Coral Tank from Canada (1350gal Display Tank)

[nineball]

I don't know how I missed this thread, but I just read it over a couple of days. Amazing! I just upgraded from a 55 to a 90 and now that seems so small. It is so nice to read a thread that has a nice community feel to it as opposed to so many others that are full of bickering and flaming. Keep up the good work!

Thank you Russter. Hopefully you will also feel welcome to a group who does NOT discriminate based on size. Everyone is encouraged to contribute and help make this project a true community effort. So in a sense this tank belongs to all of us..............

Peter

 

[Frank Aguirre]

Is going well

Is going well

It took me a moment to realize your build is under way. I remember the start and I will look forward to your progress as well.

Peter

Thank you yes I've been quite busy but you are more than welcome to see the install anytime. Maybe that can give you some extra ideas when it comes to 1000 gal Plus...We are in Forest Hill Toronto.

 

[Frank Aguirre]

Hey Capn

Hey Capn

Hello Frank
Aquarists claim mangroves are "slower" uptakers of nitrates and phosphates because they have trouble getting them to grow rapidly. You have found an excellent way of getting maximum growth out of them.
I read that you are using t5's for lighting. What are you using for substrate in the mangrove refugium. I know some like to have a layer of miracle mud sandwiched between two layers of sugar fine argonite
Thanks for posting pics of that refugium---now I know why I can never find a mangrove to purchase in this area:fun2:

Well the debate about mangroves will be eternal for two reasons

- First many aquarists have never seen a mangrove swamp and is hard to understand the huge interaction that mangroves have in the coastal shorelines with the tropical oceans

- Second I insist aquarist aren't aware that the cleansing power of the swamp is about numbers not just one or two mangroves hanging around which is what I normally see in most set ups around here.

I have try to change that notion and some of my friends are very happy owners of little forest now which not only makes up for filtering capabilities but for looks as well. I have full reefers confessing to me how they debate about what the like more the mangrove swamp or their main tanks LOL

Anyhow I use caribsea aragonite seafloor like the one Peter is using for his tank in a bed no lesser than 6" deep and strong light. Please forget those clamp lights they are not good.

I spray the mangroves only twice a week with R/O water exclusively.

And the most important chore make sure the leaves are not left to rot in the water after they fall or when they become yellow gently just snap them from the main plant.

I hope this helps

Regards

 

[nineball]

It's the relationship between the fish and how the fit together as a group that is interesting, more than just gaudy colours. You want fish to fill all zones of the tank with gobies and blennies on the bottom, schooling fish in the middle near the top to draw out the timid fish, and some bigger fish in open areas.

I have seen cases where a large reef tank with 40 fish can appear devoid of fish due to their shyness. Once a school of anthias or chromis is added they know it is safe from predators and they all crawl out of the woodwork. We call these schools of fish "dither fish".

Some Swallowtail angels (Genacanthus sp.) eat anthias feces. They hang out below large schools and wait for the anthias to "make it rain"

Tile Gobies and certain blennies mimic anthias so they can blend in with the crowd for safety when travelling. Normally I wouldn't recommend tile gobies beacuse they don't adapt well to reef tanks, but they are fine with big tanks and look to scale (they put small tanks out of scale with their rapid swimming patterns and larger size 6"). The flashing tile goby is amazing as seen in this not-so-great video. http://smg.photobucket.com/albums/v221/blackgpgt/?action=view&current=New90134.flv
Purple tile gobies are even more colourful, but they stick to one vibrant colour. http://www.getahugetank.com/images/purple_tile.jpg

Garden eels are another one that may work in a big tank like yours, but they need deep sand. You may be able to design a segregated sand area with deeper sand. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rXNjRNbpB9s

Mr. Wilson, this is the kind of commentary I want to have in great detail when I get to the fish chapter. Its very tempting to jump into the subject early with this kind of opening but I'm determined to follow a methodology that has the fish room next, then all about lighting, followed by the aquascuplture (remember the four masters) and then a long chapter on everything 'coral' followed again by everything 'fish'.

For the moment, I am heads down on the electrical, plumbing and acoustical framework in preparation for the mars bars and equipment sled hopefully in the next two weeks. I'm asking Mike to give me a list of all the equipment on and off the sled which I will use as a starting block for the 'whats missing' discussion. I might even have some pictures of the before and after the drywall to break the monotony..........

Peter

 

[tonyf]

I agree, any non-metallic substrate will work. It took me awhile to get used to the idea that you can use anything other than aragonite for a reef tank. I'm even convinced silica sand is okay, but it will scratch the tank like a diamond.

In the old days we relied on calcareous substrate for chemical buffering of carbonates (DKH) and PH. Now we have (Nilsen) kalkwasser reactors, calcium reactors, and metering pumps to get the job done. In reality, any substrate is going to get coated with biofilms and cease to dissolve, so the buffering capacity is negligible in saltwater. It's a different story with African Cichlid tanks, but we'll save that discussion for another forum ...

LOL, I use a locally (Oz) available calcium cattle feed supplement called 'Calgrit' -- perfect grain size and beautiful white all of the time

Tone :lol:

 

[tonyf]

Once upon a time, a bazillion years ago, on a wild weekend in St Lucia (talk about a blind date gone right!!!) I woke up in a small resort on the side of a hill called Anse Chastanet. It was a small bay with black volcanic sand. It was the first time I had seen or felt it and I was quite taken with it as I snorkeled a short distance to an inshore reef. As I approached the reef the sand changed or should I say morphed into pure white soft sand. The transition took place with white ripples or stripes appearing in the solid black volcanic sand and then became black stripes on white sand untill the black stripes were no more. Very, very striking and if I was doing only one structure it would probably be that one. Start out at one end of the tank in black sand and end up in white at the other end. Seeing this phenomena occur naturally in nature would make it very real.

But then there was another time off Port Douglas near the Great Barrier Reef where................

But that's for later.....

Peter

Low Island ? Favourite easily accessible isle.

Tone :bigeyes:

 

[PauChi]

I have to admit I'm not a fish person ... a question for Shawn (mr.wilson) about the Swallowtail angels (Genicanthus sp.). After viewing the picture I find the Swallowtail angels very similar to the Damsel family & I would have been fooled ....

Hey Peter ... just convince your wife that it could be an indoor sunroom for "her nursery plants" too ... :love2: and then you sneak in the mangroves!!

Thx,
Paul

 

[nineball]

I have to admit I'm not a fish person ... a question for Shawn (mr.wilson) about the Swallowtail angels (Genicanthus sp.). After viewing the picture I find the Swallowtail angels very similar to the Damsel family & I would have been fooled ....

Hey Peter ... just convince your wife that it could be an indoor sunroom for "her nursery plants" too ... :love2: and then you sneak in the mangroves!!

Thx,
Paul

Nice try Paul, I already tried that........all I suggested was a green house off the west wing suite and got shot down.:fun2:

Peter

 

[nineball]

Low Island ? Favourite easily accessible isle.

Tone :bigeyes:

Actually Tone I couldn't tell you exactly where I was except that it took about two hours at full throttle to get there, Australia was loooong gone and we visited three different types of reef structures over the whole day. It was an amazing experience I will never forget.

Peter

 

[Aquarist007]

Well the debate about mangroves will be eternal for two reasons

- First many aquarists have never seen a mangrove swamp and is hard to understand the huge interaction that mangroves have in the coastal shorelines with the tropical oceans

- Second I insist aquarist aren't aware that the cleansing power of the swamp is about numbers not just one or two mangroves hanging around which is what I normally see in most set ups around here.

I have try to change that notion and some of my friends are very happy owners of little forest now which not only makes up for filtering capabilities but for looks as well. I have full reefers confessing to me how they debate about what the like more the mangrove swamp or their main tanks LOL

Anyhow I use caribsea aragonite seafloor like the one Peter is using for his tank in a bed no lesser than 6" deep and strong light. Please forget those clamp lights they are not good.

I spray the mangroves only twice a week with R/O water exclusively.

And the most important chore make sure the leaves are not left to rot in the water after they fall or when they become yellow gently just snap them from the main plant.

I hope this helps

Regards

Thanks Frank and I agree. I was fortunate to spend five summers as a kid in the magrove swamps of Florida so I can appreciate what you have written.
I tried mangroves a couple of times but I just could not get more then a couple of plants at a time. Where in the gto area would you be able to buy a dozen or so at a time?

BTW
I hope I have the opportunity to see your tank and Peters some day. That would be a thrill and a half for me:bigeyes::bigeyes:

 

[Aquarist007]

Nice try Paul, I already tried that........all I suggested was a green house off the west wing suite and got shot down.:fun2:

Peter

Frank has them growing beautifully with t5's---you could get away with a refugium of them in your fish room.

 

[PauChi]

Frank has them growing beautifully with t5's---you could get away with a refugium of them in your fish room.

That's very tempting and after viewing Frank Aguiire's mangrove "plantation", I find it's quite pleasing as a nice decor to what's an already boring plain old refugium at most times ... IMHO.


Thx,
Paul

 

[nineball]

Thanks Frank and I agree. I was fortunate to spend five summers as a kid in the magrove swamps of Florida so I can appreciate what you have written.
I tried mangroves a couple of times but I just could not get more then a couple of plants at a time. Where in the gto area would you be able to buy a dozen or so at a time?

BTW
I hope I have the opportunity to see your tank and Peters some day. That would be a thrill and a half for me:bigeyes::bigeyes:

Frank has them growing beautifully with t5's---you could get away with a refugium of them in your fish room.

Not to worry Capn, you will be one of the first with Mr. Wilson to get the grand tour.

One of the issues I have to look at and discuss is what parts of the fish room are best left in the dark and what parts need managed light. When I get the equipment sled in place I will look at what I might be able to do at that point.

Peter

 

[Oldude]

In Calgary I've seen them for sale at the "Superstore" so you find them there in Toronto as well.

 

[PauChi]

In Calgary I've seen them for sale at the "Superstore" so you find them there in Toronto as well.

In the GTA ... "Superstore" is in fact a super sized grocery store.

Paul

 

[advanced reef]

Very well done Peter. i managed to read through your whole process and it is very impressive. how long did it take from concept and a mere thought of a tank to where you are now? Flavio

 

[Oldude]

In the GTA ... "Superstore" is in fact a super sized grocery store.

Paul

Yes same in Calgary but the store isn't a typical grocery store & caters to many ethnic back grounds and I've seen mangrove pods available there. I don't usually shop there so it's been awhile and I would imagine their availability would be seasonal.

 

[nineball]

Very well done Peter. i managed to read through your whole process and it is very impressive. how long did it take from concept and a mere thought of a tank to where you are now? Flavio

Thanks Flavio, and congratulations on surviving the verbiage. I started to really get serious about the build in the middle of Chingchai's process. I liked his approach in establishing the vision at the outset and the distinct phases that followed. I would say that the project initiated about a year ago but implementation started about 6 months later with the tank arrival.

I must admit that various aspects are being affected by this community and will likely continue throughout the process. There is some very good experience in this group and in some respects represents the most current information available which I value greatly.

To answer your next question, I think it will be six months before we will see fish in the tank. I plan to ensure as much stability as I can through the introduction of the live rock and then the coral. Then and only then will we introduce Mr. Wilson's list of recommended fish. :dance:

Peter

 

[advanced reef]

Thanks Peter. you made me look up the word verbiage interesting as i thought it would of taken longer in planning. You have achieved the right balance with the tank and its surrounding both complimenting each other. ill put in my 2 cents regarding the mangroves and deep sand beds as ive employed both systems, ive never had any better success at lower nitrates with either system. my latest home tank of about 600 litres has a very shallow bed with zero nitrates, i personaly didnt see a benefit using a dsb in the sump either, albeit i do use much larger skimmers on my systems then most people would suggest. i do admit the mangroves look great but i dont know how effective they are. i do see Mr. Frank has used quite a few compared to 4 or 5 mangroves i tried and that may be a difference. Im sure you have sourced your skimmer Peter as i see that as key to any system,

 

[nineball]

Thanks Peter. you made me look up the word verbiage interesting as i thought it would of taken longer in planning. You have achieved the right balance with the tank and its surrounding both complimenting each other. ill put in my 2 cents regarding the mangroves and deep sand beds as ive employed both systems, ive never had any better success at lower nitrates with either system. my latest home tank of about 600 litres has a very shallow bed with zero nitrates, i personaly didnt see a benefit using a dsb in the sump either, albeit i do use much larger skimmers on my systems then most people would suggest. i do admit the mangroves look great but i dont know how effective they are. i do see Mr. Frank has used quite a few compared to 4 or 5 mangroves i tried and that may be a difference. Im sure you have sourced your skimmer Peter as i see that as key to any system,

Thanks Flavio,

I have a K2 25 which I hope will get me started.

Peter