Could someone please explain the importance of enough live rock

[CoralBeauty13]

Yes, I do read up on it a lot, but everyone has a different opinion on what should be there, but not really understanding if I need more of less. I think I have about 100lbs or rock.


I have a 180gl with very minimal liverock as I like to see the sand and room for fish to swim. I understand the live bacteria and benefits that liverock brings, but, is there a certain amount I should have and how does it pertain to bioload?

:wavehand: thx

 

[CoralBeauty13]

My Tank

 

[reefer1970]

More rock= less water changes+ more fish
Also more real estate for corals to grow, more hiding places for fish and inverts
If you want less maintenance and the look of less rock in the display, just add more to the sump (BRS sells those spheres and blocks that work better than LR
I've got 150 lbs in a 125g plus whats in my sump. I'd do 1lb/ gal at least

 

[kcinnick]

I think you are fine for a softy tank if that is the look you want.

 

[Reef Frog]

The amount and type of liverock in an aquarium will usually determine the quantity & diversity of the bacterial colonies (flocs) present. These are the aerobic & anerobic bacterial species responsible for the nitrogen cycle. More rock, more bacteria. The more bacteria, the more robust your bio filter - which in turn can process more waste. The practical result is a more stable, lower nutrient aquarium.

There is no set formula on how much is needed but there are "generally accepted" guidelines out there. Very little LR and lots of big pooping fish may create a situation where the processing of ammonia & nitrites can barely keep up with the large bioload on a day to day basis. Then something bad happens like a fish death or over feeding by your tank sitter, and all of a sudden ammonia goes haywire and animals start to die. Mature aquariums with plenty of nice porous LR can often handle these kinds of events easily without "crashing" the tank.

Or sometimes a weak anerobic bacterial population inside the LR can hinder the last part of the cycle where nitrate is converted to nitrogen gas which will leave the tank. Those with insufficient LR may experience persistent high nitrate levels which can interfere with coral growth and accelerate pest algae growth. Some aquarists then fight back with bio pellets, vodka dosing or even complex sulphur denitrators.

So a sufficient quanity of LR is simply more habitat for several species of bacteria that we depend on. It also is habitat for animals higher in the food chain like pods, worms, corals & much more.

 

[CoralBeauty13]

Thank you all for your help. Reef Frog, what you explained made total sense. I'm fighting those Nitrates/Nitrites more often than I want. I won't go the route of live rock, but cured so that I don't end up with a big cycle that I don't have time for. Thank you for your input.

 

[jimrawr]

I dont have much LR in my tank and things seem to be happy and healthy. I think putting too much rock is more of a problem than not putting enough. When you have a lot of rock the detritus can just hide under the rocks and make your tank a nutrient rich zone.

 

[ca1ore]

The trouble, of course, is that no two rocks are created equally and it's impossible to know for a given pile of rocks, how much bio filter 'capacity' is contained therein. It becomes something of a trial and error game then. My own anecdotal experience is that a robust bio filter can be achieved with much less than the old lb/gallon rule of thumb; but YMMV.

I suppose all things equal, more rock means more bio filter capacity means more fish; though swimming room then becomes a problem. Keeping rock, or some other kind of biomedia, in the sump is a way around this; though I've found it unecessary.

 

[Reef Frog]

I agree that many liverock aquascapes can indeed contribute to the accumulation of unwanted detritus. I think it's essential to develop a maintenance routine that can keep this in check. The turkey baster, filter socks & wet skimming are your friends in this adventure.

IMO & impressions from anecdotal experience, I think some types of rock offer better potential as a bio filter. Heavy solid rock without many pores or worm holes seems to offer the least surface area.

Light porous rock, the kind that seems unusually light for its size when dry, often has an incredible amount of internal surface area for bacteria I've had to cut some to size and it's quite noticeable when you see it.

I agree it's not really possible to say with any precision what quantity & type of rock is needed in a given tank to achieve any given biological result or filtration goal. For example in Jimrawr's tank (nice, unique 'scape BTW!), his minimalistic design might have less rock then average, but the openess may make detritus control very easy & efficient, thereby offering a good way to control nutrients for his bio load. There are so few hard & fast rules in this hobby; so much of it is a moving target.

 

[slief]

As has been said, live rock provides a major surface for both aerobic and anaerobic bacteria which play a crucial role in the systems ability to break down waste. It's the heart of your biological filtration.

I am one who believe the more the merrier. I don't dose carbon sources or run nitrate reactors. I have plenty of live rock in my display and I also have some in my sump and my refugiums. In my 650 gallon system, I have nearly 1000 pounds between my display, sump, refugium and display refugium. I have a very heavy load in my display with a lot of heavily fed fish and I never have detectable nitrates. I attribute that in part to the amount of live rock in my system.

 

[nvy]

Scape your tank just like you like visually that's it! Don't worry too much about the LR/lb ratio.

I would try dosing vodka, sugar, and vinegar to control your nitrates and phosphates then crank up the skimmer. Reactors if you have the spare cash to maintain.

I wouldn't not go with marinepure spheres or blocks unless you plan on cleaning them a LOT because they get clogged quick and become nitrate factories.

 

[wildman926]

Scape your tank just like you like visually that's it! Don't worry too much about the LR/lb ratio.

X2

Just run an ATS and/cheato and don't worry about detritus build up. That is what a clean up crew is for. Using a turkey baster every now and again to blast the rocks and crannies helps. You can use a power head also.

 

[Timfish]

Quality wild or maricultured live rock is the best source for the various sponges and microfauna essential to the DOC cycle and nitrogen cycle. Cryptic sponges species on live rock are critical recyclers of the DOC released by algae and corals and also feed on organic sources of nitrogen released by fish and other organisms.

A few pounds is all that's needed to seed a system and needs to be quarantined just like everything else you put in your display tank.

Live rock will help initially with the nitrogen cycle but as your corals and sponges grow and reproduce they will become the central part of your nitrogen cycle removing ammonia(um) and uric acid released by fish directly competing with nuisance algae and nitrifying bacteria.

As for pests introduced by live rock the vast majority I've run into over the decades has come from other aquarists not live rock and by far the animal that has caused more loss of life and time is the ubiquitous BTA.

https://www.researchgate.net/publication/279061640_2013_deGoeij_Science_Sponge_loop

http://www.ingentaconnect.com/content/umrsmas/bullmar/1979/00000029/00000004/art00011

http://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s00227-008-0948-5

 

[codyreed29]

Hiding places for fish and inverts, Biological filtration. That's it really if you use a biomedia in your sump and have open water swimmers only you don't really need live rock at all.

 

[potatocouch]

more rocks mean less water, right?

means more chance of salinity swing?

 

[Dan_P]

If you have a sand bed, you are likely to have no need live rock. I know this sounds like heresy. A sand bed should have a lot more surface area for bacterial growth, i.e., biofiltration, then live rock. There are even calculations to determine bioload for a given surface area in a sand bed but there is little solid science behind live rock requirements. On top of that, there are no objective and quantitative method to determine the useful surface area in a piece of live rock. Live rock weight is meaningless in determining biofiltration potential.

If your aquarium is doing well and you are happy with the appearance, there is no need to chase the pounds per gallon number.

 

[outy]

Could someone please explain the importance of enough live rock


You don't need any at all.

There is no importance.


Its not going to change much of anything in any aspect.



Most tanks have enough of a sandbed or surface area for bacteria to grow to sustain a tank.

OLD school chain of thought was to have enough liverock to provide biological filtration, it never worked well for the average reefer. A deep sand bed worked better.

 

[Sk8r]

Porosity is the issue. You can have a lot of really heavy live rock with less processing power than rock weighing half that. Bacteria can live inside porous rock, amounting to a vastly expanded processing power.
There is also, now, a product that some of us are experimenting with, which is a block of bubbled aluminum coated in ceramic, as best I understand it. It's extremely porous in a very limited amount of space, and you do NOT want strong flowthrough with it: the bacteria you want are anaerobic. What nobody yet has data on is how much aluminum can escape into the water from this product and what it will do to various sorts of tanks, but I would think that fish would be less affected than some creatures. Take a look at the discussion over in the Reef Chemistry forum.

 

[gotkuuipo]

I was looking into the Marine Pure blocks - anyone have long-term experience with Siporax or other ceramics for porous area to facilitate bacteria growth?

 

[Reef Frog]

Could someone please explain the importance of enough live rock


You don't need any at all.

There is no importance.

Its not going to change much of anything in any aspect.

Most tanks have enough of a sandbed or surface area for bacteria to grow to sustain a tank.

OLD school chain of thought was to have enough liverock to provide biological filtration, it never worked well for the average reefer. A deep sand bed worked better.

Technically, you don't need any LR. Yes, nitrifying bacteria will colonize all surfaces and other forms of media can be substituted. And a deep sand bed will do the trick as well, but it sure isn't for everyone & has its own special risks & rewards for specialized needs. If you can sustain the proper bacterial species in the correct quantities for a given bio load easily & reliably, all will be well. It seems that some of those crazy tanks on the TV shows don't use LR but that's another story.

But why would you want to go this route? It's not good advice for most aquarists. Especially those starting out. Sentences 2,3,4 & 5 are pretty far out there IMO.

IN DEFENCE & PRAISE OF LIVE ROCK:
-The typical aquascape provides an incredibly huge total surface area for bacteria; far more than could be achieved easily with other methods.
-The interior of good fluffy live rock is superior for habitat for anerobic bacteria, the key to low nitrate levels.
-The habitat LR provides is excellent for sustaining microfauna which provides interest, food & detritus control.
-Live rock provides essential hiding & sleeping spaces for fish & inverts. Many could not survive without it due to stress & predation.
-Live rock is where most corals live & grow. No live rock no reef keeping hobby!
-Use of LR in some fashion will usually give the most pleasing look.

There's just no downside to LR. When Mr Eng "discovered" live rock 40+ years ago really is what made the hobby possible for most people. I can only think of a precious few examples where an aquarist woukd not want LR...maybe some special FO tanks, jellyfish, cuttlefish tanks or something exotic like that. QT tanks - OK. But as an average reefer, I can tell you live rock is vital in a mainstream reef tank.