Coral Tank from Canada (1350gal Display Tank)

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Sheldon, I was not aware of cooling towers and read a bit about them on the 'net. Apparently there are air-cooled and water-cooled towers, so I guess yours would be called air-cooled. Would you consider creating a thread in the DIY forum (obviously this isn't the right place) giving measurements and drawings, and maybe a few photos, of the cooling tower you created? I'm not sure what you mean by a "bio-tower" so seeing a thorough discussion of your creation would probably be a great benefit to many of us.

Thx,

Dave.M
 
Hello everyone,
I wNted to share my findings after using the BASF smack s88ci without acryl60 for my project. I used the cement to hide plumbing in the tank, a pretty common thing to do, however I was careful to check pH readings along the way.

It took about 12batches to cover the pipes and get the look I wanted. After each Bach the leftovers were turned into frag plugs where they were dried for various durations and then placed into tap water to let the pH drop.

Plugs that were 24-48 hours showed an initial pH of up to 11.7. This would drop over a cycle of 4-5water changes to 8.9 to 9.4 and if we were diligent about water changes occurring as soon as the max pH was reached you could drop to this level in 24hours or less. To further reduce the pH to less than 8.5 took on average 5 days changing water once or twice a day. This likely could have been faster if we were more diligent with changes.

Plugs that were allowed to sit for 7 or more days and cure (partial cure as full cure occurs in 30 days) would show and initial max pH of 9.4 or less. Water changes would drop the pH to 8.7 to 8.4 within 3 days (-again I quite our style of diligence ) and sighing 5 days the plugs would raise the pH to 8.2 to 8.4 max and we stopped testing.

Hardness increased in a linear fashion from 48 hours to 5days. Breaking the plugs by hand was the "test method".

I am curing my rock work now, and after 12 hours in 160 gallons of tap water and 4liters of vinegar, the pH is 9.1. The rock ranges from 4weeks of cure time to 4days. Though I would speculate the majority is about 3weeks old.

Ghl pH probe was used for all tests and calibrated during the process twice to ensure accuracy. A 5gallon pail was used during the curing process for the plugs.

Acryl 60. An interesting product, I wish I could have gotten my hands on. It has the potential ot positively affect the findings above, and provide a "stickier" cement product making it even easier to work with.
 
I would say that using this product as I did would require a total time of about 14 days. It could be lower, but if planning a project give yourself a bit of a buffer. Also, I believe the volume of water to cement ratio has a very direct impact. I propose that the "stuff" that raises the pH is quite limited in this product and therefore if you have an extremely high volume of water to a low amount of cement you might not notice much of an increase in pH. However, proceed with caution on this when it comes to livestock, it's always advisable to test everything before adding anything.

The one negitive of this product is the additive that reduces the requirement for water during mixing. This is a good feature for industrial application, but mixing at home for our purposes was extremely difficult. 2 to 5 lbs of dry mix could be completely messed up by the addition of a few ounces! The best process we stumbled upon was to add water slowly, letting the mixer work the product for 5min or so each time. What looks dry, would often be too wet after 5min of mixing!

If there was a similar product, that did NOT have this hydrating agent, I would advise using it instead.

Hope that helps some of you on your next project.
Tim
 
Beautiful Angel!! Hopefully this thing won't start nipping corals! It would be a terrible loss.

Glad to hear you got the mangrove pods in! Can't wait to see the "forest" Sorry about the piece being broken.

When's the school of yellow tangs coming? :dance:
 
Hi Shawn - Great post. I couldn't help but be reminded of one of my own experiences regarding the battle with thermal control. I figured I'd offer it up for your and others' consideration.

About 3 years ago I installed a 240 gallon reef aquarium for a client. 240G does not seem large but there were a number of anomalous factors to consider but the two most important for the point of this conversation are:

- He wanted all of the filtration located in the basement in a mechanical room. This resulted in a large Reeflo 8400 pressure pump (to address approx, 16 ft of vertical head); and

- The house was large enough to constitute what turned out to be a light commercial electrical system, but was unfortunately not equipped with a central surge suppression system. And to add to this point, the house was located in an exclusive neighbourhood surrounded by farms... which means that 'clean' hydro is not guaranteed by the local utility.

The latter point is only important to further enlighten the following context.

The Context:

Within the first year of this installation, I'd gone through three 1HP chillers (not to mention a few other electrical components), before putting my finger on the dirty hydro realization. Because of the configuration of this aquarium system (i.e. everything in the basement), as well as the extensive lighting system (5x 250W HQIs - 2x 96W PCs), there was a huge emphasis on cooling.

At the time I could not persuade my client to spend the additional $2K on the Aquatronica system that would have provided early warning... so all of the above combined to result in 3 terrible phone calls from my client stating that "...the tank is 95 degF; I'm thowing ice cubes into the aquarium; and all of the coral and critters are dead; we only have a few fish left alive...." In a nutshell, on three separate occasions, three large power-sucking, 1HP chillers which worked [let's say] 80% of the time to maintain 78 degF, suddenly stopped functioning, and within the course of a night, allowed the aquarium temperature to rise up to 95 def F.... this happened three times in one year.

Needless to say at this point, the I could not trust a single chiller solution, since as can be seen - it proved to be an all or nothing gamble. My client was no longer willing to invest thousands of $$$ in a project that seems to be mysteriously, and anomalously revisiting disaster.... and I was on the hunt for a better solution, as I didn't want to deal with this type of customer/client devastation any longer, with this or any other projects.

The solution:

About 12 years before this whole ordeal, I was in my second or third year completing my architectural degree, in a class, learning about cooling towers. Some of you may be aware, but here is the key point about cooling towers. They rely on the phenomenon of evaporative cooling (which I learned at that time) basically means that the phase change from liquid to gas requires heat - so what a cooling tower does is spread water over a metal lattice to thin it out, while fanning air counter-current (upwardly) through that same lattice. The water is encouraged to evaporate thereby steeling the heat from the water (left behind) to accomplish the phase change to vapour. Of course my first thought at that time was 'I can make this work on aquariums' - thinking of goldfish at that time to be honest - I wasn't into reefs at all.

(once again I apologize to those of you who already knew the details of evaporative cooling)

Nonetheless - as you can probably see, this epiphany of mine was shelved for approx. 12 years, until the point in time that I was at the end of my leash with chiller and hydro related disappointments.

I then proceeded to retrofit an existing bio-tower with an extension (taller); a couple of air channels (to direct air down to the bottom); a vented top; and two $65 [5"] computer fans (to feed air through the two channels).

When I finally got everything hooked up correctly, the temperature dropped from 95F to 74F in the winter. In the summer months when the mechanical room was naturally more humid, the evaporative capacity diminished to the extent that the temperature hovered around 78-80F. Since the system relied only on two $65 computer fans, I was no longer contending with the replacement of a $2,000 chiller after the warranty was up; and there was now [in place] a very economical solution of redundancy. The system has been in place for almost three years now, and I have never had another reef-cooking incident... thankfully! (though I did have one close call when a lightening storm tripped the GFI the fans were plugged into, but that only required a reset - this of course only qualified the dirty hydro finding)

Oh, and BTW - after designing my own sorta DIY solution I discovered that Deltec has a commercial solution that operates on the same principle of evaporative cooling... their eco-coolers.

Cautionary Notes:

- My first evaporative cooling system relied on a modified bio-tower which is okay for fish-only and even lps/soft coral reefs; a sps system would then have to contend with a now super-charged bio-tower, and the resulting production of nitrates (which is entirely controllable via carbon-dosing btw). I've addressed this issue by designing alternate ways of thinning out the water toward ease of evaporation.... i.e. find some way to spray the water through the cooling chamber as opposed to trickling it over any media - in other words, minus the substrate for the nitrifying bacteria to live; and

- most importantly... find a way to dispose of the generated humidity or you will (in most houses) begin to find mould in areas of moderate to no air circulation. This actually goes for all types of evaporative cooling including fanning your sump or display tank water surface. I actually had three computer fans blowing the surface of a large (600g) freshwater installation, and my client found mould cropping up in other areas of the basement. needless to say we put glass tops on the aquarium and the water temperature went back up to 86F (from 76 or so when the fans were in place). Once again there is a solution; and it is simply this... if you employ a proper strategy of evaporative cooling, i.e. with a reactor (not fanning surface water), you must treat your installation in a manner similar to a shower; dryer; or even a fireplace installation - send the unwanted stuff (humidity) straight outside... if you're going to invest in an aquarium in which cooling is a primary requirement; in my findings evaporative cooling is least energy intensive and more reliable. If this is something you would consider getting into, then by all means pop a 4" vent through your wall and avoid any chance of mould production inside your house.

Anyway - sorry about the long post - I just couldn't help reflecting on my own past woes when reading through Shawn's post. I figured that my eventual solution and learnings were worth sharing; and most appropriately worth saving others similar heartaches. Hope it was informative.:wave:

Regards,

Sheldon

Thanks for sharing your experience. I agree 100%, relying on any equipment, especially something as unreliable as a chiller is a tough position to be in.

There are a few problems with evaporative cooling, but nothing that can't be worked around...

1) Salt creep.
2) Excess evaporation requires excess water top-off which taxes your source water filter and could introduce impurities in the water.
3) Increased nitrification due to aerobic conditions on drip plates, trays, and media.

Lowering the ambient room temperature, directly venting heat from lighting, and providing cool replacement air definitely makes the job easier. I find that passive evaporative cooling is adequate in most cases. This can be achieved by pointing a circulation fan directly at the surface of the water in the sump is enough to drop 8˚F. Keeping the sump in a cool basement or garage is another good idea.

As far as the "dirty electrical supply", or "hydro" as we say in Canada, it is always a good idea to use a UPS (uninterrupted power supply) to correct any surges and anomalies. The first step to solving most of our problems is learning to assume nothing. One of these assumption is that the electrical and water supply is safe and reliable.
 
I would say that using this product as I did would require a total time of about 14 days. It could be lower, but if planning a project give yourself a bit of a buffer. Also, I believe the volume of water to cement ratio has a very direct impact. I propose that the "stuff" that raises the pH is quite limited in this product and therefore if you have an extremely high volume of water to a low amount of cement you might not notice much of an increase in pH. However, proceed with caution on this when it comes to livestock, it's always advisable to test everything before adding anything.

The one negitive of this product is the additive that reduces the requirement for water during mixing. This is a good feature for industrial application, but mixing at home for our purposes was extremely difficult. 2 to 5 lbs of dry mix could be completely messed up by the addition of a few ounces! The best process we stumbled upon was to add water slowly, letting the mixer work the product for 5min or so each time. What looks dry, would often be too wet after 5min of mixing!

If there was a similar product, that did NOT have this hydrating agent, I would advise using it instead.

Hope that helps some of you on your next project.
Tim

Great observations. You are absolutely right, the mix can appear very dry, then a minute later, too wet. Adding too much water over-hydrates the process and weakens the cement while extending the cure time.

The mix contains silica fume which excellerates the curing time while adding strength. This also stabilizes PH to a maximum of about 9. The key to a stable/low initial PH is to let the cement dry cure for as long as possible. The ideal length of time is 28 days, but 7 days will suffice.

When bonding rocks in the tank, you want to add water within 24 hours, so you will be at the high end of PH. Due to the relatively small amount of material used for bonding rocks, a PH spike should not exceed 9 even with a short turn around/fill time. You can correct the PH with hydrochloric or (less pure) muriatic acid, but an elevated PH is insignificant if there are no fish and inverts in the tank.

It takes some practice with cement-based faux rock and pipe coatings, but with some patience, it really pays off. By the time you are done, you really wish you could start again with all the knowledge and technics you have developed. I find that mixing styles and textures is best as it varies the "brush marks". It can be frustrating as hell at first though :)
 
Beautiful Angel!! Hopefully this thing won't start nipping corals! It would be a terrible loss.

Glad to hear you got the mangrove pods in! Can't wait to see the "forest" Sorry about the piece being broken.

When's the school of yellow tangs coming? :dance:

The angel has stolen a few sponges that were loosely placed in the rocks, and dragged them off to his lair. They didn't appear to be harmed when I rescued them today, just a little shaken up :) I don't know if this is a nesting or feeding practice?
 
It takes some practice with cement-based faux rock and pipe coatings, but with some patience, it really pays off. By the time you are done, you really wish you could start again with all the knowledge and technics you have developed. I find that mixing styles and textures is best as it varies the "brush marks". It can be frustrating as hell at first though :)

no kidding!! I had a local tank expert guide me thru the process... If I could do it again, I would learn so much more I'd want to do it again! Hahaha...
 
The angel has stolen a few sponges that were loosely placed in the rocks, and dragged them off to his lair. They didn't appear to be harmed when I rescued them today, just a little shaken up :) I don't know if this is a nesting or feeding practice?


This little guy has a permanent (caught with the fin in the seaweed jar) look about him that I believe will give him an interesting reputation in our tank.


0_0_aaacc9c77da9c97bc77593c13de0db08_1





Peter
 
Peter, are you pegging the corals in so they can be moved around, or gluing them in permanently with that Epo stuff?

Thx,

Dave.M
 
Sheldon, your extensive post is very welcome and in fact encouraged as a valuable contribution to the gestalt of this thread. Although I believe the chapter is yet to be written in this build I have to say that I am very pleased with the general environmental success we have achieved with this project. It has taken a number of contributors but I have achieved the design goal of full control over heat,humidity and noise without compromise. You can sit right in front of this tank and blindfolded you would not know there was an aquarium in the room. You can't smell it, you can't hear it and yes you can't sense it without the visual. The challenge we face with the chiller was a lack of knowledgeable skill on the part of the initial project manager who was eventually replaced by Mr. Wilson. In a sense it was a shame we did not have the right skill set present because I would have felt much more secure knowing that the temperature could be controlled in an emergency. Your example of " evaporative cooling " is in my opinion close to what I have today although (in a sense it is almost analogous to fanning the surface) The negative air pressure of the closed canopy does have an enormous impact on temp as it will not allow a heat buildup to naturally occur. Mr. Wilson and I are still having an ongoing discussion about target temperatures but I suspect we are really only 2 degrees apart. One way or another I will have a best practice defined but this one will just take time.

Peter

Thx Peter - you are doing the type of aquarium that many of us can only dream about. Great, great thread, and thanks for sharing your experiences. I really like seeing these things come together. And from all that I've been seeing and reading Mr. Wilson is an excellent (extremely competent) addition to your team!

Both the joy and frustration in this hobby is that everything takes time:bounce3:

Just one small note is that if you are running air along the surface of water which is resulting in cooling water, that is exactly evaporative cooling. Some of that water is becoming water vapour, and thereby leaving cooler; heat deprived water behind. I'm just suggesting that you would want to know how the resultant humidity is being kept out of your greater home environment. If your sump (or the surface being fanned) is located in an area of your house that is in -ve pressure respective to the rest of the house and the humidity is being directed outside, then you should be fine. If I'm understanding your situation correctly, I think that is what you have...? I only emphasize this, because it took me almost a year to discover that my fanned surface on a 600g aquarium was feeding mould in other areas of a large finished basement (under beds, rugs, etc). Just give humidity its fair due, when using fans to cool, because the possible negative results take time become visible.

Sheldon, I was not aware of cooling towers and read a bit about them on the 'net. Apparently there are air-cooled and water-cooled towers, so I guess yours would be called air-cooled. Would you consider creating a thread in the DIY forum (obviously this isn't the right place) giving measurements and drawings, and maybe a few photos, of the cooling tower you created? I'm not sure what you mean by a "bio-tower" so seeing a thorough discussion of your creation would probably be a great benefit to many of us.

Thx,

Dave.M

Bio-tower is just another type of trickle filter; you know... the very thing that most all reefers throw garlic and shoot silver bullets at... :lmao:

I'm not sure about the water cooled towers... as far as I knew they all involved air and water, but then again, I have not been designing buildings for a couple of years now. I do recall however that the cooling towers on buildings are like an ancillary arm of the air conditioning system, in that they cool the water that cools the antifreeze (glycol) that goes through the compressor.

Starting a thread sounds like a lot of responsibility for someone who only gets to go online a couple of times a week - but it sounds exciting, and it's the least I can do having learned soooo much about reefing and great builds here on RC! I'd love to do it and will certainly give it a try (as soon as I find my old drawings, which shouldn't take long).



Thanks for sharing your experience. I agree 100%, relying on any equipment, especially something as unreliable as a chiller is a tough position to be in.

There are a few problems with evaporative cooling, but nothing that can't be worked around... {Agreed}

1) Salt creep. {... yes - one solution is to contain the process in some sort of reactor or the like; and deliberately route its exhaust to complete the installation}

2) Excess evaporation requires excess water top-off which taxes your source water filter and could introduce impurities in the water. {... very true, on a 400g total system, we go through about 10-15g per day, due to two large 5" fans running full time. Prefilters on RO/DI system would have to be changed more frequently, as a direct relationship to your target temperature}

3) Increased nitrification due to aerobic conditions on drip plates, trays, and media. {...precisely why it was suggested to do away with the media, and employ a spray mechanism as a means to thin out the water}

Lowering the ambient room temperature, directly venting heat from lighting, and providing cool replacement air definitely makes the job easier. {...agreed 1000%, however in my case I had to use a large pump to deal with 1 floor level change; 12' ceilings; plus the height of the display tank position. The pump alone contributed an aggressive amount of heat, and the tank was/is enclosed behind a millwork enclosure. Though there is some exhaust, not enough to combat the lights... but definitely if you can cool the ambient temp, use cool running pumps, and lights, you've got the problem solved for sure}

I find that passive evaporative cooling is adequate in most cases. This can be achieved by pointing a circulation fan directly at the surface of the water in the sump is enough to drop 8˚F. Keeping the sump in a cool basement or garage is another good idea.
{The latter point would certainly help. If you are using a fan, that is not passive but in fact active evaporative cooling, which will lead to the same issues you identified above. The fanning does induce evaporation, and will in fact increase the demand for water top-off. The only caveat is that if you don't direct the air that is picking up the humidity from the sump toward an exhaust, you will be humidifying the entire room that the fanning is in. That could be okay if the room is adequately isolated from the rest of the house, and does not have fibrous surfaces that will support mould - i.e. drywall, exposed wood, carpet etc. ...I'm only emphasizing this point because I learned the lessons the hard way... first hand with a client involved. Just trying to contribute to that infinite search for best practices - so no one else has to get shouted at (by spouses or clients):rolleye1:}

As far as the "dirty electrical supply", or "hydro" as we say in Canada, it is always a good idea to use a UPS (uninterrupted power supply) to correct any surges and anomalies. The first step to solving most of our problems is learning to assume nothing. One of these assumption is that the electrical and water supply is safe and reliable.

{...Amen to that bro - I got a hek of a lot of spankings from my client relating to failed electrical equipment... before that I knew nothing about dirty hydro - kept calling my engineer contacts to find out why I couldn't keep a chiller or 'pool pump' running for more than 4 months in this particular house... got tired of getting laced from the blindside. But you know what they say... what don't kill you... makes you smarter (getting past the first part is really hard though:lolspin:)

After several calls with my engineer, I learned the following:
- there are two scenarios with dirty hydro: surges (spikes); and under voltage.
- A surge suppression system either on the primary electrical panel for the entire house; or on a single circuit for your sensitive equipment, will deal with the scenario (for example) of a lightening strike contacting a transformer on your municipal feed network;
- Under voltages occur when your utility connects too many nodes to a given network to the extent that if farmer Joe, or industrious Bob, fires up all of their equipment at the same time your poor chillers, or pumps might fall short of their running specs.


By code or contract, your hydro utility should not exceed an under voltage of 10%; and if your property is subject to regular variances then the equipment I'm told you need is a power conditioner, not a UPS. A UPS is simply a switching mechanism and a battery. It uses your primary power supply unless there is a power outage, at which point it switches to the battery for however long its charge will last (or power restored). If you've got a surge problem, the UPS will simply allow the surge through; if you have an under voltage issue, then the UPS will keep flipping on and off to confusion and eventual failure. Power conditioners are only good up to a 10% under voltage variance.

If you live in an urban/suburban environment, the utility will be compelled (by disgruntled clients) to clean up their hydro. If you live near farm land, the utility will likely ignore you until you prove it, and even then they might tell you to go buy your own corrective equipment before they decide to upgrade their infrastructure. If you suspect you have dirty hydro, get an electrician to hook up a power monitor to your electrical panel for a few weeks to a month (probably during thunderstorm season), so that you can take a record to your utility should they decide to ignore you (you'll also be able to determine if you have surges/under voltages/both).

Anyway, in my particular situation, the last I had was a GFI circuit trip out after a lightening storm last spring, but nothing ever since - I think all of the recent home building in the area is helping with our supply. I really hope those days are over:bounce2:}

Shawn - I think you actually inspired my first post on this RC site after doing a little passive reading every once in a while. I think you are a gift to this community, in that you bring a lot of ideas and experience into the spectrum that really adds to the overall knowledge base. You are doing great work and I love to follow thought provoking builds, of which you are always a visible contributor. Keep up the great work. I will continue to add my experiences (and flop-ups) in an effort to somehow make a meaningful contribution to this ever-evolving science project we call reef-keeping.


Cheers,

SJ :beer:
 
This little guy has a permanent (caught with the fin in the seaweed jar) look about him that I believe will give him an interesting reputation in our tank.


0_0_aaacc9c77da9c97bc77593c13de0db08_1





Peter

Few have conquered the secret of angelfish in reef tanks... If you can pull that one off you are joining a very exclusive group! AMAZING Dude!!!

I think either the current or last month's tank of the month had a tank full of corals and lg angel fish. Think he said because he loves angels and wrasses, he had to go with an sps reef... though could have sworn I saw a couple of softies in the photos....

Push that knowledge, push, push, push...!

Excellent work.

SJ
 
Peter, are you pegging the corals in so they can be moved around, or gluing them in permanently with that Epo stuff?

Thx,

Dave.M

We are using the EPO putty BUT and its a big best practice BUT we are doing the base in such a way that the hard putty keeps the coral from being blown over or away without necessarily freezing the coral to the rock..........if that makes sense.

Peter
 
My experience with blue face angels is that they will probably be better off with certain sps corals but most lps, softies and xenia will be decimated over time. and if you take one look at my blue face you will see he is far from underfed ;). I look forward to your experience with this beautful angel as they can have different tastes in food and personalities.
 
Lights

Lights

For anyone following this thread and the various discussion points the following will hopefully make sense........

This build has been about best practices from the outset. Three elements, water quality, water flow and lighting have been and still are fundamental issues that I have been determined to identify and implement in this build. I have had a number of lighting systems to try over our tank to develop criteria on which to select the best options for this project that would represent best practice for the hobby given this context. I have an admitted bias toward LED technology and I am convinced that in the near future it will be the preferred choice for hobbyists world wide. However it is not there yet for a tank with a large footprint like ours. Of all the LED units I tried out over the tank I had a definite preference for Aqua Illumination SOL product. The unit was extremely well made with a low profile, low noise fan (we couldn't hear it in actual tests). The light is dim-able and offers programmability unmatched by any competitors we could identify. The par was excellent and we were told by the manufacturer that the visible light would in fact look brighter with multiple units which we couldn't test as we only had one unit. I liked the light and was prepared to adopt it until the reality of putting 28 units over the tank with 28 power bricks, 28 power cords that would have to be mounted in the cabinetry. The alternative would be to try and put 4 units to one ballast but that would require large heat sinks (seven of them) and probably noisy fans to boot. This is not what we want for our tank and it certainly would not represent a best practice with this kind of configuration. Also it would be a first untried configuration which might carry a set of problems which we don't need. I like the SOL product and in fact will be using the NANO product in the Wilson Bars (Nine units).

This thread when consulted on their preferences both in thread as well as back channel overwhelmingly chose the Aqua Medic light which was a MH and T5 configuration. It is an amazing product really with no fan, low profile and acceptable par. There is no spotlighting as evidenced by the inability for anyone standing in front of the tank to tell how many MH lights are in the unit. Not unlike Aqua Illumination we have found the Management to be very helpful and accommodating to our requests for help and information. If the best practice includes criteria like minimum PAR value with no noise in a low profile well architected housing then the best choice for our build is the Aqua Medic product. The best part of the selected light is that the majority of feedback we have solicited has chosen this light based on aesthetics.

Mr Wilson may add more to this milestone but I want to thank all the companies who sent in products for evaluation. Even though we may not have selected your products we found positive features in every product we evaluated and we appreciate your support.


Peter
 
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