That is very funny
I am no pro, thats for sure, but I did learn to bank with Freddy "The Beard" Bentivegna :bum:I second the Diamond heads btw. I have had them and they are great.
Coral Tank from Canada (1350gal Display Tank)
- Thread starter nineball
- Start date
- Status
That is very funny
I am no pro, thats for sure, but I did learn to bank with Freddy "The Beard" Bentivegna :bum:I second the Diamond heads btw. I have had them and they are great.
nineball
Active member
I like the idea a lot Paul, in fact I am very tempted. My current plan is to do what Chingchai did and add the same type of plant material that he did. I'm not exactly sure of the depth yet but will return to this subject when the topic of the sled comes up in the fish room part of the build.
I'm going to try and control light as much as possible over the sled to manage unwanted algae in the fish room. The Mars bars will make that a challenge and I suspect a mangrove swamp would like lots of light. But as I say it's very tempting.
Peter
Last edited:
nineball
Active member
That is very funny
I second the Diamond heads btw. I have had them and they are great.
Thanks mkbtank, it's always a good thing when there is a consensus on anything in this forum. :thumbsup:
Freddy is a great coach and a worthy mentor. His help would certainly raise the enjoyment of the game!
Peter
PauChi
New member
As a kid I used to wander in and around mangrove swamps a lot and had lots of fun ... catching crabs, clams and sometimes run into snakes ... yikes!! It is always hot and very humid with the distinct swamp stench of ammonia and saltwater ... SweeTT!!! :hmm3:
Mangrove plants was everywhere and free with the occassional mudskippers and more mudskippers and monkeys ... :lmao:
Paul
Mangrove plants was everywhere and free with the occassional mudskippers and more mudskippers and monkeys ... :lmao:
Paul
Aquarist007
New member
Speaking of mangroves
here is a good setup for mangroves only with other excellent refugium setups
The slide show is excellent too
http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showpost.php?p=16718988&postcount=106
here is a good setup for mangroves only with other excellent refugium setups
The slide show is excellent too
http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showpost.php?p=16718988&postcount=106
Aquarist007
New member
capn_hylinur ... you're the man :thumbsup: !!
Digging the RDSB with mangrove implants ...
Thanks for posting pix and related links ....
Paul
Paul--you are the man right back at you---it is an honour to talk to guys like you and Mr. Wilson
and Peter thank you for creating the opportunites for little guys like me in the reef hobby/business to speak to some of the big guns in this area:thumbsup:
PauChi
New member
We ... Canadians are as usual the humble bunch .... :beer: !! But then I'm just a puny small fry compared to ALL the bunch of "deep" hunchos of the "external" Reef kingdom ... seriously!! I am still on the learning curve of making it Big ... :lol2: !!
Paul
Aquarist007
New member
with me its rather a matter of being successful with the clients I have. Hamilton seems to be mired in a sea of misconceptions about basic reefing concepts and maintaining marine tanks. This is why I switched over to RC a few years back and got away from the local reef forums
It seems the enlightment in the reefkeeping business is centred around the Oakville/Mississauga/GTO area.
In that I appreciate being able to communicate with guys from that area
PauChi
New member
Heck ... there isn't too much happening in the east end of the GTA too!! But then online reef forum is Universal and centred around our computers ... Day 'N Nite!!!
Just one click away and we're all connected with experienced guys like you, mr.wilson and reefers from all over the world ... future video conference nightmares :hmm5:!!
Peter & Chingchai's Threads have been, in my opinion, the Pioneer of Motherload of Extreme Reefkeeping!!
Paul
nineball
Active member
Aquarist007
New member
You are very welcome--I appreciate the forum that you have setup with this thread whereby I can communicate with experts in this region:thumbsup:
and I can understand the exciting intense learning curve that you brain is on right now
my personal feelings on mangroves is that they are not that great for uptaking nitrates and phosphates. They grow extremely slow therefore they don't uptake too much.
my favourite is rapidly growing chaeto. If you keep it growing rapidly then it is a great uptaker of nitrates and phosphates. It is also great cover for copopods and inverts that some creatures will need in your system
nineball
Active member
This is my current plan, again based on Chingchai's practical demonstration of effectiveness. He has Chaetomorpha and Caulerpa algae on top of the Miracle Mud and this appears to work extremely well for him. I remember watching the Chaeto grow in Ching's refugium.....it was incredible.
As far as the learning curve is concerned you are right, this stuff is incredibly demanding. Problem is that nothing I have read or absorbed is static. The knowledge floor keeps shifting......makes it hard to stand up!!
Peter
Peter
Variansyn
New member
nineball
Active member
I have had my Jakarta Premium Branch Rock in the storage tanks for 17 days and the rock is colourful and does not smell bad. I have done one major water change, cleaned out the storage tanks and put new salt water back in. The salinity is 1.025 and the temp is targeted at 79 F. I say targeted as the temp dropped after the water change to 68 and I am bringing it back up. It took me 24 hrs to get back over 75.
Peter
Aquarist007
New member
there are some static concepts or the basics that have never changed and probably will not
such as live rock is the key to biological filtration
shallow sand beds vs deep sand beds
protein skimming
water changes and lots of flow or circulation
Mr. Wilson who should have been a teacher IMO (we would have kicked butt together teaching biology and chemistry Shawn) is doing a great job of teaching you the basics
As far as the rapid changes in thinking---if you look very carefully into them you will find most of them industry driven rather then hobby driven
Please stay away from caulerpa algae---that stuff can take over a tank very quickly. It can go sexual and release 1000's of spores which can rob all the oxygen from a 100 gal tank in 12 hours or so.It is very reactive to lighting conditions.
Posidion
Coral Gardner
+ 1 to the Capn. Skip the caulerpa. The only people i know who have used it long term including myself have kept it under 24Hr intense lighting, with constant pruning. And in my case it still crashed around year 3 and made a real mess in my tank. Cheato will not do this.
Aquarist007
New member
mr.wilson
.Registered Member
Caulerpa gets a bad rap for its tendency to reproduce sexually when it undergoes "seasonal changes". These natural cues, primarily a change in photoperiod (daylight hours) cause the caulerpa to shut down and release spores into the water. The water can get quite cloudy and the raid die-off releases bound nutrients and heavy metals. If you keep a steady photoperiod of 16 hours on and 8 hours off, the algae will not reproduce sexually and or crash. The addition of an iron supplement will also boost macro algae growth.
Mixing a DSB and refugium is a bad idea as one requires light and the other competes with photosynthetic organisms. many hobbyists report that he addition of a RDSB has an impact on nitrate levels, but you will find more success stories in discussions of slow flow denitrators, sulphur bead filters, Algae turf scrubbers/refugia, carbon media, and carbon dosing.
The size of a RDSB must also reach a critical mass. I followed a thread her on RC for years on 5 gallon bucket RDSB's. It was an epic thread with page after page of plans for buckets and powerheads. Everyone swapped design ideas and everyone was happy with their handy work but there wasn't a single report of nitrate reduction. I can't say with any certainty that the idea doesn't work, but it was a huge test group with no positive feedback other than the ultimate use of uniseals, maxijets, and old salt buckets.
Water changes are very poplar but they are the least efficient method of nutrient export. Salt and even source water isn't cheap and a 10% water change will reduce the bad stuff by only... you guessed it 10%. If you use a good salt mix it will replace 100% of the missing elements, but only in 10% of the water. The other 90% needs to be supplemented chemically via your method of choice. I'm patient for the curtain rise on that one What water changes will do is remove the "unknowns" as many people call them. I don't know of any unknowns that cannot be removed through mechanical (socks & cartridges etc.), biological (rocks, sand, algae farming, organisms etc.), chemical (polymers, ion exchange resins, protein skimming, sulphur or carbon beads etc.), or disinfection (UV irradiation & ozone) filtration. I'm not saying water changes are a bad thing, but if you measure the resources used and the amount accomplished, it doesn't measure up to the other weapons in our filtering arsenal.
The original magician of Miracle Mud, Leng Sy, operates his refugium on a 24 hour photoperiod, offering no rest time for photosynthetic respiration. This practice tricks the caulerpa into thinking it is one never ending day so it doesn't reproduce sexually. Leng Sy experiences little or no growth of the algae, at least in his original tank. The caulerpa develops hormonal deficiencies due to the lack of respiration (night/dark period). In doing so you lose the valuable nutrient export associated with the harvesting of macro algae. Once again, this is based on his original system. I haven't heard much about it in the last 15 years so I'm sure he has made some modifications.
Here is a discussion from another forum I found. http://new.ultimatereef.net/forums/showthread.php?p=1367737
The idea of massive water changes (30% per month), and the harvesting of large volumes of macro algae leaves me to wonder what the value of the mud is? It's like those miracle diet pills they sell where you have to get lots of exercise and eat healthy foods to make them work.
In my opinion, however humble, the macro algae in Leng Sy's systems act as a semi-buoyant biological filter media, similar to the lightweight mud he sells. Sand beds are most efficient on the surface, so adding more surface area improves overall performance. The denitrifying microbes that live on coral tissue live on the branches and leaves of the macro algae as a biofilm (slime coat). The constant farming of algae removes this slime that takes weeks to develop layer by layer.
The other function of a Miracle Mud system is it provides lots of viable sites for benthic invertebrates that polish the water such as worms, barnacles, bivalves, sponges, and tunicates.
Mangroves are not fast growers so they do not directly export significant amounts of nutrients or heavy metals, but they do foster the growth of microbes on their root mass that consume the bad stuff. Like the miracle mud, they also harbour lots of water polishing benthic detrivores.
The most interesting feature of mangrove tress is the tangled web of roots. In orer to get your mangroves to grow "legs" like this, you need to elevate them 4-6" every month or so. This practice simulates the ebb and flow of tidal waters and or heavy rains in mangrove swamps. In nature, the water level drops and the mangrove tree stretches its roots deeper into the water. You will see a change in the colour and texture of the roots as it adapts to the change in water level. The lower root mass is green and smooth and it is adapted to being submerged, while the upper root mass is brown and rough more like traditional bark. The upper "air roots" are more for structure than water collection.
Mangrove trees don't actually require salt water and do quite well in freshwater and soil. Mangroves are able to extract freshwater from saltwater and expel the salt through their leaves. In nature, morning dew and rain washes the salty residue away, but in a home aquarium you need to have one of your staff wipe them with a wet cloth by hand.
Mangrove trees have a high demand for magnesium, so they should be planted in dolomite (calcium magnesium chloride) which is available at your local farm supply store (Ren's Feed Store on Trafalgar in Oakville). You can add some dolomite to your calcium reactor (if you decide to get one) to buffer magnesium, which stabilizes calcium supplementation.
Mixing a DSB and refugium is a bad idea as one requires light and the other competes with photosynthetic organisms. many hobbyists report that he addition of a RDSB has an impact on nitrate levels, but you will find more success stories in discussions of slow flow denitrators, sulphur bead filters, Algae turf scrubbers/refugia, carbon media, and carbon dosing.
The size of a RDSB must also reach a critical mass. I followed a thread her on RC for years on 5 gallon bucket RDSB's. It was an epic thread with page after page of plans for buckets and powerheads. Everyone swapped design ideas and everyone was happy with their handy work but there wasn't a single report of nitrate reduction. I can't say with any certainty that the idea doesn't work, but it was a huge test group with no positive feedback other than the ultimate use of uniseals, maxijets, and old salt buckets.
Water changes are very poplar but they are the least efficient method of nutrient export. Salt and even source water isn't cheap and a 10% water change will reduce the bad stuff by only... you guessed it 10%. If you use a good salt mix it will replace 100% of the missing elements, but only in 10% of the water. The other 90% needs to be supplemented chemically via your method of choice. I'm patient for the curtain rise on that one
What water changes will do is remove the "unknowns" as many people call them. I don't know of any unknowns that cannot be removed through mechanical (socks & cartridges etc.), biological (rocks, sand, algae farming, organisms etc.), chemical (polymers, ion exchange resins, protein skimming, sulphur or carbon beads etc.), or disinfection (UV irradiation & ozone) filtration. I'm not saying water changes are a bad thing, but if you measure the resources used and the amount accomplished, it doesn't measure up to the other weapons in our filtering arsenal.The original magician of Miracle Mud, Leng Sy, operates his refugium on a 24 hour photoperiod, offering no rest time for photosynthetic respiration. This practice tricks the caulerpa into thinking it is one never ending day so it doesn't reproduce sexually. Leng Sy experiences little or no growth of the algae, at least in his original tank. The caulerpa develops hormonal deficiencies due to the lack of respiration (night/dark period). In doing so you lose the valuable nutrient export associated with the harvesting of macro algae. Once again, this is based on his original system. I haven't heard much about it in the last 15 years so I'm sure he has made some modifications.
Here is a discussion from another forum I found. http://new.ultimatereef.net/forums/showthread.php?p=1367737
The idea of massive water changes (30% per month), and the harvesting of large volumes of macro algae leaves me to wonder what the value of the mud is? It's like those miracle diet pills they sell where you have to get lots of exercise and eat healthy foods to make them work.
In my opinion, however humble, the macro algae in Leng Sy's systems act as a semi-buoyant biological filter media, similar to the lightweight mud he sells. Sand beds are most efficient on the surface, so adding more surface area improves overall performance. The denitrifying microbes that live on coral tissue live on the branches and leaves of the macro algae as a biofilm (slime coat). The constant farming of algae removes this slime that takes weeks to develop layer by layer.
The other function of a Miracle Mud system is it provides lots of viable sites for benthic invertebrates that polish the water such as worms, barnacles, bivalves, sponges, and tunicates.
Mangroves are not fast growers so they do not directly export significant amounts of nutrients or heavy metals, but they do foster the growth of microbes on their root mass that consume the bad stuff. Like the miracle mud, they also harbour lots of water polishing benthic detrivores.
The most interesting feature of mangrove tress is the tangled web of roots. In orer to get your mangroves to grow "legs" like this, you need to elevate them 4-6" every month or so. This practice simulates the ebb and flow of tidal waters and or heavy rains in mangrove swamps. In nature, the water level drops and the mangrove tree stretches its roots deeper into the water. You will see a change in the colour and texture of the roots as it adapts to the change in water level. The lower root mass is green and smooth and it is adapted to being submerged, while the upper root mass is brown and rough more like traditional bark. The upper "air roots" are more for structure than water collection.
Mangrove trees don't actually require salt water and do quite well in freshwater and soil. Mangroves are able to extract freshwater from saltwater and expel the salt through their leaves. In nature, morning dew and rain washes the salty residue away, but in a home aquarium you need to have one of your staff wipe them with a wet cloth by hand.
Mangrove trees have a high demand for magnesium, so they should be planted in dolomite (calcium magnesium chloride) which is available at your local farm supply store (Ren's Feed Store on Trafalgar in Oakville). You can add some dolomite to your calcium reactor (if you decide to get one) to buffer magnesium, which stabilizes calcium supplementation.
chingchai
Premium Member
I agree with you.
Actually I only put Chaetomorpha in my refugium.
Caulerpa is coming from the live rock or somewhere else.
I will prune it off later on.
- Status
Similar threads
