Congradulations MIAMI HEAT!!!

Gisho, I am no Shaq lover, but please, your rant comes off as nothing more than another moldy fig waxing nostalgic (and not even that nostalgic, Kareem of the 80's was nothing compared to what he was in his prime). It was teams like your beloved Olajuwon's Rockets that "ruined" NBA basketball with their emphasis on isolation plays and four guys on the perimeter waiting for Hakeem to pass out of the double and triple-team and jack up 3pters. The Rockets and Riley's thugs set basketball back about a decade. And before that you can trace it back to Jordan and Dr. J before him for making it a sport more about individuals than it is teams.

It is what it is and for all the marketing and hype there is still some quality basketbal being played in the NBA as evidenced by this year's playoffs. Dallas, Detroit, San Antonio, Phoenix, and the Clippers all had succeful runs while playing team backetball. Sure, their players may not sell as many jerseys or shoes, but in this day of hyper-marketing, I dare you to find any sport that remains "pure." Star power sells and that's just the world we live in today.
 
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=7600747#post7600747 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by snslarison


Know why Wade wont "hang 81 on the board"? Because he doesnt have to. He's a team player. He (like Jordan) realizes that he cant win it on his own. Kobe wont ever figure that out.

I'll take a guy who brings out the best in other players and still scores 40+ any day over someone like Kobe.

Agreed. 100%. Wade is a quality player and by the virtue of his natural talent, skill, and desire for his TEAM to win, will become a great leader. He doesn't care about scoring titles. He cares about his TEAM winning. I actually have the same hopes for LeBron. I see that potential in him as he matures and starts making better decisions with the ball.
 
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=7599516#post7599516 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by turtlespd
^^lol thats funny, take a chill pill while your at it. People are just voicing their opinions. There is no reason to get frustrated over our simple minded thoughts.

Now for you to say shaq has no skill, you being very bias. He has great skill but just not over all and in the areas you feel are important. To be his size and move at that speed and have a nice little hook. Some skill must be involved. Everyone here can and is willing to admit that Kareem say had a pretty skill full shot. Half of shaqs points comes from some type of hook, do you agree? If not please do watch a game a take notes. His other points consist of yes backing down players and one or two free throws,lol. Being a person of his size and able to play at a NBA pace does take practice and skills.

Ok, so they wont guard Shaq 10ft away from the rim, SO? Last timei checked most centers dont shoot from 10ft away. I dont even think you really follow or understand basketball. So with this interpritation your telling me Ben Wallace has not Skills? LOL what a joke. Ben is considered a remarkable player. He doesnt score, he cant shoot or even catch the ball in some cases but he can do only one thing, Defense!

I give up, Good Night!...just messing!

Just like i hate KObe, atleast i give credit where credit is due. Please give Shaq credit where credit is due. He is that good and he is that dominant. Dont let your opinons blind you!

Sorry Turtle, was on a rant last night. Up with the tank till almost 4 am last night. I was, self-admittedly, ranting. You make a lot of good points. I do not take away that Shaq, besides his huge size, does have some skills. He is actually a good passer out of the double-team, and he is quite nimble and has good foot-work for such a big man. But what I was contesting, or protesting if you'd like, was the comment that he is "the Best Center Ever".

As far as your comparison/correlation with Ben Wallace, I agree that he too is very 1 dimensional, but I guess I just have a personal appreciation for the 1 skill he excells at, which is so rare and hard to come by nowadays; DEFENSE. And clean, within the rules, DEFENSE at that. Loved the moment in the Heat-Pistons series when he snuffed Shaq so cleanly and sent him to the foor on his back. Loved it!

Again my apologies and as you, I am just expressing my opinions, however passionate they may be.

But, be careful here with these statements: "I dont even think you really follow or understand basketball" and "If not please do watch a game a take notes.". You really have no idea. Really.

But, it's all good! Take care.:)
 
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<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=7600747#post7600747 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by snslarison
Lakers should have kept Shaq. Bottom line. All laker fans know it but wont admit it.

If Shaq would have stayed with the lakers he would be 100 pounds heavier right about now. Phil would have had to have taken him to "DR. 90201" to get his stomach stapled so he can lose some weight. He didn't want to be in shape when he was with the Lakers, He only lost the weight when he went to Miami because he was ****ed off. I wish he had that kind of determination when was here. I'm personally glad the tub is gone from LA. Good rittens to bad rubbish.
 
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=7601414#post7601414 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Texsun
Gisho, I am no Shaq lover, but please, your rant comes off as nothing more than another moldy fig waxing nostalgic (and not even that nostalgic, Kareem of the 80's was nothing compared to what he was in his prime). It was teams like your beloved Olajuwon's Rockets that "ruined" NBA basketball with their emphasis on isolation plays and four guys on the perimeter waiting for Hakeem to pass out of the double and triple-team and jack up 3pters. The Rockets and Riley's thugs set basketball back about a decade. And before that you can trace it back to Jordan and Dr. J before him for making it a sport more about individuals than it is teams.

It is what it is and for all the marketing and hype there is still some quality basketbal being played in the NBA as evidenced by this year's playoffs. Dallas, Detroit, San Antonio, Phoenix, and the Clippers all had succeful runs while playing team backetball. Sure, their players may not sell as many jerseys or shoes, but in this day of hyper-marketing, I dare you to find any sport that remains "pure." Star power sells and that's just the world we live in today.

First, I don't know you. You don't know me. So stop with the name calling. "Moldy fig"???? :lol: uh, ok guy.

Last time I checked, name calling is against the user agreement/rules of this site and reportable to a mod.

"Nostalgia" is not.:lol:

I was being nostalgic and ranting. Self-admittedly, purposely and unabashedly, hence the "*rant on* and *rant off* in my post. ;)

Secondly, your example and description of Hakeem passing out of the double and triple team to open jump shooters is good team basketball. It's called PASSING. Those are called ASSISTS. If they knock down the shot, more power to them. That's skill. I was coached and coach to pass to the open shooter. THAT is good team ball. I can appreciate that. I would much rather watch that, then Shaq running over three guys, while travelling, while smashing them in their jaws with his elbows. If you want to compare position to position, you also fail to mention that Hakeem was an excellent all around player. Good passer, dare I say good set shot, decent jump shot, good footwork to the basket, and most importantly in playoff/end of tight game situations, solid at the line.

"And before that you can trace it back to Jordan and Dr. J before him for making it a sport more about individuals than it is teams. "

Agreed. 100%.

"It is what it is and for all the marketing and hype there is still some quality basketbal being played in the NBA as evidenced by this year's playoffs. Dallas, Detroit, San Antonio, Phoenix, and the Clippers all had succeful runs while playing team backetball. Sure, their players may not sell as many jerseys or shoes, but in this day of hyper-marketing, I dare you to find any sport that remains "pure." Star power sells and that's just the world we live in today. "

Again, agreed. As I stated, I was pulling for the Spurs. Didn't mind losing to the Mavs as they are well coached and play team ball. Love Detroit too for their team approach, defense, and Rip running those beautiful screen patterns a la Reggie.

"I dare you to find any sport that remains "pure.".

Not much of a "dare". Easy answer. HOCKEY. There is no other sport that I play or watch that has the level of individual skill, speed, passing, and "team" mentality at the professional and even league/amateur level.

Now that I took you up on your "dare", what do I win? :rolleyes: :lol:
 
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Gisho,

Basketball history has had several players (such as Shaq) that were so dominant that the rules had to be changed to adapt to them. George Mikan is one. Wilt Chamberlain is another. They had to widen the lane to accomodate Wilt.

You cant penalize Shaq because of his size. You are complaining because he uses his size and plays in the lane. That is like faulting Kobe because of his quickness. That is a god given gift. You can develop a certain level of skill, but the difference between superstars and the average player is a natural ability. You cant teach quickness, size, or any other physical atribute. One of the reasons Kevin Mckale was a great player because he had long arms. It was near impossible to guard him. The moves Shaq makes are the same 99% percent of the centers attempt. He is just dominant. Look at how players guard him. If they hit other players the way they hit him, it would be a flagrant foul.
 
yes shaqs size is an attribute, but instead of becoming the greatest nba player by including moves, conditioning his body, and playing defense, he relies on his size simply to win. That is why he was almost a non-factor in this playoffs. His lazy attitude is what prevents him from being greater. Its like a parent having a genius of a kid, but he never picks up a book so he fails his classes. Now we have somebody who could have cured cancer working in McD's.
 
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=7602039#post7602039 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by SCARYBO
Gisho,

Basketball history has had several players (such as Shaq) that were so dominant that the rules had to be changed to adapt to them. George Mikan is one. Wilt Chamberlain is another. They had to widen the lane to accomodate Wilt.

You cant penalize Shaq because of his size. You are complaining because he uses his size and plays in the lane. That is like faulting Kobe because of his quickness. That is a god given gift. You can develop a certain level of skill, but the difference between superstars and the average player is a natural ability. You cant teach quickness, size, or any other physical atribute. One of the reasons Kevin Mckale was a great player because he had long arms. It was near impossible to guard him. The moves Shaq makes are the same 99% percent of the centers attempt. He is just dominant. Look at how players guard him. If they hit other players the way they hit him, it would be a flagrant foul.

"If they hit other players the way they hit him, it would be a flagrant foul."

Agreed. Amazing that he stays as calm and collected as he does after getting hit hard time and time again. Don't fool yourself though...throughout the course of a game he is dishing it out too...

"You cant penalize Shaq because of his size. You are complaining because he uses his size and plays in the lane."

Not at all. In fact posting up in the lane with his back to the basket is what and ALL he can and should do because he has NO outside game. I am not penalizing him for his size, I am penalizing him because he uses his elbows to create space and commits offensive foul after offensive foul and rarely gets called for it because he puts the refs on the spot to make a call and possibly foul out a "superstar" who the vast majority of people pay to see play. I am contesting the prior posts/statements that he is "highly skilled" and "the best center ever". That's it.

Good debate though Scarybo.:beer:
 
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=7602101#post7602101 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by diddye
yes shaqs size is an attribute, but instead of becoming the greatest nba player by including moves, conditioning his body, and playing defense, he relies on his size simply to win. That is why he was almost a non-factor in this playoffs. His lazy attitude is what prevents him from being greater. Its like a parent having a genius of a kid, but he never picks up a book so he fails his classes. Now we have somebody who could have cured cancer working in McD's.

Exactly.

Size, speed, and agility/coordination can not be tought (speed and agility can be honed/improved through training, but not god-given speed like Kobe or agility like DWade possess). Skill and technique can be learned through hard work, repetition, and practice. Shaq, however, chooses to rely on his size and stretching of the rules and nature of modern-day officiating in the NBA.

That does not equate "skill", or being "the best center ever".
 
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<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=7598930#post7598930 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by ezcompany
watch the Worldcup, now there's a sport ;)

thank you, i was in a funk until i got that laugh



that was very impressive what d wade has made himself:thumbsup:
 
Hey man,

Soccer is the bomb! Can't go wrong with watching the world cup. Now there's a game of skill where no slackers like Shaq can dominate.
 
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=7602592#post7602592 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by snslarison
Funny how you never heard the comments about Shaqs weight win the lakers were winning championships.

Ya there was. Especially starting when they won their 3rd championship.
 
the feel of a grapefruit in our hands is the same feeling of a basketball in Shaq's hand.. Imagin that guys and see how many FT you can make with a grapefruit? It is really hard to do.. I tried personally and i shot less then 30% also..lol I play in the orange county league and chinese league basketball, and my FT % is normally above 80%.
 
i dont think thats a fair comparison regarding FT's. Why is it that david robinson, yao ming, shawn bradley, KG, jabbar etc all can shoot FT's?
 
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