Treasure Coast
Platinum Member
It's a hybrid, the more colors the more $$
Cool Fish on Diver's Den
- Thread starter jraker
- Start date
SALTYwaterDOG
Member
Lo Vulpinus
New member
LiveAquaria, wow, soaring to all-time new lows
LiveAquaria, wow, soaring to all-time new lows
OK, hah, so, perhaps a long rant coming, as I'm quite aggravated. First of all, I'm so glad that you posted this because, although ultimately I am the sucker who purchased this fish, I was not without extreme skepticism, and I had the EXACT same thoughts and reservations when I saw it first appear on the DD, I said to myself, "what? This seems to be a juvi female blue jaw, they've made an egregious listing error..." so knowing how fast sargassum triggers sell, and especially an uncanny specimen at such a small, juvenile size, I contacted them about it, voicing my concerns and just making sure to verify that this was not a mistake, well I received this reply...."Thank you for your email. The fish pictured on the Divers Den is labeled correctly. It is currently displaying juvenile coloration. Upon reaching adulthood it will gain the distinctive red tail if the specimen is male or the more subdued coloration if the specimen is female. Thank you for choosing Drs. Foster & Smith LiveAquaria for your live aquatic needs. You are a valued customer and we look forward to hearing from you in the future."
So there you have it, completely verified, well, I was still extremely skeptical, but did a few searches on tiny to small juvenile sargassum triggerfish and found this link from a canadian seller of fishes, Coral Reef Shop (look up their twitter and just do a "find" search for sargassum, and you'll see a couple posts and 5-10 images of what at least THEY claim to be juvenile sargassum triggers....I think they are very mistaken as well, and sadly this plus the Live Aquaria response, sort of really duped me into this mistake)
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DAsPwXGXUAAAovO.jpg
Looks pretty similar to the DD picture, right? so I just figured, wow, this is truly a great find, small sargassum triggers, well, you just don't see them for sale, at least I never have,..hmmmm....WRONG! or so I now believe...
Fast forward several weeks this fish is in my 150 gallon Tropical western Atlantic/Caribbean bio-tope tank...that's right....bio-freakin'-tope, so being as anal as I am, having only Caribbean live sand, live rock, fishes, motile inverts, and macro algae, yeah, I'm pretty ****ed that I paid $150 for a bloody, stinking indo-pacific juvi female blue jaw, if it is indeed that...It's going to be a battle to break down my system consisting of 150 lbs of beautifully aquascaped live rock, which I modeled after an exact image of a patchy rock outcroppings from the region. Guess what? typical of a bluejaw/bluethroat whatever you wish to call these hardly triggerfish, shy and reclusive animals, and the fact that it's female, possibly making it even more painfully shy, it fits the bluejaw character traits perfectly, I kept these fish before in a past life, and they are my least favorite triggers due their reclusive anti-trigger-esque behavior. Now, I know Sargassum triggers are not clowns or blue lines in terms of their boldness, but they are sure as heck a cut above blue throats. I don't know, to me looking at it now, it just seems impossible that the 3 to 3.5 inch fish I got with this silvery sheen to it, with no evidence of black specking on it's side could magically turn blueish/grey within an inch or so and develop they trademark black dot makring on its side and really develop a vivid red tail, etc. etc. etc., So yeah, I hope my ranting and raving ad nauseam has not become to tedious to read, but, please could anyone chime in on this who might have more expertise with this fish? Xanthichthys ringens seems to be rarely if ever encountered in the trade at sizes less the 4-5 inches or so, at there doesn't seem to be a ton of info on them out there, so yeah, shoot away if anyone can look at the DD pics and bring to the table whatever knowlege they may have to help resolve this, otherwise I'm contacting Liveaquaria in a major way, as I'm a huge customer, have been for well over a decade.
(Actually my username on RC is locked out due to my yahoo email account attached to it being no longer valid, and I don't remember the decade old password, so could I contact a mod to get my name back that has hundreds of posts? I know neither here not there for this topic, but I'd like it back if a mod out there could help me)
Anyway, Happy 4th of July weekend to all, I'm up late enjoying being in the midst of a rare 4 day weekend from corporate life, and was just questioning the validity of this fish today and decided to search RC to see if someone had commented on and had the exact same thoughts I did, when tried to verify through multiple sources, and was even reassured by Liveaquaria themselves, only to really think they were the ones who in the end didn't do their homework before even listing...which is...well...just unacceptable.
Thank you kindly to all for reading and disseminating this, so we can hopefully get to the bottom of it, because!!!! noooo more than a week later they listed another specimen as Caribbean redtail, and it looked identical to the one I got only a bit bigger. SHAME! Liveaquaria! shameful levels of ineptitude,....may have just lost a long-time, loyal customer.
LiveAquaria, wow, soaring to all-time new lows
Curious what everyone thinks of this one. It is (was) listed as a Sargassum (X. Ringens), which it is obviously not. Was snatched up REALLY quick. Wondering if the person who bought it thinks it might somehow be special (hybrid, xanthic, etc.)? Really just looks like a pale, very young sub-male to me. Would hate for someone to buy it thinking it's actually a Sargassum. Crazy to see LA/DD get that one so wrong.
OK, hah, so, perhaps a long rant coming, as I'm quite aggravated. First of all, I'm so glad that you posted this because, although ultimately I am the sucker who purchased this fish, I was not without extreme skepticism, and I had the EXACT same thoughts and reservations when I saw it first appear on the DD, I said to myself, "what? This seems to be a juvi female blue jaw, they've made an egregious listing error..." so knowing how fast sargassum triggers sell, and especially an uncanny specimen at such a small, juvenile size, I contacted them about it, voicing my concerns and just making sure to verify that this was not a mistake, well I received this reply...."Thank you for your email. The fish pictured on the Divers Den is labeled correctly. It is currently displaying juvenile coloration. Upon reaching adulthood it will gain the distinctive red tail if the specimen is male or the more subdued coloration if the specimen is female. Thank you for choosing Drs. Foster & Smith LiveAquaria for your live aquatic needs. You are a valued customer and we look forward to hearing from you in the future."
So there you have it, completely verified, well, I was still extremely skeptical, but did a few searches on tiny to small juvenile sargassum triggerfish and found this link from a canadian seller of fishes, Coral Reef Shop (look up their twitter and just do a "find" search for sargassum, and you'll see a couple posts and 5-10 images of what at least THEY claim to be juvenile sargassum triggers....I think they are very mistaken as well, and sadly this plus the Live Aquaria response, sort of really duped me into this mistake)
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DAsPwXGXUAAAovO.jpg
Looks pretty similar to the DD picture, right? so I just figured, wow, this is truly a great find, small sargassum triggers, well, you just don't see them for sale, at least I never have,..hmmmm....WRONG! or so I now believe...
Fast forward several weeks this fish is in my 150 gallon Tropical western Atlantic/Caribbean bio-tope tank...that's right....bio-freakin'-tope, so being as anal as I am, having only Caribbean live sand, live rock, fishes, motile inverts, and macro algae, yeah, I'm pretty ****ed that I paid $150 for a bloody, stinking indo-pacific juvi female blue jaw, if it is indeed that...It's going to be a battle to break down my system consisting of 150 lbs of beautifully aquascaped live rock, which I modeled after an exact image of a patchy rock outcroppings from the region. Guess what? typical of a bluejaw/bluethroat whatever you wish to call these hardly triggerfish, shy and reclusive animals, and the fact that it's female, possibly making it even more painfully shy, it fits the bluejaw character traits perfectly, I kept these fish before in a past life, and they are my least favorite triggers due their reclusive anti-trigger-esque behavior. Now, I know Sargassum triggers are not clowns or blue lines in terms of their boldness, but they are sure as heck a cut above blue throats. I don't know, to me looking at it now, it just seems impossible that the 3 to 3.5 inch fish I got with this silvery sheen to it, with no evidence of black specking on it's side could magically turn blueish/grey within an inch or so and develop they trademark black dot makring on its side and really develop a vivid red tail, etc. etc. etc., So yeah, I hope my ranting and raving ad nauseam has not become to tedious to read, but, please could anyone chime in on this who might have more expertise with this fish? Xanthichthys ringens seems to be rarely if ever encountered in the trade at sizes less the 4-5 inches or so, at there doesn't seem to be a ton of info on them out there, so yeah, shoot away if anyone can look at the DD pics and bring to the table whatever knowlege they may have to help resolve this, otherwise I'm contacting Liveaquaria in a major way, as I'm a huge customer, have been for well over a decade.
(Actually my username on RC is locked out due to my yahoo email account attached to it being no longer valid, and I don't remember the decade old password, so could I contact a mod to get my name back that has hundreds of posts? I know neither here not there for this topic, but I'd like it back if a mod out there could help me)
Anyway, Happy 4th of July weekend to all, I'm up late enjoying being in the midst of a rare 4 day weekend from corporate life, and was just questioning the validity of this fish today and decided to search RC to see if someone had commented on and had the exact same thoughts I did, when tried to verify through multiple sources, and was even reassured by Liveaquaria themselves, only to really think they were the ones who in the end didn't do their homework before even listing...which is...well...just unacceptable.
Thank you kindly to all for reading and disseminating this, so we can hopefully get to the bottom of it, because!!!! noooo more than a week later they listed another specimen as Caribbean redtail, and it looked identical to the one I got only a bit bigger. SHAME! Liveaquaria! shameful levels of ineptitude,....may have just lost a long-time, loyal customer.
Lo Vulpinus
New member
Oh, very quickly, the original image in the post where a user had brought to question the validity of the DD sargassum triggerfishes' identity, was actually the 2nd falsely(I believe) listed sargassum sold during the past month, so someone else got that second one, I got this even smaller first one, and I'll list the image of it that I saved. I hope we're wrong, and Liveaquaria is right....but I just don't think that's the case.
Lo Vulpinus
New member
Bump.
Can someone please comment on whether or not they believe the image I linked in the post above, is indeed a juvenile male blue throat trigger or a juvenile Sargassum Triggerfish? Sadly, I'm almost sure it's not the Sargassum I thought I was getting, but to really confirm this, I need someone to show me a pic of a 100% confirmed less than 4 inch juvenile sargassum, or speak from experience with tiny sargassum juvis to juvis up to about 3.5 inches, as I just don't know if they go through some drastic quick transformation in terms of coloration (I highly doubt they do, but hey, have to hold out hope). If it's not a Sargassum, then Live aquaria lied to me, so I really need to know quickly, because I'm out $150 (someone else got ripped off too, whoever bought the trigger that AuroraDrvr displayed a pic of) on a fish I didn't order, so I need them to either get on it and send me a replacement, actual Sargassum Trigger, or just refund me.
Thanks for the help, I appreciate it.
Can someone please comment on whether or not they believe the image I linked in the post above, is indeed a juvenile male blue throat trigger or a juvenile Sargassum Triggerfish? Sadly, I'm almost sure it's not the Sargassum I thought I was getting, but to really confirm this, I need someone to show me a pic of a 100% confirmed less than 4 inch juvenile sargassum, or speak from experience with tiny sargassum juvis to juvis up to about 3.5 inches, as I just don't know if they go through some drastic quick transformation in terms of coloration (I highly doubt they do, but hey, have to hold out hope). If it's not a Sargassum, then Live aquaria lied to me, so I really need to know quickly, because I'm out $150 (someone else got ripped off too, whoever bought the trigger that AuroraDrvr displayed a pic of) on a fish I didn't order, so I need them to either get on it and send me a replacement, actual Sargassum Trigger, or just refund me.
Thanks for the help, I appreciate it.
OrionN
Moved on
Images of Sargassum Triggerfish including juveniles:
https://www.floridamuseum.ufl.edu/f...=&photographers=&genus=&species=&common=&org=
https://www.floridamuseum.ufl.edu/f...=&photographers=&genus=&species=&common=&org=
hogfanreefer
Active member
Kevin just posted a video on Facebook of the coolest aberrant colored yellow tang I've ever seen. Dark, spider leg markings on one side that extend to the fins. The part on the fins is visible from the other side. He said it would be offered soon on DD.
https://www.facebook.com/search/329...wNjYyYjllMmY3OGNmZDI4ODQ4NjQ3NGYxOTZhNmMifQ==
https://www.facebook.com/search/329...wNjYyYjllMmY3OGNmZDI4ODQ4NjQ3NGYxOTZhNmMifQ==
Lo Vulpinus
New member
Thanks for the reply, OrionN! That's really interesting, I've never seen such small juvenile sargassums as the ones shown in the link you sent.
What I find really odd, is that those fish are absolutely tiny, and they are displaying some sort of black dot pattern already, and even have pretty vivid red tails already. For more comparisons, I'll post 5 images, side-by-side. First the pic of the small trigger from your link, then, the 3 images of juvenile sargassum triggers (supposedly..) I found on a Canadian fish store's page as well as the one from the DD on LA that is a Sargassum (supposedly..) trigger, that I now own.
Truth is, maybe it's not that odd that the images of the fishes that you linked look that way, and that more than likely, the Canadian fish store, and Live Aquaria are just dead wrong, or got fooled/lied to by the collectors/wholesalers they got their stuff from. Either way, these sellers should really do their homework. If I'm wrong, and they are right, and indeed I did get a Sargassum trigger, I'd be nothing but pleased and admit my ranting and skepticism was silly, because look, I've had nothing but 100% positive experiences with Live Aquaria for over a decade and have been a huge customer/vocal supporter of theirs, so I'd love nothing more than for their assertion to be correct, I'd love for them to come on here and contest what I'm saying. The only reason I have yet to call and talk to them personally, is because I'd like to get many expert opinions here first, or maybe someone from Live Aquaria to review what I'm saying and what AuroraDrvr said here on RC, and actually look at all the pics and discussion. If I'm getting off topic for this thread, maybe a mod could move this to a different thread where LiveAquaria could view it and respond, or experts on Sargassum triggers here on RC could weigh in. (sorry for the inconvenience, been ages since I used reef central, so I'm a bit rusty, and I can't even remember my password for the account I have which has hundreds of posts)
So in summary....., at present the situation is that, I'm still not even really sure what I've got and it's pretty annoying being that I paid $150 for a fish for my large Caribbean biotope, and it might turn out to be an Indonesian fish; especially annoyed because I contacted LA and they assured me it was a Caribbean sargassum, so I bought it. It's a pretty fish, but if it's an Indonesian blue jaw, this would obviously ruin my TWA/Carib biotope which has all sand, rock, macro, inverts, and fish from the Atlantic in it, and now perhaps one specimen that just doesn't fit. I spent a lot of time selecting only biotope specific creatures for my tank, and it definitely takes a bit of effort to build a system this way.
Thanks again to all who may be able to assist in helping me out here. I really sincerely appreciate it.
What I find really odd, is that those fish are absolutely tiny, and they are displaying some sort of black dot pattern already, and even have pretty vivid red tails already. For more comparisons, I'll post 5 images, side-by-side. First the pic of the small trigger from your link, then, the 3 images of juvenile sargassum triggers (supposedly..) I found on a Canadian fish store's page as well as the one from the DD on LA that is a Sargassum (supposedly..) trigger, that I now own.
Truth is, maybe it's not that odd that the images of the fishes that you linked look that way, and that more than likely, the Canadian fish store, and Live Aquaria are just dead wrong, or got fooled/lied to by the collectors/wholesalers they got their stuff from. Either way, these sellers should really do their homework. If I'm wrong, and they are right, and indeed I did get a Sargassum trigger, I'd be nothing but pleased and admit my ranting and skepticism was silly, because look, I've had nothing but 100% positive experiences with Live Aquaria for over a decade and have been a huge customer/vocal supporter of theirs, so I'd love nothing more than for their assertion to be correct, I'd love for them to come on here and contest what I'm saying. The only reason I have yet to call and talk to them personally, is because I'd like to get many expert opinions here first, or maybe someone from Live Aquaria to review what I'm saying and what AuroraDrvr said here on RC, and actually look at all the pics and discussion. If I'm getting off topic for this thread, maybe a mod could move this to a different thread where LiveAquaria could view it and respond, or experts on Sargassum triggers here on RC could weigh in. (sorry for the inconvenience, been ages since I used reef central, so I'm a bit rusty, and I can't even remember my password for the account I have which has hundreds of posts)
So in summary....., at present the situation is that, I'm still not even really sure what I've got and it's pretty annoying being that I paid $150 for a fish for my large Caribbean biotope, and it might turn out to be an Indonesian fish; especially annoyed because I contacted LA and they assured me it was a Caribbean sargassum, so I bought it. It's a pretty fish, but if it's an Indonesian blue jaw, this would obviously ruin my TWA/Carib biotope which has all sand, rock, macro, inverts, and fish from the Atlantic in it, and now perhaps one specimen that just doesn't fit. I spent a lot of time selecting only biotope specific creatures for my tank, and it definitely takes a bit of effort to build a system this way.
Thanks again to all who may be able to assist in helping me out here. I really sincerely appreciate it.
Attachments
LobsterOfJustice
Recovering Detritophobe
I purchased a small 3 inch at most sargassum trigger around 6 months, whilst it's red tail was quite pale, the colouration and dark spots resemble that of any large adult I've seen.
Lo Vulpinus
New member
Live Aquaria really came through for me, and once again showed why the are the best
Live Aquaria really came through for me, and once again showed why the are the best
Hey Gar3th, thanks for your reply. So here's the happy ending and resolution to the story, as again, Live Aquaria being the absolute best online vendor of marine life in the entire industry, did everything you would expect from them and even more, to really show they are 100% dedicated to customer service, really going above and beyond to assist me, and I couldn't be more thankful and appreciative to them and the great work they do. This is why I've spent thousands of dollars with them exclusively over the past 10 years stocking the 6 different saltwater systems I've owned, and have to this day, still never used another online marine life vendor.
So I basically was able to confirm based on all the info presented here on RC that the redtail sargassum I bought was actually a juvi male blue throat. Just now I saw another sargassum listed, around the same size; 3 and 1/8 inches, as the trigger I got about a month ago, and like Gar3th just said in his comment, this one had the black spots even at this small size, so seeing the pic of this fish in the DD, I was 100% sure that what I bought last month was not a sargassum. Today seeing the real sargassum listed, I quickly contacted Live Aquaria, as we all know that sargassums, especially so small, sell really fast, so I was a bit frantic on the phone trying to get my story out there to see if I could be sent this fish for free, since the mislabeled one I bought was also $150.
As you would expect being the great company they are, I got nothing but the very best from the customer service at Live Aquaria, quickly and promptly, they pulled up my email from a month ago where I was questioning what the fish was, and immediately sent the new fish out to me free of charge, even upgrading to Saturday delivery, so wow, what can I say, that's really a shining example of fantastic customer care, and lighting fast efficiency that only Live Aquaria can provide. I know I ranted a bit in my post above because I was a bit upset, but I also mentioned in my posts above that I've been using LA for over a decade and have always had the best experiences and always tell everyone I know to use them, so even though I was upset before this situation was resolved, mistakes happen, and if I was only a 100% believer in Live Aquaria before today, I'm a 200% believer in Live Aquaria now. Thank you again Live Aquaria, can't say it enough.
What I found even more positive, was that they were concerned about the blue throat trigger's well being and wanted to make sure I could donate it to a zoo or public aquarium, or another aquarist. That was really so heartwarming and refreshing to hear, because as we all know, the LFS out there (I don't want to slander the good LFS as they do exist and I have a few of them in my area) that you encounter, by and large, keep fish in tiny cramped holding tanks where aggression between incompatible species and parasitic disease run rampant. Sometimes it's not the fault of the LFS as it's hard to run a system of tanks and keep all live stock healthy, so don't mean to bash fish stores too hard, but let's face it, LFS holding tanks are not the best environment for fish, even they would agree. I definitely would never do anything to harm the fish I have, and before I was asked this question on the phone, my initial plans were to sell the fish to an LFS for credit, as it would have the chance to be purchased and find a good home, but thinking about it now, I think for the fish the better option would be to bypass the LFS step, and just find it a good owner with a suitable sized tank in the 100 gallon + range, and I wouldn't even ask any money for the fish, just want to see it happy. Catching it could prove to be difficult, since I have 150 lbs of live rock, so might need to use my Dr Foster and Smith purchased aqua medic trap instead? I Have one but have never used it, but as soon as I can catch it from my 150 gallon system and find it a good home, that's the more ethical route I believe, rather than selling to an lfs where who knows how long it will take to find it a home.
Thanks a million to Live Aquaria once again!!
Here is a side-by-side of the Bluethroat and the new Sargassum.
Live Aquaria really came through for me, and once again showed why the are the best
Hey Gar3th, thanks for your reply. So here's the happy ending and resolution to the story, as again, Live Aquaria being the absolute best online vendor of marine life in the entire industry, did everything you would expect from them and even more, to really show they are 100% dedicated to customer service, really going above and beyond to assist me, and I couldn't be more thankful and appreciative to them and the great work they do. This is why I've spent thousands of dollars with them exclusively over the past 10 years stocking the 6 different saltwater systems I've owned, and have to this day, still never used another online marine life vendor.
So I basically was able to confirm based on all the info presented here on RC that the redtail sargassum I bought was actually a juvi male blue throat. Just now I saw another sargassum listed, around the same size; 3 and 1/8 inches, as the trigger I got about a month ago, and like Gar3th just said in his comment, this one had the black spots even at this small size, so seeing the pic of this fish in the DD, I was 100% sure that what I bought last month was not a sargassum. Today seeing the real sargassum listed, I quickly contacted Live Aquaria, as we all know that sargassums, especially so small, sell really fast, so I was a bit frantic on the phone trying to get my story out there to see if I could be sent this fish for free, since the mislabeled one I bought was also $150.
As you would expect being the great company they are, I got nothing but the very best from the customer service at Live Aquaria, quickly and promptly, they pulled up my email from a month ago where I was questioning what the fish was, and immediately sent the new fish out to me free of charge, even upgrading to Saturday delivery, so wow, what can I say, that's really a shining example of fantastic customer care, and lighting fast efficiency that only Live Aquaria can provide. I know I ranted a bit in my post above because I was a bit upset, but I also mentioned in my posts above that I've been using LA for over a decade and have always had the best experiences and always tell everyone I know to use them, so even though I was upset before this situation was resolved, mistakes happen, and if I was only a 100% believer in Live Aquaria before today, I'm a 200% believer in Live Aquaria now. Thank you again Live Aquaria, can't say it enough.
What I found even more positive, was that they were concerned about the blue throat trigger's well being and wanted to make sure I could donate it to a zoo or public aquarium, or another aquarist. That was really so heartwarming and refreshing to hear, because as we all know, the LFS out there (I don't want to slander the good LFS as they do exist and I have a few of them in my area) that you encounter, by and large, keep fish in tiny cramped holding tanks where aggression between incompatible species and parasitic disease run rampant. Sometimes it's not the fault of the LFS as it's hard to run a system of tanks and keep all live stock healthy, so don't mean to bash fish stores too hard, but let's face it, LFS holding tanks are not the best environment for fish, even they would agree. I definitely would never do anything to harm the fish I have, and before I was asked this question on the phone, my initial plans were to sell the fish to an LFS for credit, as it would have the chance to be purchased and find a good home, but thinking about it now, I think for the fish the better option would be to bypass the LFS step, and just find it a good owner with a suitable sized tank in the 100 gallon + range, and I wouldn't even ask any money for the fish, just want to see it happy. Catching it could prove to be difficult, since I have 150 lbs of live rock, so might need to use my Dr Foster and Smith purchased aqua medic trap instead? I Have one but have never used it, but as soon as I can catch it from my 150 gallon system and find it a good home, that's the more ethical route I believe, rather than selling to an lfs where who knows how long it will take to find it a home.
Thanks a million to Live Aquaria once again!!
Here is a side-by-side of the Bluethroat and the new Sargassum.
Attachments
WLachnit
Active member
Treasure Coast
Platinum Member
cFloor
New member
thanks!
Treasure Coast
Platinum Member
LobsterOfJustice
Recovering Detritophobe
I hope this is just a funny picture but I'm not sure. Looks like this fish has a spinal injury/deformity. Pencil wrasses normally don't bend that way...
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