Coral Tank from Canada (1350gal Display Tank)

[jackiechandc]

Paul,
Don't know if you did it already or not or mentioned in the thread earlier, but did you contact Ocean Motions (Paul) regarding the closed loop? He's the guy that creates them and is THE GUY when it comes to closed loops. He's in the GTA and was really helpful with my set up in terms of telling me what would and wouldn't work.
Wei

 

[dave.m]

Sorry if I missed it, but have you covered grounding the water in tank and sumps in case of induced or stray voltage from lights, pumps, etc ?

djm

 

[mseepman]

The video below is part of those found at www.reefvideos.com and if you go there, among the videos there is one entire video about pegging which may help you out.

I plan to prepare my next tank using this method as all too often now I have problems placing corals.

Check out this really old video, there is a section where he touches on this subject
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pzKZpkfiLpg&feature=related

NOTE: i would not take anything for gospel in this video as many would disagree about having an Achilles tang in a small tank. But lets not open this can of worms. Look for the part where he describes how he moves the corals to different position

 

[Padrino]

yes i was looking for the exact video just on pegging but didn't see it. But it was part of the video in the above link you just had to watch the rest until you found it.

 

[boombadan]

Whens happy hour? Should I bring over my scubadiving gear :lolspin:

Nice Tank man

 

[nineball]

I remember reading this TOTM, and besides the absolutely beautiful tank and environment that Paul created...I remember being totally impressed by the Dailyseas unit. This is a top of the line unit that would implement everything we were discussing as far as water changes was concerned with as limited of a risk as possible. It's at least worth looking into if you're wanting to automate your water change procedure. Of course, you've alluded to having a full time fish guy anyway, and anyone worth (forgive the pun) their weight in salt would be able to execute a daily water change.

May I just say that I really admire the attention that has been given to the entire environment of the tank, and not just the tank itself, and though you are a rookie, your openness and methodical system by system review here should give you an excellent chance at success. I've had reefs for about 6 years now, and just a year ago, made a boneheaded mistake on my tank leading to a catastrophic failure. Of course, I am doing this hobby on a very limited budget and didn't have the option of having some of the fail-safe options that were available. The bottom line, I guess, is that I feel as though through your openness to learn from the collective experience of everyone out here, and implement as many fail-safe procedures as possible, I'm very optimistic about the success both short term and long term of this tank! :bounce1:

OK, one last question. How long do you plan to have the rock in the system with it running before you begin to add fish. I've seen that you plan to cure it for 3-4 weeks in the vat, which is fine as long as you're not going to be adding an Achilles tang to the tank as soon as that time period is up. I personally don't see what the difference would be in curing it in the tank or the vat...maybe I missed something.

I will run the live rock as long as it takes to establish some form of stability......This will be followed by a rather lengthy process of coral landscaping to create the foundation for the four grand masters. (I'm getting closer to offering up the four styles......the selection of the Masters will happen soon). Fish will be the last addition to the tank, and they will be carefully chosen based on the island compatability, tank stability and a ton of advice from this crowd!!!! But to repeat ....corals first, fish last.

Peter

 

[nineball]

Sorry if I missed it, but have you covered grounding the water in tank and sumps in case of induced or stray voltage from lights, pumps, etc ?

djm

A qualified electrician is on site and has final approval of the total electrical infrastructure including all forms of grounding throughout the ecosystem.

Peter

 

[dahenley]

A qualified electrician is on site and has final approval of the total electrical infrastructure including all forms of grounding throughout the ecosystem.

Peter

i think he means this.
http://www.marinedepot.com/Titanium_Ground_Probe_GFCI_Extension_Cords_Grounding_Probes_Surge_Protectors_for_Saltwater_Aquariums-TAAM-TA1111-FIMIGF-vi.html

or this
http://www.marinedepot.com/Ultralife_Titanium_Grounding_Probe_GFCI_Extension_Cords_Grounding_Probes_Surge_Protectors_for_Saltwater_Aquariums-Ultralife-UL1711-FIMIGF-vi.html


i dont think he is questioning your electricians qualifications.

the ground probes that are shown above are used to remove any electricity that might leak due to wave pumps/skimmer pumps/ return pumps/ anything electronic that touches/is in the water.


i hope that clears it up and is what was meant by the original poster

 

[nineball]

I came for the plumbing challenge and stayed for the fumes

I fully agree with Golf nut with regard to the flow dynamics. Your basics are there, you just need to make that flow do more for you. Flow is a matter of quality, not quantity. You should have no dead spots at the surface where "floating stuff" can collect, and the substrate should have minimal areas where "heavy stuff" can settle. A circular flow pattern whereby the sump returns direct water toward the overflows at the ends, and the closed loop returns direct the water away from the end overflows. Of course rock work wreaks havoc with this perfect storm we are conjuring, but you can't have it all.

While the fumes are circling your psyche I have a question. I don't think it qualifies as a dumb question but you may reserve judgement..........

Is the rdsb similar to the miracle mud in the refugium? Does it do the same thing? Chingchai covered it in his build and claims that it is a huge factor on the water quality in his display tank. He discovered this with his previous tank which also was a previous TOTM.

Anybody??

Peter

 

[nineball]

i think he means this.
http://www.marinedepot.com/Titanium_Ground_Probe_GFCI_Extension_Cords_Grounding_Probes_Surge_Protectors_for_Saltwater_Aquariums-TAAM-TA1111-FIMIGF-vi.html

or this
http://www.marinedepot.com/Ultralife_Titanium_Grounding_Probe_GFCI_Extension_Cords_Grounding_Probes_Surge_Protectors_for_Saltwater_Aquariums-Ultralife-UL1711-FIMIGF-vi.html

Thanks very much.........I also didn't think he was questioning the qual either. Having said that the two links are now in the hoper and if not already, will be made part of the "to do " list.

Thanks very much for the info......as usual you guys are terrific with your informative help.

Peter

i dont think he is questioning your electricians qualifications.

the ground probes that are shown above are used to remove any electricity that might leak due to wave pumps/skimmer pumps/ return pumps/ anything electronic that touches/is in the water.


i hope that clears it up and is what was meant by the original poster

 

[nineball]

Peter,
Not to really jump the gun here.......... I know you haven't even talked about lighting yet BUT

How will you attach these corals you will be importing to the live rock. Personally a lot of people have used reef safe 2 part epoxy. Ive used it in the past and if you bump the coral by accident it looses the hold and becomes loose. Some of the better reefers in toronto have utilized a small trick you may or may not be aware of. It consists of drilling your live rock with 1/4" holes. When you have your corals ready, you drill a small hole into the bottom of the coral base and insert a piece of acrylic rod or airline tubing will work as well. This can be super glued into place safely for rigidity,

With pre-drilled holes, you will see how easy it is to move corals easily from one spot to the next without changing the chemistry of the water with the two part epoxies. This is one thing i wish i did before adding the water. Since you have a fish guy to take care of this system, perhaps he could get started now so that all rock will be nicely prepared for aquascaping.

There was a great you tube video "carls reef" or something like that and shows the benefits, Seriously i wish i drilled small holes in my rock work

Always trying to think ahead!! It also makes the rock more porous which is good in soo many different ways. You'll thank me later

Rob

i would put a strong second in for predrilling your live rock. put a lot of holes in it, more than you think you would ever need. i believe that a 3/8 inch masonary bit will allow you to put most frag plugs directly into the holes you have drilled, at least until they get filled with coraline algae. also you can use the holes to place fiberglass or acylic rods to keep your reef structure stable. the advantage of using predrilled holes for placement of corals is that it is very hard to reach all the spots in a big tank and most of the adhesives you can use are not all that stable all that fast. drill baby drill.

Check out this really old video, there is a section where he touches on this subject
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pzKZpkfiLpg&feature=related

NOTE: i would not take anything for gospel in this video as many would disagree about having an Achilles tang in a small tank. But lets not open this can of worms. Look for the part where he describes how he moves the corals to different position

I have been discusing this very issue and will be bringing it to the thread very soon. This is great starting material .......Thanks ...all of you for this.

Peter

 

[kikireef]

While the fumes are circling your psyche I have a question. I don't think it qualifies as a dumb question but you may reserve judgement..........

Is the rdsb similar to the miracle mud in the refugium? Does it do the same thing? Chingchai covered it in his build and claims that it is a huge factor on the water quality in his display tank. He discovered this with his previous tank which also was a previous TOTM.

Anybody??

Peter

Not a dumb question but maybe a dumb answer and some others can join in on.... I believe that the miracle mud is doing the same thing as a RDSB. I believe that the amount of mud/RDSB will factor into its effectivness but I believe you can do one or the other and not have to do both. I could be wrong but I think miracle mud is just supposed to be mud from the ocean's reefs which is probably why it costs a fortune more than using just regular oolitic sand or aragonite. The only benefit of using a RDSB vs miracle mud in your sump is that you have the ability to take it out of the system if you choose to more easily than you could something that is physically in your sump.

 

[Shakes]

Not a dumb question but maybe a dumb answer and some others can join in on.... I believe that the miracle mud is doing the same thing as a RDSB. I believe that the amount of mud/RDSB will factor into its effectivness but I believe you can do one or the other and not have to do both. I could be wrong but I think miracle mud is just supposed to be mud from the ocean's reefs which is probably why it costs a fortune more than using just regular oolitic sand or aragonite. The only benefit of using a RDSB vs miracle mud in your sump is that you have the ability to take it out of the system if you choose to more easily than you could something that is physically in your sump.

Both provide an environment for bacteria that remove nitrate from the system but Miracle Mud contain many elements that help to replenish nutrients for your macro algae that tend to root into it. When I do a large reef system, it is my intent to have a refugium with miracle mud with macro algae (lighted portion), and have a remote DSB that is oolitic sand only (dark portion). For me having both will provide 2 different micro environments that provide redundancy and extra buffering capacity.

PS Very impressive build! Following closely!
R/
Shakes

 

[justgettinstarted]

How about putting one of these inline with the CL before it reaches any pumps, or OM flow directors?

It seems like since it's made for a pool, that it would not restrict flow too much, and when it does, it just means that it's time to replace the cartridge. The cartriges would catch any large grain sand, detritus, hair, dead fish etc. That get caught in the system. And it's not like if the filter gets completely clogged it will overflow the system, It's a closed loop so all it would do is overwork the pump. You could have the pump on a Kill-a-watt meter to tell if it's creeping up, then when it get to drawing too many amps, it's clogged and it's time to change the filter. You could probably put some kind of addition or meter into your controller (Profilux maybe?).

Oh well, seems like a decent idea to protect your CL system. Expensive at first, but would protect your OM and Pumps.

Cheers,
Aaron

Here's the brochure:
http://poolsuppliessuperstore.com/pdfs/1986brochure.pdf

I worked at a mussel farm for a while (http://www.nctimes.com/news/local/carlsbad/article_cf18f568-14e7-504b-a583-040cb08fd9f8.html) when I was in high school and they used cartridge filters. The muscles were grown in a lagoon on hanging nets and had to be taken out placed in large holding tanks with a lot of circulating water. The cartridge filters were used to remove floating sediment and food from the water (because they were kept in fresh salt water straight out of the lagoon which was not recirculated, simply pumped into the tank and then the overflow on the other end of the tank went back out into the ocean). This way when they were sold a week or 2 later they didn't have any poop left in them since they had not eaten. The filter cartridges were rinsed off with a pressure nozzle on a hose a couple times a week, and it only took about 5-10 min to rinse them.

I believe that the Monterrey bay aquarium also filters their fresh saltwater in a similar way to remove floating particulate from display tanks during viewing hours.

The filters looked something like this:

and were about 4' tall.

If you had a particulate problem I dont see there being a problem in running a couple of these on an as needed basis.


Also, just read through the whole thread and the tank/setup looks great Nineball! You have gotten some good input from a lot of people. The large diffusers on the CL intakes is def a good idea. Not sure if you have decided on lighting yet, but I would def check out Liveforphysics setup detailed here:

http://glassbox-design.com/2009/part-1-lfps-xenon-and-led-reef-lighting-system/

where he uses HID bulbs and LED's to make a great looking display.

 

[Anthonius]

omg lighting this huge tank is going to be a nightmare...i didnt even think about that because i was in so much awe due to the shear size and beauty of the current setup... i still find myself looking at that crane early on in this thread with my jaw touching the floor.

 

[dave.m]

i think he means this.
http://www.marinedepot.com/Titanium_...FIMIGF-vi.html

or this
http://www.marinedepot.com/Ultralife...FIMIGF-vi.html

i dont think he is questioning your electricians qualifications.

the ground probes that are shown above are used to remove any electricity that might leak due to wave pumps/skimmer pumps/ return pumps/ anything electronic that touches/is in the water.

i hope that clears it up and is what was meant by the original poster

Yes, that is the sort of thing. The reason I asked is that, while I understand what it is supposed to do, I don't know how it is applied, i.e. one per entire system? - one per vessel? etc.

Thx,

Dave.M

 

[nineball]

Yes, that is the sort of thing. The reason I asked is that, while I understand what it is supposed to do, I don't know how it is applied, i.e. one per entire system? - one per vessel? etc.

Thx,

Dave.M

Hopefully, I will have an answer in the next few days.....

Peter

 

[nineball]

CANNOT AGREE MORE!!! i wish i could get one of these on my next project.

Peter,
I'm not sure if you took this suggestion into consideration. It would really cut down on the amount of work you would need to do with respect to water changes.

Here is one of my favorite TOTM. Paul uses one of the Dailyseas and swears by it. I highly recommend you consider this with a system this large. You will thank me later. If you are unhappy with it at any time,let me know and ill buy it off you.
http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2008-12/totm/index.php

HTH
Rob

We are looking at this very seriously.......We have heard nothing but positive reviews from this audience. We are going to inquire about requirements for a tank this size, as the example(s) given are for smaller tanks. Chingchai who has a tank with similar volume, changes 190 gal evey week. I would like to hit a similar target as it certainly appears to be working for him.

Peter

 

[nineball]

Both provide an environment for bacteria that remove nitrate from the system but Miracle Mud contain many elements that help to replenish nutrients for your macro algae that tend to root into it. When I do a large reef system, it is my intent to have a refugium with miracle mud with macro algae (lighted portion), and have a remote DSB that is oolitic sand only (dark portion). For me having both will provide 2 different micro environments that provide redundancy and extra buffering capacity.

PS Very impressive build! Following closely!
R/
Shakes

Thanks Shakes, I am looking at the relative merits of both. I already have the 300 lbs of miracle mud ready when we need it. I'm pretty sure I will run the rdsb with sand for the Mars bars.......Now I have to see if I also make an RDSB available to the DT as well.

Welcome to the group Shakes, good to have you along.

Peter

Peter

 

[nineball]

There are a bazillion things going on here right now so my thread activity will be sporadic for the day at least. I am checking in as frequently as I can but I need a block of time to respond properly to you all. Bear with me, I'll get back to you as best I can. We are looking at some major reconfig as a result of the feedback we have been getting here.

Peter