Coral Tank from Canada (1350gal Display Tank)

[ksed]

Here's the 12' tall protein skimmer for the new 30,000 gallon shark tank at the Warsaw zoo. Manufactured by Sander from Germany.

Hi Shawn

I think if not mistaken the Sander skimmer's are similar to RK2. Older in design. High wattage but more important low air input.

After running several skimmers,mostly high end. I must say, whether or not a cone skimmer will perform better I dont think we will ever know the answer, but ..... I can confirm, based on my experience , that a cone provides a more stable foam head, possibly due to the fact that the water level is lower than in a cylinder skimmer, which provides more water drainage and a higher or taller foam head. Similar to a beckett. Drainage is also discussed in the Volume 1 Julian Sprung book.
Please correct me if I am wrong.

 

[ksed]

I originally wanted this one but I didn't have a big enough drain!!!!!

http://www.rk2.com/pdf/X-Flo3.pdf

Peter

Hi Peter

That skimmer is used at a Zoo ,on a system that is 20,000 Liters.
On a system like yours you could easily do with half of that.

 

[walloutlet]

Peter, a bit off topic here. I just wanted to say how much MORE enjoyable reading this thread is on my black leather couch with my iPad. Quite possibly the best thing for forum reading since vBullentin. Thanks for the pics and the last bit of reading about water parameters is very interesting. As this is the part of the hobby I like best. I do agree that a healthy reef is one that is watched and monitored daily.

Just to be clear on some terminology. There is a huge difference (well maybe not huge) between water 'quality' and water 'parameters'. I have always viewed quality as a the base water that is produced from the RO/DI unit. Perferably with super low, may I dare, 0 TDS and then we adjust the quality of water to achieve the perfect parameters for keeping our little critters.

As always it's been fun.

First post typed on my iPad. LOL

 

[mr.wilson]

Hi Shawn

I think if not mistaken the Sander skimmer's are similar to RK2. Older in design. High wattage but more important low air input.

After running several skimmers,mostly high end. I must say, whether or not a cone skimmer will perform better I dont think we will ever know the answer, but ..... I can confirm, based on my experience , that a cone provides a more stable foam head, possibly due to the fact that the water level is lower than in a cylinder skimmer, which provides more water drainage and a higher or taller foam head. Similar to a beckett. Drainage is also discussed in the Volume 1 Julian Sprung book.
Please correct me if I am wrong.

Yes, Sander uses a venturi like RK2 rather than needle wheel like ATB. I considered the Sander Helgoland skimmer line for a recent project, but opted for a series of modified needle wheel skimmers instead. They look impressive, but they are more show than go compared to modern needle wheel skimmers. The drawings look impressive though. http://www.aqua-sander.de/fileadmin/user_upload/aqua/pdf/Helgoland_E.pdf

 

[mr.wilson]

I just wanted to say how much MORE enjoyable reading this thread is on my black leather couch with my iPad. Quite possibly the best thing for forum reading since vBullentin.

Until you try to open a flash file

 

[Aquarist007]

I don't want to be ignorant, but why are the gloves necessary?

http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showpost.php?p=16683445&postcount=89

 

[Antonais1391]

If you are fragging anything you should wear as well. some corals are highly toxic and if the toxin gets into any minor cut it can effect you. ... i want a ipad . any idea when the next photo update will be?

 

[mr.wilson]

i want a ipad

I want a wheelpad http://www.theonion.com/video/apple-introduces-revolutionary-new-laptop-with-no,14299/

 

[nineball]

Peter, a bit off topic here. I just wanted to say how much MORE enjoyable reading this thread is on my black leather couch with my iPad. Quite possibly the best thing for forum reading since vBullentin. Thanks for the pics and the last bit of reading about water parameters is very interesting. As this is the part of the hobby I like best. I do agree that a healthy reef is one that is watched and monitored daily.

Just to be clear on some terminology. There is a huge difference (well maybe not huge) between water 'quality' and water 'parameters'. I have always viewed quality as a the base water that is produced from the RO/DI unit. Perferably with super low, may I dare, 0 TDS and then we adjust the quality of water to achieve the perfect parameters for keeping our little critters.

As always it's been fun.

First post typed on my iPad. LOL

I haven't been active on the thread tonight as I too have an IPad and I have been having a heck of a time getting on my own wifi network. It (wireless network) carries more security than fort knox and when you can't remember the password there's no way you can play. I'll eventually work it out but until then its frustrating..........

Peter

 

[zaheda]

That Sander skimmer a giant. Sanders makes some serious reef equipment.

 

[t kish]

I think I will be able to answer that after we decide the four styles.

so far we have Style (Grand Master)


Spirit Mountain (Chingchai)
Canyon (?)
(?) (?)
(?) (?)

We need to complete the list soon.

Peter

I think Inspiration Mountain would be better suited for Chingchai

Tim K

 

[digitalchrisg]

I want a wheelpad http://www.theonion.com/video/apple-introduces-revolutionary-new-laptop-with-no,14299/

That was great, I love the onion. They put so much into their stories.

 

[mr.wilson]

Here's a low voltage DC pump option for your RK2 skimmer. As a needle wheel pump the 215 Eco draws 3500 LPH air at a mere 30 watt consumption.
http://glassbox-design.com/2009/schunk-moduletechnik-rolls-out-new-controllabledc-pumps/

You'll have to fix my spelling mistake (b - r) to make this link work.
http://beefbuilders.com/2009/04/16/triton-420-eco-schunk-modultechnik-pumps-5547-gph/

 

[ksed]

HI Shawn

They are called Abyzz-Venotec know. They are produced in limited quantity. Reliability is still questionable. They look very similar to the Royal Exclusiv RD2. but I believe they are different.

What is your thoughts on a full cone skimmer as oppossed to a hybrid cone. A hybrid cone has seams to have more volume per given area.

 

[Mangodude]

I think I will be able to answer that after we decide the four styles.

so far we have Style (Grand Master)


Spirit Mountain (Chingchai)
Canyon (?)
(?) (?)
(?) (?)

We need to complete the list soon.

Peter

Have you considered designing one of them after Pieter van Suijlekom's tank? I'm not sure really sure what style his is though. Maybe you could do a cave/overhang and have all your deepwater corals in it?

How many more weeks before you get water in?

Thanks

 

[mr.wilson]

HI Shawn

They are called Abyzz-Venotec know. They are produced in limited quantity. Reliability is still questionable. They look very similar to the Royal Exclusiv RD2. but I believe they are different.

What is your thoughts on a full cone skimmer as oppossed to a hybrid cone. A hybrid cone has seams to have more volume per given area.

Here is the latest news on Royal Exclusive pumps. http://glassbox-design.com/2010/rd4-dc-pump-red-dragon-rd3/ As a general rule, I wouldn't try any pumps until all of the kinks are ironed out. There were a lot of problems with the RD2 and they were eventually recalled. I know Chingchai has one, but I haven't followed his build thread that closely so I don't know if he still uses it.

In the 1970's protein skimmers had a graduated cone neck where the foam could continue to develop without bubble merging, stability loss and premature bubble popping. In the 1990's skimmers got wider and material costs went up so manufacturers decided to lose the smooth transition. With this cost cut, we lost some bubble stability and overall performance. As these bubbles pop at the straight transition, they cause sludge to form in the neck as they release their protein catch. This means more manual cleaning of the neck and diminished performance as proteins bond with the sludge instead of rising further for collection/removal.

Earlier skimmer design followed the guidelines and formulas provided by P.R. Escobol with a 2 minute dwell/contact time, tiny bubbles, concurrent flow bombardment, and limited air intake to minimize bubble merging. Newer skimmer design has much less contact time due to larger pumps, smaller skimmer bodies, and larger bubbles that lack the stability of tiny bubbles. These days skimmers dump as much air as possible into the contact chamber and allow the water to flow through quickly before the bubbles merge and pop. A full or partial cone helps these less stable bubbles make it to the collection cup before they prematurely pop. I personally don't see any benefit of a full cone over a partial cone. The important thing is that the bubbles have a straight and easy path to the collection chamber. Think of it as a single door vs. a slight bottleneck V exit at a rock concert or stadium. The slight bottleneck allows everyone to get out to their cars in the parking lot without their bubbles popping prematurely

The RK2 series of skimmers are of an older design that follow Escobol's numbers. They would not benefit form a full cone design, as the bubbles are less dense and therefore less likely to pop, that is to say they are more stable. One design issue to contend with in regard to the RK2 is the larger and subsequently less stable bubbles that you get with the mazzei injector venturi valve vs. a needle wheel or wood air diffuser. The shear volume of the contact chamber also brings into question if the bubbles can make it through the high velocity turbulence for 2 minutes without popping. Cone skimmers with high air draw seem to be the most efficient design on the market. To the RK2's credit, the long contact time is better for ozone dosing than smaller body skimmers.

 

[mr.wilson]

Have you decided how to hide the overflow boxes and plumbing yet? You can use aragonite-based cement (aragocrete) to conceal overflow boxes. It has virtually the same chemical composition as coral and after six months of coraline algae growth you can't tell the difference between faux coral rock and the genuine article.

Here are some before and after shots of faux coral walls. The first two pics show Fiji live rock at the base of the faux rock wall. You could treat the end walls as free-standing formations or tie them in with real rock from your four features.

 

[nineball]

Have you considered designing one of them after Pieter van Suijlekom's tank? I'm not sure really sure what style his is though. Maybe you could do a cave/overhang and have all your deepwater corals in it?

How many more weeks before you get water in?

Thanks

Actually I like this a whole bunch. I've always been fascinated with Pieter's tank and his 'look and feel' is quite distinctive. I too had difficulty naming the style but cave/overhang does fit. Let's see if we can move this process along..........

so far we have Style .......(selected Grand Master)


Cloud Mountain (Chingchai Uekrongtham)
Canyon (?)
Cave Overhang (Pieter van Suijlekom)
(?) (?)

I have updated Chingchai's style from spirit to cloud as I believe Cloud Mountain is a much better descriptor for his architectural style. someone earlier in the thread nominated an excellent candidate for the Canyon style which I will have to hunt for.
And we need the fourth style.........I know many of you have suggested that I build my own but frankly that would be a bit presumptuous and waaaaay premature. As long as the general consensus in this community is that the named candidates are deserving I believe we can be proud of this process and their accomplishments.

Peter

 

[Western_reefer]

We need an updated FTS plz.

 

[nineball]

I think Inspiration Mountain would be better suited for Chingchai

Tim K

I agree with you Tim. If any words suits the inpact that Chingchai has had on this hobby Inspiration would be it hands down.

However I think that if we were to try and describe the archetectural style Cloud Mountain would in fact be a better descriptor given the image that springs to mind. His arrangement is very similar (as noted earlier in the thread) to the actual Chinese formations copied or used in James Cameran's Avatar.

Peter