controllers - what and why?

[jacksonpt]

So let's talk controllers for a bit...

I've read enough about them to know what they do, but I don't understand why people swear by them, never mind how people justify the cost.

So for the people that have them... Which controller/module(s) do you have? Is it the greatest thing since sliced bread? How do you use it in your system?

That last 2 big ticket items I've fallen for have been less than impressive - dosing pumps and vortechs - so I'm hesitant to drop the money on a controller until I know how it will benefit me.

 

[MHG]

Its on my wish list...

Leak detection and email notification of alarms alone is worth the $500

 

[tkeracer619]

Dosing pumps and vortechs are less then impressive? That is news to me.

There is only one main thing I like my controller for. Light control with temp shutoff. Tank starts getting too hot it will turn off the lights.

The rest can be done other ways. I never plug my return pump or power heads into the controller. If the controller fails I don't care that the lights are off but I do care that my pumps are all off.

 

[jacksonpt]

Dosing pumps and vortechs are less then impressive? That is news to me.

Yep - dosing pumps will be sold as soon as I get around to it. Worst $200 I've spent on my tank. Vortechs are nice, but not nice enough to justify the huge pricetag.

There is only one main thing I like my controller for. Light control with temp shutoff. Tank starts getting too hot it will turn off the lights.

The rest can be done other ways. I never plug my return pump or power heads into the controller. If the controller fails I don't care that the lights are off but I do care that my pumps are all off.

I've got central air in my home and run T5s over my tank, so heat isn't much of an issue for me. I can see some convenience to running the pH and salinity probes, but salinity is sooo easy to test I'd basically just be paying for the pH monitoring.

 

[skibum9884]

I think it depends what you're aiming to do. Different controllers lend themselves well to different things. If you're looking for some redundancies and protecting your tank from being fried by a faulty heater and control some lighting, something like Digital Aquatics' RKL system for ~$100 should be sufficient. If you're looking to control dosing pumps, lighting (with effects like dimming and lightning, which your lighting fixture must support), control of an ATO, controlling a calcium reactor or similar, setting up different lighting schemes for different days, controlling your Vortech pumps wirelessly using many different current modes and more, you could look at a GHL Profilux unit that will run $600-$2,500+.

I think it all comes down to what you want to do. If you decide to purchase a controller just be sure to make a list of the features you can't live without and those you may want in the future. Make sure that whatever you purchase has the ability to eventually be upgraded to make those "desirable but not necessary features" possible.

 

[skibum9884]

Oh, and not all dosing pumps are created equal! I particularly like the Bubble Magus and GHL ones.

 

[jacksonpt]

I think it depends what you're aiming to do. Different controllers lend themselves well to different things.

Good point. Maybe that's why I don't get the hype around these things. Seems like the most common benefits are heat control (turning things on or off depending on temp), controlling powerheads for wave making, and controlling lights. None of those are issues for me. Sure, I can see some added convenience to one or two of those things, but not $250 worth.

Hopefully some people will post other uses/configurations and I'll get a better feel for how these things can be used.

 

[mc-cro]

Controllers are nice and all, but I dont trust them to run my tank. I have had a reef tank for over 10yrs, and have never had a controller. I believe in true failsafes, each able to stand on its own, without interacting with something else. For example, I have my heaters on a Ranco, my top off on an osmolator, my CO2 reactor is on its own power, with a Milaukee controller, and all critical circulation pumps are on different circuits. My main pump is even on a dedicated, stand alone circuit. Only a whole house outage or pump failure will kill the main circulation. And even then, there is enough other circulation that the system will survive for several days.

If one of those systems fails, it is highly unlikely to take down the entire system. The tank can go without a reactor, or individual pump, or top off water for several days without much harm. However, with a controller, should that 1 piece of hardware fail, your entire system could be in jeopardy. If you dont think it can fail, just take a quick look at the Neptune forum, its top of line equipment, and they fail everyday. The probes are notorious for going out, and causing havoc if you have them control lights and chillers, and various other things dependant on temp. IMO, its just bad practice to put
something as expensive and delicate as a full reef system on a single point of failure like that.

Now, with all that said, I did recently purchase an APEX lite. The cost was a bit to swallow, but I am going all out on my new tank, and I am lucky enough to have the budget to do it right now because of some bonus money at work. Otherwise, I would not have purchased it.

The only thing I will have the controller actually control, is my automatic water change system, and all the lights in the system: Frag tank, QT tank, main light, moon light,fuge ligths etc. Other than that, I am not controlling anything, but simply monitoring the tank. I travel a lot, so it will be an added bonus to be able to monitor PH, temp, and possibly even a webcam from the apex. Although the controller will have the data from the probes, nothing will be acted upon with that data, its strictly to monitor.

 

[gablett]

I was in your shoes until a couple months ago. I never saw the point. Had some extra cash and was talked into a RKL 3. One of the best investments for my tank in my opinion. The capabilities of it go far beyond my use at this point. But its nice to have everything in 1 spot. Its not that much money either all things considered in this hobby. Its simple, does what its supposed to and can be customized to your set up. Highly recommended. And no I dont have vortechs and I dont trust dosing pumps lol.

 

[Lynnmw1208]

I'm actually on board with ya. It's just another luxury item that can be lived without imo. I originally wanted one for an ATO, but I bought a JBJ instead and I'm pretty happy with it. That was the main thing that drove me nuts was filling up RO/DI manually every day and I fixed that problem fast. I was planning on doing kalk for my planned mainly softy tank so no real need for dosing pumps yet. My light has it's own program for light cycles so no need for that as well. Also my lights don't heat my tank much at all and raise the water temp maybe 1 degree.

The only main BIG thing for me would be to control some of these things from somewhere else via the internet. Apex has a nice way of doing this and it would be nice to be able to see problems and fix them faster than getting home to a disaster. That would be the main selling point for me, but other than that I don't really NEED a controller.

 

[terahz]

Why:
#1 automation. Think of it as very flexible timer. You can do dosing, top off, water changes, feeding.
#2 monitoring. Temperature, PH, ATO/water level. As a subset here you can add alerting as well. ATO has been off for more than a day, PH is lower than 7.7 for more than a day, temperature is too high/low etc.
#3 control. With the new light technologies you can do things like controlled dimming for sunrise/sunset simulation. You can also control the color temperature to your liking.

What:
I have no experience with the commercial controllers and being part of one of the DIY controller projects here on RC my vote goes to that.

As for dosing pumps and vortechs, the first can be had for the price of 2 frags from BRS/ebay, the second you pay for the 'cool' factor more than anything else.

 

[tkeracer619]

Temp control is useless until you need it. But when you need it and are not home to notice the tank is at 90deg it will be too late.

Heaters malfunction and air conditioners break. My AC failed and needed major work 2 times in the last 5 years. The unit is now only 5 years old. My tank would have fried both times if the controller wasn't there.

 

[Broncos]

I can see why it might not make sense on a 30 gallon. If it was cooked you'd only be out a thousand bones.

If you have 200+gallons packed with livestock the investment and concern are much larger.

I'm building my first "big" tank, a 180, and I plan to use a controller to keep tabs on it via the web and have infinite control. mc-cro raises something I hadn't considered and will have to stew on for a while. I'm a redundancy/failsafe nut and I'm surprised I hadn't considered that before... Isn't there a way for the controller (I'm thinking APEX) to kill into a 'safe' mode?

Matt

 

[jacksonpt]

I get that heaters fail, a/c fails, etc... but ya know what... controllers fail too. There is always going to be another level of backup, another fail safe to use. When does it stop? I guess that's something each of us decide for ourselves.

And Matt brings up a good point - the risk that comes with smaller tanks is relatively less compared to a bigger reef. That's probably a bigger factor in my reluctance than I realized at first, especially considering a $400 controller would be my most expensive single purchase/item associated with my tank. Bigger reefs have $400 lighting and $400 skimmers and everything else.

With all that said, I spent some time last night trying to compare systems and modules. Does anyone know if the RKL is expandable, specifically can it run the system lab 2 (for ph, salinity and temp monitoring)? Or is only the RKE expandable/customizable?

 

[bamf25]

This is my point of view on it coming from a new to salt perspective. If you do all those things separately once you pay for all of it you might as well have gotten a controller.

Tunzi ozmolater is 200
Good light timer 35
Ranco heater controller is at least 50
Wave controller easily 150

so you can easily be at 450 for individual systems

Now I just got a Apex light for 320. Then 40 for a breakout box, and 36 for float switches a topoff pump etc. So roughly 400 total for me. So for 50 less I can control everything from 1 box, and have something that will let me do e-mail alerts, as well as set up other easly safety applications (water on floor switch, skimmer full, return low etc), set up currents (yes only on/off with the lite I know). Seems like a no brainer to me.

 

[bamf25]

I get that heaters fail, a/c fails, etc... but ya know what... controllers fail too. There is always going to be another level of backup, another fail safe to use. When does it stop? I guess that's something each of us decide for ourselves.

And Matt brings up a good point - the risk that comes with smaller tanks is relatively less compared to a bigger reef. That's probably a bigger factor in my reluctance than I realized at first, especially considering a $400 controller would be my most expensive single purchase/item associated with my tank. Bigger reefs have $400 lighting and $400 skimmers and everything else.

With all that said, I spent some time last night trying to compare systems and modules. Does anyone know if the RKL is expandable, specifically can it run the system lab 2 (for ph, salinity and temp monitoring)? Or is only the RKE expandable/customizable?

The RKL has limited expandability, you will hit a wall with it. The RKE is very expandable. Most people here seem to prefer the Neptune Apex. Both the lite and full are very expandable. From what I have been told the only difference between the 2 is the full can do 2 ph probes, and 1-10 v control. Then again the Lite can be upgraded to the full later easily (the head modual is actually the same unit).

 

[preef]

Woke up to text messages that the water level in my fuge was high. I configured my Apex to turn the return pump off for 5 minutes when a high water level is detected and then try again. Return plumbing between fuge and sump was clogged.

Avoiding another flood...priceless.

 

[slief]

Ive been running Neptune controllers for the last 12+ years. I now run an Apex controller and to be honest, I don't know how I could live without it.

First of all, I travel a lot so its nice to be able to check my tank status from my iPhone or laptop. While I do have people at home that can keep on eye on the tank, parameters are key to knowing whats going on. Temp, ORP, PH, Salinity etc.

Beyond the basic monitoring, virtually everything for my tank is controlled via my Apex. I have redundant float switches that monitor my water level and control my top off. I have high water level switches that prevent my skimmer from overlfowing by shutting one of the pumps off in the event of a high water level or when the tank powers up after a power failure. If the salinity is too low, the top off shuts off. If I have water on the floor, top off shuts off as well as my automatic water changes which are managed by a litermeter 3 but that outlet is controlled via the Apex. I have solenoids inline for my top off as additional failsafes guarding against pump malfunctions.

I have alarms and email alerts for anything that would be of concern, be it high or low PH, high or low salinity, orp, temp, water levels, water on the floor etc.

My Apex controls my Tunze pumps as well and I have all kinds of flow/wave patterns in my tank that vary over the course of light on hours with dusk dawn and night flow patterns as well. The pump progamability available with the Apex is so much more advanced than the Tunze controllers and its great for the tank to have varying flow patterns and wave sequences that change throughout the day.

Moon light via led is controlled by my Apex and follows the local moon pattern including dimming according to the stage of the moon cycle.

My skimmer has a self cleaning head which is managed via my apex. At 2PM every day, my skimmers neck is scubbed for 15 seconds insuring flawless performance. I have only had to clean my Alpha 300 skimmer 1 time in the last year and only did that because I felt it was time to clean the pumps. Its always clean and never has gunk in the neck.

My mixing pump outside in my shed where my water tanks are located turn on every 3 hours for 15 minutes to insure that my salt water in the storage tank doesn't stagnate.

I could go on and on about all the things I control and manage with my controller, but again, its knowing exactly whats going on with the tank regardless of where I am on the planet that is most valuable to me. Not to mention being able to control everything regardless of where I am.

In the 12+ years of running these controllers, I have never had a single solitary controller failure. I do maintain and replace probes from time to time and run manual tests to verify the probes are up to par but beyond that, it takes care of itself and my tank.

In summary, my tank has never been happier. My water quality is better than ever with automated water changes and top off and best of all, my tank requires less manual labor than I ever thought possible and I owe it all to my controller and my litermeter3.

 

[L98-Z]

I too love the controller. In fact, it's one of the highest recommended pieces when speaking to a new reefer. This hobby has two sides, the tech side that is expensive but requires little work, or the natural cheaper side that requires more manual work.

If I can automate everything I will. You can certainly do it without a controller, but I like having one central unit that controls everything. As you've already stated, it also works as a failsafe. Sure, it can fail, and the next item above it can fail as well. However, more failsafes the better when you're talking about aquariums. Especially large aquariums.

It's not just the loss of the contents within the aqarium, as we see above by preef's comments, it could easily be damage to your home as well.

If you don't feel comfortable spending money on these units, don't. It's not a must. It's just another reef luxury that may make your life easier as well as add another failsafe to avoiud damage to your livestock or home.

 

[solitude127]

I have a good real world example...
I have an RKE with alarms setup for temp. If temp get too high, then fans turn on, Lights turn off, heaters turn off. One day when leaving the house, I accidently turned my heater for my house up to 90. When I got home, the temp in my house was 89 degrees. Because of my alarms, the lights turned off and fans were running to keep the tank temp below 81. I'm not sure if my tanked would have crashed if it reached 89, but I'm happy I didn't have to find out.

Like someone said, controller can fail too. Just make sure you don't have the essentials hooked up to a controller, like the main pump. If my powerhead fails, no problem, fix it when I get home. Same with the skimmer and/or lights. As long as there as there's circulation, the animals will survive.