on them since 1970.
I like hands on experience and all of the animals I have ever kept, I have dove with.
Another misconception is natural sea water. The main purpose of using it is not for the beneficail life which will probably die in our tanks in a few hours but the chemical make up which can not exactly be duplicated. Sea water changes with factors like pH and temp.
Have a great day.
Paul

thank you for the compliment Paul--coming from a military background as you have---I have the deepest respect for your sacrifice and committment.
My son in law just came back from a tour in Afganistan and my daughter is a lieutenant in the army.

that is a great misconception about sea water---I am sure greenbean will jump in here---but it also leads to the misconception that you have to load your tanks up with phytoplankton to try an immitate the conditons of overabundance of food sources that surrond corals on the reef.

 

[Aquarist007]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=10640727#post10640727 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Sk8r
May I add one Misconception? That acclimation is all about 'time.' Acclimate for an hour, etc., [during which time ph can be a real problem.]
Suggestion: set up your qt tank as close to what comes in from your favorite dealer as possible. Same salinity. Same ph. If the temp is moderately warmer it's not such a big deal as if it's colder.
Test the water of the incoming fish. If it matches in salinity, ph, and temp, put the poor critter into qt. Period. Other params are nice, but I've never lost a specimen where salinity and ph both matched and I got the critter into more water, dark, and quiet.
Just a suggestion.

great points--the build up of ammonia and lowering of pH in the bag is something I really had not thought of but I do exactly what you suggested above.
along this line would it also be a misconception when LFS tell you a particular fish can live in a bag for 2-3 hours while you go shoppping with the wife(I exaggerating here ---and then you go home and acclimate it for another hour :eek2:

 

[RichConley]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=10630142#post10630142 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by pledosophy
31 or so

Base rock will become liverock in a few months

I say myth busted.

The anaerobic bacteria that is housed within tradition live rock will take years and even decades to grow in base rock. The anaerobes don't like oxygen and are not often found floating in the water column so they have no way of entering the rock which is quickly covered by the aerobic bacteria. I never believed this myself, even after I read the study, until i cracked open a piece of base rock that was in my tank for a bit over 5 years to find it void of anearobic bacteria as compared to a piece of rock that was imported with a coral attached which had a large population of the bacteria.
JME

Post actual evidense. I do not have a single piece of "Live Rock" in my tank. It seems to be working fine.


How do you think rock becomes live in the ocean?

 

[MiddletonMark]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=10582868#post10582868 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Peter Eichler
You're the one commiting the fallacy. Most indications point to low 80's being optimal since that's average for the areas where most corals are collected. Do you have an references to higher temps (above 80) being an activator for certain diseases or inhibits calcification.

Here's an article for you to read and think on.

http://www.reefland.com/rho/1105/reefc7.php

Well, many of my corals come from Fiji, as is common throughout the hobby in the U.S.

At least according to Walt Smith in Fiji, the reefs there average more in the mid 70's for most of the year.
http://reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&postid=5089918#post5089918
[and, he notes numerous issues with higher temps causing bleaching/death].

Personally, given his history, I discount many things said by Shimek .... esp when someone involved in the coral collection disagrees. If I'm betting with someone on this, I'd go with the guy in Fiji vs. the guy in Montana.

 

[fishdoc11]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=10644803#post10644803 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by MiddletonMark

Personally, given his history, I discount many things said by Shimek ....

Amen to that.

Chris

 

[Ninong]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=10644803#post10644803 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by MiddletonMark


At least according to Walt Smith in Fiji, the reefs there average more in the mid 70's for most of the year.

That's completely false. Water temps in Fiji are above the mid-70's in every month of the year. The average is in the 80's, not the mid-70's. If Walt Smith thinks the water temperature in Fiji at 8-20 feet, where he collects most of his corals, is in the mid-70's for most of the year, then he needs a better thermometer.

Reference

"The University of the South Pacific has enlisted to help of NAI'A to set and monitor a series of extremely accurate sea water temperature recorders which provide a baseline record of ocean temperature at thirty feet against which to calibrate satellite-derived ocean surface temperature measurements. At present we have six recorders spread throughout the Fiji Islands. Check out the Sea Water Temperature Data gathered since the first year of recording."

 

[ricsreef]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=10630142#post10630142 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by pledosophy
31 or so

Base rock will become liverock in a few months

I say myth busted.

The anaerobic bacteria that is housed within tradition live rock will take years and even decades to grow in base rock. The anaerobes don't like oxygen and are not often found floating in the water column so they have no way of entering the rock which is quickly covered by the aerobic bacteria. I never believed this myself, even after I read the study, until i cracked open a piece of base rock that was in my tank for a bit over 5 years to find it void of anearobic bacteria as compared to a piece of rock that was imported with a coral attached which had a large population of the bacteria.
JME

It is a fact that anaerobic bacteria will spread to base rock in only a few months when placed in with live sand or live rock.If you did not have luck with it does'nt mean that it cannot happen,maybe your system is not healthy enough to accomplish this,but millions of satisfied people have bought aquacultured live rock.I think you need to get your facts straight before making such a preposterous statement.Have you ever heard of a Denitrater?,they only take a few months to populate with anaerobic bacteria and the only thing thats seeds them is the water column.What about deep sand beds?Do they take years or decades to start working?I think not!!!To say that anaerobic bacteria takes years or decades to spread is a totally false statement,unless your system is so dead it's not present from the start.

 

[Ninong]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=10644803#post10644803 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by MiddletonMark
If I'm betting with someone on this, I'd go with the guy in Fiji vs. the guy in Montana.

Don't bet more than you can afford to lose.

 

[danch]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=10597561#post10597561 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by davidryder

Misconception: cause and effect relationships created by casual observation by the average/experienced hobbyist is hardly fact and IMO hardly - if at all - usable as evidence.

Example: I started dosing garlic and ich went away; garlic is a cure to ich (simply an example, nothing i stand by)

Just a quick note: you're not describing a 'cause and effect relationship' you're describing a correlation and the confusion of that correlation with cause and effect.

Obviously, I agree with you're point: too many people see a correlation and assume that it's cause and effect.

 

[fishdoc11]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=10645005#post10645005 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Ninong
That's completely false. Water temps in Fiji are above the mid-70's in every month of the year. The average is in the 80's, not the mid-70's.

Reference

Am I the only one that finds it odd they wear 3 - 5 mil suits when the average looks to be in the mid 80's and drysuits when the average looks to be in the mid to upper 70's?
I would be burning up!

 

[Peter Eichler]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=10644803#post10644803 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by MiddletonMark
Well, many of my corals come from Fiji, as is common throughout the hobby in the U.S.

At least according to Walt Smith in Fiji, the reefs there average more in the mid 70's for most of the year.
http://reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&postid=5089918#post5089918
[and, he notes numerous issues with higher temps causing bleaching/death].

Personally, given his history, I discount many things said by Shimek .... esp when someone involved in the coral collection disagrees. If I'm betting with someone on this, I'd go with the guy in Fiji vs. the guy in Montana.

That's an interesting read and I certainly value Walt Smith's experience in the matter. However, in the last two years since that thread I think the trend to keep warmer temps has continued to grow, as has the trend to not worry as much about small temperature swings yet I haven't seen much proof of the doom and gloom with keeping temperatures in the low 80's and having regular spikes one way or the other that many people in that thread are predicting.

Then there's that graph, which certainly clouds the statements of Walt Smith...

 

[Peter Eichler]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=10645017#post10645017 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by ricsreef
It is a fact that anaerobic bacteria will spread to base rock in only a few months when placed in with live sand or live rock.If you did not have luck with it does'nt mean that it cannot happen,maybe your system is not healthy enough to accomplish this,but millions of satisfied people have bought aquacultured live rock.I think you need to get your facts straight before making such a preposterous statement.Have you ever heard of a Denitrater?,they only take a few months to populate with anaerobic bacteria and the only thing thats seeds them is the water column.What about deep sand beds?Do they take years or decades to start working?I think not!!!To say that anaerobic bacteria takes years or decades to spread is a totally false statement,unless your system is so dead it's not present from the start.

I've always felt that dead rock isn't as good as the real thing. This is purely anecdotal and based on observing various tanks that were started using homemade or various other types of reef safe rock. However, the doubling ability of nitrifying and denitrifying bacteria is quite remarkable so I don't think bacteria colonization is much of an issue, and you're correct in that regard.

 

[SDguy]

quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by davidryder

Misconception: cause and effect relationships created by casual observation by the average/experienced hobbyist is hardly fact and IMO hardly - if at all - usable as evidence.

Example: I started dosing garlic and ich went away; garlic is a cure to ich (simply an example, nothing i stand by)
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

While I agree hobbyist observation and scientific fact are far from equivalent, I don't think anecdotal observations should be dismissed simply because a scientist with a Ph.D. didn't perform a controlled experiment.

 

[Ninong]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=10645112#post10645112 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by fishdoc11
Am I the only one that finds it odd they wear 3 - 5 mil suits when the average looks to be in the mid 80's and drysuits when the average looks to be in the mid to upper 70's?
I would be burning up!

The average in Fiji is not in the mid-80's, it's in the low 80's.

Maybe I misread your comment. Sorry!

P.S. -- If anyone is interested, water temp readings for the Great Barrier Reef are available online, too. In fact, NOAA has satellite surveyed surface water temp readings and buoy readings for hundreds of locations around the world. A couple of those buoys are on the GBR.

NOAA Buoy Data Center You can pick out a buoy and then get current or historical measurements.

If you search the AIMS site, I'm pretty sure you can find a lot of information on water temperature measurements on the GBR. I remember seeing that several years ago but I haven't checked lately.

 

[fishdoc11]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=10645186#post10645186 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Ninong
The average in Fiji is not in the mid-80's, it's in the low 80's.

Same difference...I'd still be in skins or a shorty