Common Misconceptions In the Hobby

[Paul B]

---but could we consider it with the accompanying statement that a general stew, often changed, might be advantageous for many tanks?

I do occasionally add New York mud with it's associated critters. I usually get it when I am collecting amphipods which I do a few times a year. I also think the various bacteria I am adding is the main thing that has kept my tank going. If you never add any NSW bacteria you will be stuck with whatever bacteria is in your dealers tanks which may be very limited. Bacteria will in time outgrow other, possably more beneficial bacteria leaving you with a type of bacteria which is not very efficient at controlling nitrates.
We as aquarists often think of only two types of bacteria.
We have the ammonia reducers and the nitrate reducers or aerobic and anerobic but there are thousands of types.
Many bacteria will just grow on exposed surfaces and not help us at all, there are also disease producing bacteria.
I think an influx of natural mixed bacteria is needed to keep a tank going long term. Of course that is just my opinion from my own experience but I have always added bacteria from the sea in the form of rocks or a little mud which I remove after a while when the bacteria is infused into my water.
Paul

 

[Aquarist007]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=10676149#post10676149 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Sk8r
That's a very good point: I don't mechanically filter either...what I DO have is a mega-ball of cheato that's in the second chamber in my sump, and it functions as a filter sponge and bubble-trap, with the little critters running all over to eat what it traps---and wending their own way topside via the pump.
Bottomside the rock is full of little featherdusters; can't grow them topside for love nor money. So I've got two different environments, and that's probably to the good, too.

now you have really stimulated by reef curiosity.
I understand about no mechanical filtration at all---and I can see the point with that-----but what about use of a protein skimmer---I know its biological but it will remove bacteria, and small creatures from the water column---have you done away with that too?

 

[davidryder]

I don't run a skimmer and I have no mechanical filtration. In my tank are sponges, feather dusters, baby brittle stars, pods galore, snails, various algaes, worms galore. None of which I purposefully introduced into the tank.

I don't even run carbon. I have a 15g sump/refugium & a 25 gallon refugium. On my 125 I had a huge skimmer & carbon and didn't see anywhere close to the amount of life I have in my 90. JME but I haven't seen any negative effects on anything.

 

[Aquarist007]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=10678268#post10678268 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by davidryder
I don't run a skimmer and I have no mechanical filtration. In my tank are sponges, feather dusters, baby brittle stars, pods galore, snails, various algaes, worms galore. None of which I purposefully introduced into the tank.

I don't even run carbon. I have a 15g sump/refugium & a 25 gallon refugium. On my 125 I had a huge skimmer & carbon and didn't see anywhere close to the amount of life I have in my 90. JME but I haven't seen any negative effects on anything.

Impressive: but a few traditional questions come to mind?
are there corals and fish in there?
how often do you do water changes
what do you keep calcium, mag, alk and pH at?

 

[davidryder]

Stock list:

1 lyretail anthias
1 yellow tang
1 orangespotted goby
1 mandarin goby
5 green chromis
GSM clown

fire shrimp
cleaner shrimp

frogspawn
bta
various zoanthids
red mushrooms
hairy mushrooms
bubble coral
green plate coral

Never had much interest in SPS and I don't consider my tank fully stocked. I have struggled with cyano quite a bit but I think after I converted my sump into a refugium I finally have it under control. I probably enjoy learning about the hobby and science more than I'm interested in my tank itself. I will probably keep it pretty simple - I have an external refugium on display that sits on a matching stand so that seems to be a lot of the focus of my tank. My tank is however my most attractive piece of furniture in my living room

 

[Aquarist007]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=10680199#post10680199 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by davidryder
Stock list:

1 lyretail anthias
1 yellow tang
1 orangespotted goby
1 mandarin goby
5 green chromis
GSM clown

fire shrimp
cleaner shrimp

frogspawn
bta
various zoanthids
red mushrooms
hairy mushrooms
bubble coral
green plate coral

Never had much interest in SPS and I don't consider my tank fully stocked. I have struggled with cyano quite a bit but I think after I converted my sump into a refugium I finally have it under control. I probably enjoy learning about the hobby and science more than I'm interested in my tank itself. I will probably keep it pretty simple - I have an external refugium on display that sits on a matching stand so that seems to be a lot of the focus of my tank. My tank is however my most attractive piece of furniture in my living room

I am deeply interested in this setup so I hope you don't mind the questions--I think you do miss out on alot of the invertebrates and the science of a true reef by over filtering.

Do you have a deep sand bed in the main tank?

and a repeat on the above---do you do regular water changes and do you have to supplement for alk mag and ca?

Very impressive and interesting reef set up--thanks for sharing--got any pics?
Scott

 

[Paul B]

I mechanically filter through a reverse ug filter but that is not a very good filter. I also diatom filter every few months which I am sure eliminates a lot of copepods etc. but those things reproduce so fast anyway that it is not a problem. If I never mechanically filtered the tank there would be years of "stuff" floating around which I don't really want in there. Most of the filterable material in a tank will degrade anyway in time and mix with the water like dead copepods and diatoms which make up a surprising amount of detritus in an old tank.
Even though most of the stuff will degrade I still like to remove it occasionally just for the hell of it.

 

[davidryder]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=10680835#post10680835 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by capn_hylinur
I am deeply interested in this setup so I hope you don't mind the questions--I think you do miss out on alot of the invertebrates and the science of a true reef by over filtering.

Do you have a deep sand bed in the main tank?

and a repeat on the above---do you do regular water changes and do you have to supplement for alk mag and ca?

Very impressive and interesting reef set up--thanks for sharing--got any pics?
Scott

I dose lime dissolved in vinegar and Ca hovers around 400 and Alk usually stays between 8 & 10. I do regular water changes, about 20% once a month. The sand bed in the main tank and refugium are between 3 & 4 inches.

 

[Aquarist007]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=10681190#post10681190 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by davidryder
I dose lime dissolved in vinegar and Ca hovers around 400 and Alk usually stays between 8 & 10. I do regular water changes, about 20% once a month. The sand bed in the main tank and refugium are between 3 & 4 inches.

I think you really need that 4 inch sand bed for the extra life and bacteria it supports ?

In my qt tank/experimental/frag/nursery I have a deep sand bed and the only filtration it gets is with a hang on that I run with only carbon---and this tank has alot more "life to it" I have never dosed it at all but do 10 % water change bi monthly----I have often wondered why it does so well---with your setup --now I know.
My main tank was only set up with .5 inch sand bed-- can I safely add 3 inches of argonite to it? I kind of think it is worth it to see the extra life benifits if I cut back on the use of skimmer and filter sock. (I have a 30 gal fuge separate from the sump)


to Peter et all---I don't think I have hijacked the thread because David's situation deals with the misconceptions that you got have mega filtration going on.

 

[Aquarist007]

looking back through this thread is becoming a science fair project -LOL
but there is one dominant theme IMO---that is the role that the commercial side of reefing has on the spread of misconception. This is becoming more and more obvious with the discussions we have had on feeding, use of commercial phyto, filtration systems, dosing etc etc to name a few.
I realize some of you have be a little concerned over the spread of misconception by the "little experinced reefers" But IMO we shouldn't overlook the power of the commercial end of things---I am not knocking any one in business--that is their right to do so.
this in another inherent value in a thread like this in exposing some of the misconcepts that are perpetuated by the commerical end of things.
Personally since this thread started I am ahead:
35 dollars for DT--which I will no longer use
20 dollars for buffers-- so I realize do not solve co2 problems but increase alk problems.
100 dollars for Kalk and Kalk drip---opening windows did the same thing
garlic guard at 18 dollars
1000 dollars for not upgrading by 150 halides to 250 or 450w

not to count what I could have saved on purchasing a UV sterilzer which I have unhooked for good (275 dollars)
and about 40 dollars a month in hydro to support them.

on the negative side I will have to purchase brine shrimp eggs and 50 lbs of argonite sand.

Please note all prices in CDN dollars

oh and when I pass----I have given instructions for my ashes to be buried in the deep sand bed---5000 in funeral costs maybe??_LOL

 

[PrivateJoker64]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=10674172#post10674172 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by RichConley
I dont think thats the problem...the problem is people believe what they read, and then try to give advice.


People dont question anything these days. Nobody asks why. This is a hobby, you're supposed to be interested in why things work the way they do.

I have to agree there, Rich. You stated it better than I did.

 

[thejrc]

on the phyto or no phyto, live vs. dead etc. I do have an opinion (it's an opininon only and I havent researched too much into it other than my copepod research).

I feed heavily with Kent Phytoplex.... I also use Zooplex and Chromaplex the zooplankton versions... my tank does great, I notice polyps and featherdusters alike extend when I feed both... I beleive it's diversity though. I feed the phyto more for my copepods than anything. And naturally I raise copepod cultures on a mixture of phytoplex and omega yeast. When I tap off a bottle of harpacticoids from my culture I am not only getting thousands of copepods in both adult (copepodite) and nauplii stages I am getting salt water laden with phytoplankton. I have watched my corals extend polyps and feed on copepods when adding them to the tank (along with all of my fish, including my lawnmower blenny). I think it's the diversity of having the multiple types of food there that does me well! I target feed many of my corals mysis and baby brine once a week as well (I feed heavy, so sue me).

As far as dead vs. live phyto.... the movement of live may provide some stimulus for certain creatures however in my experience either works when raising copepods it's the size that matters (isochrysis vs. nanocloropsis sizes, etc.). If it doesnt fit in a polyp or mouth why feed it? I've had mediocre luck with DT's and given the price.... I'll stick with Kent as it's done wonders!

my reef club has reefnutrition as a sponsor and I'm actually excited to try some Phytofeast live on the copepods to see how they do.

But most I can say is look at the food chain, corals will eat copepods both in copepodite (Adult) and Nauplii (youth) stages... feed the middleman and you will have enough middleman to feed the upper classmen.... Look at your skimmer, if it's rated higher than your tank size yeah your skimming almost all of your phyto out.... Even my skimmer which is a smaller aqua C remora version does a good job of pulling my phyto out and I want it to in the event of an overfeed. I simply turn it off for an hour a day while I feed, what makes it makes it and what doesnt doesnt.... at the lower cost of Kent's feed... I'm not super concerned at all!

It's a balancing act and a lot of experimentation, I have no idea how to tell if my corals are really feeding on the phyto or on the increased activity of something else when I feed.. but I do have several million satisfied copepods!

 

[Peter Eichler]

Thought this thread seemed appropriate to link here.

http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&postid=10687471#post10687471

 

[Zedar]

Swing arm hydrometers are junk. You need a refractometer to measure SG. WRONG!!

I've owned a swing arm for years. On occasion i've suspected it to be inaccurate (because I've been told that they aren't reliable) so on those occasions I've compared it to a refractometer.
In every instance the swing arm was dead on.

Soak them in DI water to keep them clean, make sure theres no bubbles on the arm when you take a reading, and they will last a lifetime.

 

[EvilE]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=11081766#post11081766 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Zedar
Swing arm hydrometers are junk. You need a refractometer to measure SG. WRONG!!

I've owned a swing arm for years. On occasion i've suspected it to be inaccurate (because I've been told that they aren't reliable) so on those occasions I've compared it to a refractometer.
In every instance the swing arm was dead on.

Soak them in DI water to keep them clean, make sure theres no bubbles on the arm when you take a reading, and they will last a lifetime.

I agree--I have both a swingarm, and a refractometer--they both measure the same very single time!! I just feel more confident in the refractometer, but swingarms do the job just fine as long as your careful, like you stated!

 

[Aquarist007]

I don't think swingarms are junk-----IMO---its easier for people new to the reef to make mistakes with it.
Refractometers(as long as you clean them good) are more accurate but a little easier to use.

 

[Aquarist007]

I am glad to see this thread revived---I personally have learned alot from it and it has greatly changed the way I manage my tank.

 

[Zedar]

Oh no !!!

An eagles fan and a cowboys fan agree Whats the world coming to?

Cya sunday EvilE

 

[Aquarist007]

Ok--I'll try and start up the thread again

How necessary is it to run a micron filter sock if you have an adequate protein skimmer.
The only advantage in my system , I can see is to slow down the water flow enough to spend more time flowing over the live rock in my sump.

 

[EvilE]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=11088744#post11088744 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Zedar
Oh no !!!

An eagles fan and a cowboys fan agree Whats the world coming to?

Cya sunday EvilE

:smokin: :bum: